Wow just watching this now (I'm home sick this week). It is so disturbing!

One of the freaky things about it is that a lot of the first person accounts are just reminding me so much of a job I had years ago. Not an MLM, thank god, but a place that used a lot of these same tactics and was very controlling, manipulative, and dishonest. And also induced employees to spend a lot of time and money on "trainings" that were promised to advance them in the company but were largely a way for management to make extra money and also to further indoctrinate people into their weird culture. I'm so glad I got away from that place but watching this doc is bringing back memories. I totally get how people get drawn into this.

Especially moms with young kids. They are so right that LuLaRoe preyed on SAHMs who were looking for a way to make money and also to feel confident and useful while also enabling them to care for their kids. I have an actual job that does this for me now and is a legitimate job for a real company where I get paid directly for my time and energy, not some weird pyramid scheme. It's so hard to find jobs like this that will enable you to be more present with your kids when they are young -- it took me three years of looking and trial and error to find my current situation and I still had to get very lucky to make it happen. So I really feel for these women.

Anyway, these people are trash. Ugh. Also these clothes are so cheap and ugly! I love a comfortable pair of leggings but I do not get the love for these prints or those dumb maxi skirts. So strange.

The idea that these women should bust their asses to make a successful business that they could then turn over to their husbands made me want to throw stuff at the screen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sis in law has fallen for a few of these (not LLR but probably because their startup was unusually high).

She was married to a guy in the military (he got out) and was the primary earner. They live in a conservative area so there's this constant pressure on women to stay home with their kids. But at least my ex BIL was never really stable in a job so my SIL was always the primary earner and didn't have the option to stay at home. She never got too deep into these but you can see why some women do.

MLMs target women with this guilt and pressure to stay at home. They sell them on this image of a lifestyle of a stay at home.mom who can still support their family and have the stuff they want for their kids but can't afford right now.

They also put out cult messages. Anyone who doesn't support your "business" doesn't support you and should be dropped. And if it's not working you're not trying hard enough so buy more and invest more. At some point sunk cost fallacy comes into play.

The truth is when you look at the stats 99% of people who do these lose money, pretty much across the board in every MLM.

It's very predatory and plays on the working mom guilt or financial pressure these SAHM feel in military or more conservative communities. They're huge in Utah, for instance.

I hear you and one thing I noted in the LuLaRich series that made me bristle were the women who wanted to get into LuLaRoe so they could “be a mom” …. As if moms who work outside the home are not. But anywho ….

I don’t feel sorry for these women. The fact is that there is fine print and the cost of entry - $5,000, $9,000, etc - is much less than say, starting a franchise or setting up your own clothing store. The catch is you need to sell the goods and this is so very, very basic. My kids are in Girl Scouts and sell cookies. It’s the exact same principle. Troops buy cookies and then have to offload them / sell them or they take a financial hit. My kids get this at 10 years old. These women are old enough to figure it out.

Presumably your kids aren't given wet, moldy, or stinky cookies and, when they complain and want a refund or exchange for goods they can actually sell, they aren't given the run around or had the return policy changed despite their contracts.

I saw a Vice documentary that came out a few years ago (had some of the same women in it) and I think it actually made a very clear case for why the company was predatory and decietful. And a clear pyramid scheme.

There's also a very good John Oliver segment on MLMs. It doesn't name LLR but its clear LLR is a.pyramid scheme and a scam based on their definition from the show. I also didn't know about all of these other MLMs they covered in the segment. More people need to hear about this so they don't get suckered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sis in law has fallen for a few of these (not LLR but probably because their startup was unusually high).

She was married to a guy in the military (he got out) and was the primary earner. They live in a conservative area so there's this constant pressure on women to stay home with their kids. But at least my ex BIL was never really stable in a job so my SIL was always the primary earner and didn't have the option to stay at home. She never got too deep into these but you can see why some women do.

MLMs target women with this guilt and pressure to stay at home. They sell them on this image of a lifestyle of a stay at home.mom who can still support their family and have the stuff they want for their kids but can't afford right now.

