Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much of this is outside the scope of what the average person can understand. Most DCUMers wore masks on the street for 2 years during COVID…this board trends risk-averse, not even comfort with normal risk.

I happen to be on the more-than-not risk-taker side (I regularly dive with 14 ft sharks without a cage, for example) but I know some extreme risk takers and they just don’t have a sense of fear like normal people do.

IMO, they knew what could go wrong and went anyway. This is on them.

In good news, it was quick death. Talking to an old Navy diver friend of mine…back in the day when they were doing this stuff with diving bells, when a failure happens, it happens under so much pressure that the remains were sucked into the lines. Nothi left but gluey pulp. I find that a comfort. Hats off to the explorers…someone has to do it. I am not that person, but I admire the grit.

People who work on pediatric cancer wards have grit. Check-writing recreational thrill-seekers don’t.

As someone who worked on a pediatric cancer ward (and also wears masks in certain settings!) I appreciate you saying this.

Anonymous wrote:I’m reallllllyyyy annoyed that we as tax payers will be finding this rescue of irresponsible billionaires. I feel the same way about people who refuse to leave in wildfires and hurricanes. Why do we have to pay for you to be dumb? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I feel awful for the 19 year old who according to his aunt didn’t even want to go on this trip, but only did it for his father. Everyone else should have known better, because they were warned by all the experts in the field, but no. They knew better. Well, I guess not, and we get this bill!

I hate to break it to you but I could list a dozen other instances of disgusting wastes of taxpayer dollars than an exercise like this. Your anger is misplaced. If this makes you that mad, so some research and lobby against things that are constant drains on your tax dollars. (And no, this isn’t a political post about how people don’t deserve welfare or anything, I’m talking about things that are ridiculous regardless of what side of the aisle you’re on).

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Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

I’m not sure that’s true. The sub was manufactured somewhere (in the US)? The fact that the accident occurred in international waters isn’t necessarily the relevant fact. If I had a Ford Pinto that I took to Rwanda when I moved there and it blew up in Africa that doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be any jurisdiction to sue Ford (assuming they had no offices or place or business in Rwanda that would otherwise create jurisdiction).

The more I hear about this submersible the more it seems very clear to me that Stockton Rush was either a conman or a madman, and he very obviously misled his passengers as to the safety of the design and fabrication of the Titan - liability waiver be damned. He told one potential passenger who ultimately decided not to go that it was ‘as safe as crossing the street.’

The irony of this event is nearly as crushing as the psi endured by that submersible, and it pains to see how little man progresses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much of this is outside the scope of what the average person can understand. Most DCUMers wore masks on the street for 2 years during COVID…this board trends risk-averse, not even comfort with normal risk.

I happen to be on the more-than-not risk-taker side (I regularly dive with 14 ft sharks without a cage, for example) but I know some extreme risk takers and they just don’t have a sense of fear like normal people do.

IMO, they knew what could go wrong and went anyway. This is on them.

In good news, it was quick death. Talking to an old Navy diver friend of mine…back in the day when they were doing this stuff with diving bells, when a failure happens, it happens under so much pressure that the remains were sucked into the lines. Nothi left but gluey pulp. I find that a comfort. Hats off to the explorers…someone has to do it. I am not that person, but I admire the grit.

People who work on pediatric cancer wards have grit. Check-writing recreational thrill-seekers don’t.

+100. What's behind people trying to make them into heroes? What they did was purely for self, which they had every right to do, but making it into something else is a lie.

Anonymous wrote:So much of this is outside the scope of what the average person can understand. Most DCUMers wore masks on the street for 2 years during COVID…this board trends risk-averse, not even comfort with normal risk.

I happen to be on the more-than-not risk-taker side (I regularly dive with 14 ft sharks without a cage, for example) but I know some extreme risk takers and they just don’t have a sense of fear like normal people do.

IMO, they knew what could go wrong and went anyway. This is on them.

In good news, it was quick death. Talking to an old Navy diver friend of mine…back in the day when they were doing this stuff with diving bells, when a failure happens, it happens under so much pressure that the remains were sucked into the lines. Nothi left but gluey pulp. I find that a comfort. Hats off to the explorers…someone has to do it. I am not that person, but I admire the grit.

People who work on pediatric cancer wards have grit. Check-writing recreational thrill-seekers don’t.

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Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Was the CEO in fact wealthy? He sounded like a dreamer bordering on a con man and I don’t think had ever hit any home runs? Sounds like his wife’s family had money a few generations ago but no evidence they did now?

CEO descended from oil wealth (standard oil), wife from Macys wealth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m reallllllyyyy annoyed that we as tax payers will be finding this rescue of irresponsible billionaires. I feel the same way about people who refuse to leave in wildfires and hurricanes. Why do we have to pay for you to be dumb? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I feel awful for the 19 year old who according to his aunt didn’t even want to go on this trip, but only did it for his father. Everyone else should have known better, because they were warned by all the experts in the field, but no. They knew better. Well, I guess not, and we get this bill!

