Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But why did Larson lift the letter while pretending not to know about the kidney donation?
Why lift the letter of someone you want nothing to do with?
Seems sloppy and thoughtless...inviting trouble.

Because you can steal white people's property and get away with it, if you scream that anyone who objects to your plagiarism and poor ethics is a racist!
(BIPOC here)

I think Sonya knew Dawn to be a fundamentally nice person and never expected she’d even ask about it. When she was caught off-guard she made a crappy lie and it all spiraled out of control because she’s not as smart as she thought.

+1

I am an easygoing person and feel like it makes me a target for people like Sonya — and then the Sonyas of the world are surprised when I bare my teeth

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But why did Larson lift the letter while pretending not to know about the kidney donation?
Why lift the letter of someone you want nothing to do with?
Seems sloppy and thoughtless...inviting trouble.

Because you can steal white people's property and get away with it, if you scream that anyone who objects to your plagiarism and poor ethics is a racist!
(BIPOC here)

I think Sonya knew Dawn to be a fundamentally nice person and never expected she’d even ask about it. When she was caught off-guard she made a crappy lie and it all spiraled out of control because she’s not as smart as she thought.

Anonymous wrote:But why did Larson lift the letter while pretending not to know about the kidney donation?
Why lift the letter of someone you want nothing to do with?
Seems sloppy and thoughtless...inviting trouble.

Because you can steal white people's property and get away with it, if you scream that anyone who objects to your plagiarism and poor ethics is a racist!
(BIPOC here)

Anonymous wrote:The fact that student newspapers are publishing all these really uninformed hot takes is bothering me way too much than it should. I thought the youths were supposed to be alright!!!

https://www.thehofstrachronicle.com/category/editorials/2021/11/2/bad-art-friendsor-just-bad-people

https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2021/11/1/little-fires-everywhere/

"What the world learned from that fiasco is that everyone sucks and even grown adults in the professional sphere can be petty." Not sure this is true, but even if it is, that seems like a valid lesson. I'm going to be extra careful with what I say and do around friends to be sure I'm neither "cringe" nor falling into bad group think/ nastiness. Helpful to remember that just because we are adults, we can still fall into the pettiness traps.

My big take away from the "fiasco" is that you can't trust the NY Times.

Also, that modern narrative requires conflict, but the conflict can't be too obvious-- good (kidney donor) vs. bad (plagiarist and bad friend) isn't the kind of narrative that sells papers and gets you clicks. Writers will be less than honest about facts in order to make the conflict more modern and nuanced. LEss than honest means things like failing to mention that Kidney Foundation people want kidney donors to develop a support group on Facebook to make the donations successful and to get the word out about it --- and failing to mention that the kidney donor and the plagiarist had a long standing friendship and Dawn was addressing her 30 closest friends, not hundreds or thousands of acquaintances. That kind of information gives a fuller and more honest perspective of Dawn's motives, but that does not work in modern narrative because she just looks so much like an angel that the story is dull and childish. For the story to be compelling enough to read, Kolker had to quickly sketch Dawn as flawed. That works when he is wearing his novelist hat, but not when he is supposed to be wearing his journalist hat.

The fact that student newspapers are publishing all these really uninformed hot takes is bothering me way too much than it should. I thought the youths were supposed to be alright!!!

https://www.thehofstrachronicle.com/category/editorials/2021/11/2/bad-art-friendsor-just-bad-people

https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2021/11/1/little-fires-everywhere/

Sonya is a desperate grasping women with little talent and a mean streak. Nothing can change that fundamentally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't worry PPs -- the day DD's book deal is announced (and we know it is a matter of WHEN not if), we will be back in this thread, reviving it with big cheers.

Plus who knows what things will befall the CM and blue check careers in the meantime, I will also be here for that schadenfreude.

Eh I don't think anything will happen to Celeste or Roxane or Helen, unfortunately. They're much too convinced of their own goodness despite doing really terrible harm to not just Dorland but to the disabled, donor, and kidney transplant communities.

Well, they've been emboldened by lack of consequence, but Twitter never lets anything go forever. Eventually the cultural moment will change, and someone with the power to be accusatory will dig up these particular misdeeds or some other. All three have an arrogance enormously out of proportion to their talent. Probably if they are remembered at all in a few decades, it will just be for shit-talking on Twitter. At least Dawn Dorland still has a chance to write great fiction. Ng and Gay have already proven they lack the talent.

And I am here for ALL the mean 1-star Amazon reviews that bring up these exact issues when Ng publishes next.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't worry PPs -- the day DD's book deal is announced (and we know it is a matter of WHEN not if), we will be back in this thread, reviving it with big cheers.

Plus who knows what things will befall the CM and blue check careers in the meantime, I will also be here for that schadenfreude.

Eh I don't think anything will happen to Celeste or Roxane or Helen, unfortunately. They're much too convinced of their own goodness despite doing really terrible harm to not just Dorland but to the disabled, donor, and kidney transplant communities.

Well, they've been emboldened by lack of consequence, but Twitter never lets anything go forever. Eventually the cultural moment will change, and someone with the power to be accusatory will dig up these particular misdeeds or some other. All three have an arrogance enormously out of proportion to their talent. Probably if they are remembered at all in a few decades, it will just be for shit-talking on Twitter. At least Dawn Dorland still has a chance to write great fiction. Ng and Gay have already proven they lack the talent.

I would be unsurprised if someone made a movie literally about this, and that would be bad for all of those people

Anonymous wrote:Don't worry PPs -- the day DD's book deal is announced (and we know it is a matter of WHEN not if), we will be back in this thread, reviving it with big cheers.

Plus who knows what things will befall the CM and blue check careers in the meantime, I will also be here for that schadenfreude.

Eh I don't think anything will happen to Celeste or Roxane or Helen, unfortunately. They're much too convinced of their own goodness despite doing really terrible harm to not just Dorland but to the disabled, donor, and kidney transplant communities.

Don't worry PPs -- the day DD's book deal is announced (and we know it is a matter of WHEN not if), we will be back in this thread, reviving it with big cheers.

Plus who knows what things will befall the CM and blue check careers in the meantime, I will also be here for that schadenfreude.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Tweet crystallized what I felt was wrong about both GrubStreet and Castellani's letters.

I agree and this tweet is well put. I see our thread fading and that’s a shame. I think this dialogue is important snd we shouldn’t let off the pressure. Is Twitter still active on this?

It's pretty much died on all fronts. Celeste Ng, Roxane Gay, Helen Rosner and the rest, not to mention the actual GrubStreet folks, have pretty much come out of this completely unscathed and completely unashamed of their role in this.

Anonymous wrote:This Tweet crystallized what I felt was wrong about both GrubStreet and Castellani's letters.

I agree and this tweet is well put. I see our thread fading and that’s a shame. I think this dialogue is important snd we shouldn’t let off the pressure. Is Twitter still active on this?

This Tweet crystallized what I felt was wrong about both GrubStreet and Castellani's letters.

Oh I know he is gay. I just thought that the history was interesting.