They also put out cult messages. Anyone who doesn't support your "business" doesn't support you and should be dropped. And if it's not working you're not trying hard enough so buy more and invest more. At some point sunk cost fallacy comes into play.

The truth is when you look at the stats 99% of people who do these lose money, pretty much across the board in every MLM.

It's very predatory and plays on the working mom guilt or financial pressure these SAHM feel in military or more conservative communities. They're huge in Utah, for instance.

I hear you and one thing I noted in the LuLaRich series that made me bristle were the women who wanted to get into LuLaRoe so they could “be a mom” …. As if moms who work outside the home are not. But anywho ….

I don’t feel sorry for these women. The fact is that there is fine print and the cost of entry - $5,000, $9,000, etc - is much less than say, starting a franchise or setting up your own clothing store. The catch is you need to sell the goods and this is so very, very basic. My kids are in Girl Scouts and sell cookies. It’s the exact same principle. Troops buy cookies and then have to offload them / sell them or they take a financial hit. My kids get this at 10 years old. These women are old enough to figure it out.

Presumably your kids aren't given wet, moldy, or stinky cookies and, when they complain and want a refund or exchange for goods they can actually sell, they aren't given the run around or had the return policy changed despite their contracts.

I saw a Vice documentary that came out a few years ago (had some of the same women in it) and I think it actually made a very clear case for why the company was predatory and decietful. And a clear pyramid scheme.

Anonymous wrote:Loved this series and thank you to OP who recommended it!

I couldn't believe the particularly sinister "retire your husband" detail. The company truly wanted the family dependent on them so they would have to go deeper and deeper. That is just pure evil.

I also couldn't believe the Tijuana weight loss clinic detail?!?!?!? OMG that was disturbing. And clearly Deanna or whoever the main LuLaRoe founder was gained all of the weight back.

Is that evil or the guiding principle of most sales organizations where men dominate? Most partners at my firm (men) are thrilled to have the stay at home wife. Either they’re stay at home wives, sometimes without kids, or they have high-powered careers. Partners go to these lavish boondoggles, partner meetings, annual retreats …. maybe a touch classier than LuLaRoe but the exact same paradigm. LuLaRoe is selling the same ideal; you only need one income to live very, very well.

Loved this series and thank you to OP who recommended it!

I couldn't believe the particularly sinister "retire your husband" detail. The company truly wanted the family dependent on them so they would have to go deeper and deeper. That is just pure evil.

I also couldn't believe the Tijuana weight loss clinic detail?!?!?!? OMG that was disturbing. And clearly Deanna or whoever the main LuLaRoe founder was gained all of the weight back.

Anonymous wrote:My sis in law has fallen for a few of these (not LLR but probably because their startup was unusually high).

She was married to a guy in the military (he got out) and was the primary earner. They live in a conservative area so there's this constant pressure on women to stay home with their kids. But at least my ex BIL was never really stable in a job so my SIL was always the primary earner and didn't have the option to stay at home. She never got too deep into these but you can see why some women do.

MLMs target women with this guilt and pressure to stay at home. They sell them on this image of a lifestyle of a stay at home.mom who can still support their family and have the stuff they want for their kids but can't afford right now.

They also put out cult messages. Anyone who doesn't support your "business" doesn't support you and should be dropped. And if it's not working you're not trying hard enough so buy more and invest more. At some point sunk cost fallacy comes into play.

The truth is when you look at the stats 99% of people who do these lose money, pretty much across the board in every MLM.

It's very predatory and plays on the working mom guilt or financial pressure these SAHM feel in military or more conservative communities. They're huge in Utah, for instance.

I hear you and one thing I noted in the LuLaRich series that made me bristle were the women who wanted to get into LuLaRoe so they could “be a mom” …. As if moms who work outside the home are not. But anywho ….

I don’t feel sorry for these women. The fact is that there is fine print and the cost of entry - $5,000, $9,000, etc - is much less than say, starting a franchise or setting up your own clothing store. The catch is you need to sell the goods and this is so very, very basic. My kids are in Girl Scouts and sell cookies. It’s the exact same principle. Troops buy cookies and then have to offload them / sell them or they take a financial hit. My kids get this at 10 years old. These women are old enough to figure it out.