I think these are two vastly different things. I don't like tax payers funding billionaire rescue, but if you look at things like wildfires and hurricanes, it's a vastly different population being rescued. Often it is old and poor people who can't afford to just flee who settle in place and hope for the best, not people with unlimited resources to leave. Basically: a lot of them probably would leave if they could, but they don't have the funds. Look at Katrina for that. I wouldn't say they, "refused" to leave, but absent funding that was the reality and they bore the brunt of that suffering.

TOTALLY different than billionaire yahoos chasing an adrenaline fix.

I agree. Their estates can pay for the recovery/rescue of their folly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not read all 126 pages.

Do they know what day the implosion occurred? Do they think the people suffered?

So sad.

I heard an expert on TV say that they would have died instantaneously so wouldn’t have felt a thing. She also said that there wouldn’t be anything left of their bodies to recover.

How sad.
At the press conference held yesterday - I heard someone mention “recovery of the bodies” & wondered since the victims were killed in an implosion…..if there was any tangible body in tact to recover.

Because as was the case in the Challenger accident - there were no in tact bodies to recover afterward tragically.

I assume that is the case now.

Finally this story got the attention + coverage it deserved.

As well as the empathy.
Just because those lost at sea were billionaires, that didn’t mean the value (no pun) of their lives were any less.
These people were still human beings as all of us are.

They were parents, sons, spouses, etc.
They were someone’s good friend.

And they should never have been faulted for being adventurous & curious.
We do not place blame on astronauts who risk their lives by venturing into outer space…..
Look at how the Challenger’s last crew is remembered as being noble and brave.

Exploring the perimeters of our world takes courage - an excess amount of it.
Kudos to those w/the bravery to do so because their bravery allows the rest of us to learn more about the world we all are a part of.
And the images we are given from their adventures are truly breathtaking as well as priceless.

R.I.P. to all the five, very brave souls that were lost in this tragedy.
And may their legacy be remembered fondly. 🕊️

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not read all 126 pages.

Do they know what day the implosion occurred? Do they think the people suffered?

So sad.

I doubt they did. It's possible they heard some creaking sounds as the vessel gave up.

They didn’t “know” in the sense that once the implosion happened it happened so fast your brain literally couldn’t process it. But they did know they were descending too quickly and risking implosion or that they had an incursion of water in the hulk risking implosion because they were releasing ballast before they had reached the bottom and begun ascent. So they had warnings that they were in danger which is why they attempted to release ballast and either slow descent or begin assent before actually reaching Titanic. At a minimum, Rush and Nageolet knew they were in a dangerous situation in the minutes leading up to the implosion.

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Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

I’m not talking about the people who were customers. Sad but there are thousands more like them. I’m talking about the idiot who ignored the data he was given about the odds this thing would implode, fired the guy who told him about it, then kept selling tickets.

Not every one of those guys will want to be on board personally, and maybe the inevitable lawsuits will help them see safety as something other than waste.

Maybe? There are still idiot CEOs who just don’t care. I am sure the execs here were well aware of potential litigation. They proceeded anyway, and suing them into oblivion to support 6 generations is just gross.

Understanding the potential for litigation is different from seeing actual judgments. And if the executives knew they could be sued and we're still greedy enough to cut corners, then they definitely deserve it.

Spinning the purpose of litigation as “supporting generations” is super gross though.

Anonymous wrote:So much of this is outside the scope of what the average person can understand. Most DCUMers wore masks on the street for 2 years during COVID…this board trends risk-averse, not even comfort with normal risk.

I happen to be on the more-than-not risk-taker side (I regularly dive with 14 ft sharks without a cage, for example) but I know some extreme risk takers and they just don’t have a sense of fear like normal people do.

IMO, they knew what could go wrong and went anyway. This is on them.

In good news, it was quick death. Talking to an old Navy diver friend of mine…back in the day when they were doing this stuff with diving bells, when a failure happens, it happens under so much pressure that the remains were sucked into the lines. Nothi left but gluey pulp. I find that a comfort. Hats off to the explorers…someone has to do it. I am not that person, but I admire the grit.

This response is like a breath of fresh air to this thread.

Humans have risked their lives for exploration and adventure as long as we've been human. They aren't saints or villains. Just humans pushing boundaries.

It's ironic due to the tragedy that is the Titanic itself, but humans also love a good story.

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t know Titanic tourism was a thing.

Me either. I don't even really get the whole fascination with the Titanic. But go watch all the documentaries, they are free and you get a better view of it. RIP.

So much of this is outside the scope of what the average person can understand. Most DCUMers wore masks on the street for 2 years during COVID…this board trends risk-averse, not even comfort with normal risk.

I happen to be on the more-than-not risk-taker side (I regularly dive with 14 ft sharks without a cage, for example) but I know some extreme risk takers and they just don’t have a sense of fear like normal people do.

IMO, they knew what could go wrong and went anyway. This is on them.

In good news, it was quick death. Talking to an old Navy diver friend of mine…back in the day when they were doing this stuff with diving bells, when a failure happens, it happens under so much pressure that the remains were sucked into the lines. Nothi left but gluey pulp. I find that a comfort. Hats off to the explorers…someone has to do it. I am not that person, but I admire the grit.