My sis in law has fallen for a few of these (not LLR but probably because their startup was unusually high).

She was married to a guy in the military (he got out) and was the primary earner. They live in a conservative area so there's this constant pressure on women to stay home with their kids. But at least my ex BIL was never really stable in a job so my SIL was always the primary earner and didn't have the option to stay at home. She never got too deep into these but you can see why some women do.

MLMs target women with this guilt and pressure to stay at home. They sell them on this image of a lifestyle of a stay at home.mom who can still support their family and have the stuff they want for their kids but can't afford right now.

They also put out cult messages. Anyone who doesn't support your "business" doesn't support you and should be dropped. And if it's not working you're not trying hard enough so buy more and invest more. At some point sunk cost fallacy comes into play.

The truth is when you look at the stats 99% of people who do these lose money, pretty much across the board in every MLM.

It's very predatory and plays on the working mom guilt or financial pressure these SAHM feel in military or more conservative communities. They're huge in Utah, for instance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could have watched an episode of just the dude who worked for them for 14 months and wanted to watch the IRS takedown from a nearby patio sipping vodka and cran. 😄

Yes! Love him! Unintentionally hilarious!

And he quoted a Star Trek commander! And he’ll NEVER listen to Kelly Clarkson again. Ever.

That guy was the absolute best.

PP and also Becca Peter, the anti-Lularoe, Etsy seller and whistleblower came out the heroine!

Oh! And do you think the now-divorced military spouse who now lives in Washington brought about/filed THE big lawsuit vs LLR? The way the documentarian asked her about being a resident of WA and what she knows about this lawsuit?

I thought the awkwardness she portrayed was to signal that she is the litigant.

Just went to her website (not linking here, lest I be accused of spamming) but:
Why yes, we are the washi tape shop vaguely alluded to in LuLaRich!
New styles (especially Christmas and Halloween) are on the way!


And apparently she's big in the pole vaulting community?

Can anyone explain to me what all this washi tape is being used for??

It’s used to decorate things like journals or photo albums. When my daughter’s pencils were being stolen at school, the teacher suggested we washi tape them. That allowed her to easily catch the culprit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't the college and universities where these women paid tuition and took out student loans also considered MLM? That's the ultimate marketing scam and pyramid scheme. LLR was successful because these college educated SAHM moms didn't have careers but had a lot of college debt. I hear stories like this all the time, where a college grad in debt will go further in debt to pay off the student loan debt.

I didn't hear any of the women talking about being in debt from student loans. I assume a lot of them went to BYU or state schools. It seemed like their husbands were supporting their families and this was for "extras."

Women who actually need money get real jobs.

So I can only give the example of the one woman I knew who did this, though from watching the documentary I think there may have been others in this position (I'm thinking of one who talked about how she worked in "corporate America," but found it difficult to balance once she had kids).

Anyway- the woman I know is college educated and was a paralegal at a law firm I used to work at. For reference, our paralegals usually made between 80k-100k. Her husband was a plumber. This was when I worked in NYC; they lived in a pretty far out suburb and she had a super long commute and young kids. I think in the beginning she brought in decent money and quit her paralegal job. I don't think she was fully replacing her salary, but they no longer had to pay for child care. Anyway, obviously the whole thing imploded; they sold their house and moved to a lower cost of living area, and she has since found a work from home job as a paralegal. I don't know if she lost money or how much. But it sounded to me from the documentary that they really appealed to this type of woman- educated and professional, but not high up enough to earn a ton of money or have much control over their schedule.

No, they generally were not educated and professional (maybe elementary teacher or floor nurse but not college professors or lawyers). They want women that don't want to "work outside the home" (even though they end up doing it to sell at vendor events), aren't educated enough to do research on the business model, and followers. Conservative religious , especially, Mormon wives end up trapped into MLM with the blessing of their church. Church benefits by keeping the women in line, by tying them to support from spouse, staying in church social circle since other wives are the customers, and too busy to get a real job to possibly have freedom.

So elementary school teachers and nurses aren’t educated?

Anonymous wrote:WTF their daughter (adopted) married their son?! LOL gross!

It was an adopted daughter that married a step brother. They were both adults when their parents married. They didn’t know each other growing up and weren’t raised as siblings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 37, I have a Facebook account, and I think I’ve only had 2 Facebook friends ever post about an MLM and no one ever bother me about them. I feel like maybe I dodged a bullet.

But I also feel like I’ve never seen anyone wearing those pants?

Me neither. In the neighborhood I lived in no one sold or wore the stuff. It think it was a little more a lower ses thing. Not trying to be a snob, just trying to explain what I see.

Not really. I live in a high SES neighborhood with a lot of SAHM’s. These parties are popular, but no one takes them seriously. People just do it for the social aspect and to make a bit of money hosting the parties. I know lots of people who have hosted parties, but none of them were interested in Teri g to do it as an actual job.

Same here. A few women into Cabi parties but mostly because they get free clothes, not as a reliable source of income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 37, I have a Facebook account, and I think I’ve only had 2 Facebook friends ever post about an MLM and no one ever bother me about them. I feel like maybe I dodged a bullet.

But I also feel like I’ve never seen anyone wearing those pants?

Me neither. In the neighborhood I lived in no one sold or wore the stuff. It think it was a little more a lower ses thing. Not trying to be a snob, just trying to explain what I see.

Not really. I live in a high SES neighborhood with a lot of SAHM’s. These parties are popular, but no one takes them seriously. People just do it for the social aspect and to make a bit of money hosting the parties. I know lots of people who have hosted parties, but none of them were interested in Teri g to do it as an actual job.

Anonymous wrote:I just came across the Wikipedia article on "Confidence trick" in another context. The six stages of a con have a lot of relevant elements:

In Confessions of a Confidence Man, Edward H. Smith lists the "six definite steps or stages of growth" of a confidence game.[7] He notes that some steps may be omitted.

1. Foundation work - Preparations are made in advance of the game, including the hiring of any assistants required and studying the background knowledge needed for the role.

2. Approach - The victim is approached or contacted.

3. Build-up - The victim is given an opportunity to profit from participating in a scheme. The victim's greed is encouraged, such that their rational judgment of the situation might be impaired.

4. Pay-off or convincer - The victim receives a small payout as a demonstration of the scheme's purported effectiveness.

5. The "hurrah" - A sudden manufactured crisis or change of events forces the victim to act or make a decision immediately. This is the point at which the con succeeds or fails. With a financial scam, the con artist may tell the victim that the "window of opportunity" to make a large investment in the scheme is about to suddenly close forever.

6. The in-and-in - A conspirator (in on the con, but assumes the role of an interested bystander) puts an amount of money into the same scheme as the victim, to add an appearance of legitimacy. This can reassure the victim, and give the con man greater control when the deal has been completed.

Fascinating!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could have watched an episode of just the dude who worked for them for 14 months and wanted to watch the IRS takedown from a nearby patio sipping vodka and cran. 😄

Yes! Love him! Unintentionally hilarious!

And he quoted a Star Trek commander! And he’ll NEVER listen to Kelly Clarkson again. Ever.

That guy was the absolute best.

PP and also Becca Peter, the anti-Lularoe, Etsy seller and whistleblower came out the heroine!

Oh! And do you think the now-divorced military spouse who now lives in Washington brought about/filed THE big lawsuit vs LLR? The way the documentarian asked her about being a resident of WA and what she knows about this lawsuit?

I thought the awkwardness she portrayed was to signal that she is the litigant.

Just went to her website (not linking here, lest I be accused of spamming) but:
Why yes, we are the washi tape shop vaguely alluded to in LuLaRich!
New styles (especially Christmas and Halloween) are on the way!


And apparently she's big in the pole vaulting community?

Can anyone explain to me what all this washi tape is being used for??