Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:19     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.


Pretty sure police allegedly found their prints on the other side of the trail, implying they were at the end of the loop (traveling clockwise), not the beginning (counter-clockwise). So they had travelled 7 or so miles in the blazing sun.


That is the key. And now have removed it from their timeline. Hmmmmmmm.......


They have not issued any retraction of previous statements about the 8.5 mile trail that were based on prints. Hopefully someone asks at one of the updates if LE has changed their beliefs about the route the family took.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:18     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.


And to everyone who keeps saying “there’s easier ways to die than a horrible hike in 100 degree weather”-it could be that to save their families and friends extra sorrow, they really wanted it to look like heat stroke.

There were nicer hiking areas closer to their house than this one (this is being discussed on WS).

Instead they chose this trail, where they knew there would be no other people.


Of all the theories, this is the most far-fetched to me. I'd believe the alien theory before I would believe that their plan from the beginning was to hike 8 miles and die of heat stroke.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:18     Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
A hiker died this week in Utah's Mount Zion Park. Very similar conditions to this family - he was hiking for 9 miles, the weather was over 95F, and he suffered from heat exhaustion. An interesting point made was that the body shuts down when the internal temperature hits 103F. Its very likely that this CA family, which was hiking in temps nearly 10 degrees higher, suffered the same fate.

A hiker has died of suspected heat stroke in Zion National Park in Utah amid 95 degree heat, park officials have announced.

John Henry Wolfe, from Milwaukee, had reached the end of a strenuous nine mile canyon trail on Monday when he started complaining about exhaustion, a statement from the National Park Service said.
https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2021/08/31/prc-hiker-dies-from-apparent-heat-exhaustion-in-zion-national-park/#.YTEU_d8pDZs

Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:17     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.


And to everyone who keeps saying “there’s easier ways to die than a horrible hike in 100 degree weather”-it could be that to save their families and friends extra sorrow, they really wanted it to look like heat stroke.

There were nicer hiking areas closer to their house than this one (this is being discussed on WS).

Instead they chose this trail, where they knew there would be no other people.


What is "WS"?
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:16     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.


Pretty sure police allegedly found their prints on the other side of the trail, implying they were at the end of the loop (traveling clockwise), not the beginning (counter-clockwise). So they had travelled 7 or so miles in the blazing sun.


That is the key. And now have removed it from their timeline. Hmmmmmmm.......
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:16     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.


1.5 miles in and from the car isn't enough to kill everyone. One of the adults would have been able to make it back if this was the beginning of the trip. I would also love to know when the cell service stopped working. It presumably worked in the parking lot where they parked? So it's not as if you have to go all the way back to the car to make an emergency call?
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:14     Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Any photos of what the river looks like in relation to the trail? Seems like a no brainer to jump in if you were THAT overheated. Or maybe it looks toxic, green and nasty?

https://sierranewsonline.com/hiking-on-the-savage-lundy-trail/
Note this article was written before the 2018 fire but it does have some good pictures of the river at the bottom of the trail.


Interesting. "I would not want to do this hike on a warm day."
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:13     Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Any photos of what the river looks like in relation to the trail? Seems like a no brainer to jump in if you were THAT overheated. Or maybe it looks toxic, green and nasty?

https://sierranewsonline.com/hiking-on-the-savage-lundy-trail/
Note this article was written before the 2018 fire but it does have some good pictures of the river at the bottom of the trail.


Thanks for this link. The river does not look TOXIC (!!!!!) to me. Why is it so dangerous? Runoff from farms?

I love nature but this trail doesn't even look that pretty, certainly not worth treking through in 100 degree temps.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:08     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.



What is FA?
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:07     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I didn't read all of this thread but is it possible the dog drank toxic algae water, got sick, dad stayed behind with dog because he was already feeling effects of heat stroke and mom went to get help but also succumbed to the heat?


The mom really wasn't actually far from the group.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:06     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.


Pretty sure police allegedly found their prints on the other side of the trail, implying they were at the end of the loop (traveling clockwise), not the beginning (counter-clockwise). So they had travelled 7 or so miles in the blazing sun.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:05     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.


And to everyone who keeps saying “there’s easier ways to die than a horrible hike in 100 degree weather”-it could be that to save their families and friends extra sorrow, they really wanted it to look like heat stroke.

There were nicer hiking areas closer to their house than this one (this is being discussed on WS).

Instead they chose this trail, where they knew there would be no other people.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 14:04     Subject: What happened to this California family?
I didn't read all of this thread but is it possible the dog drank toxic algae water, got sick, dad stayed behind with dog because he was already feeling effects of heat stroke and mom went to get help but also succumbed to the heat?
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 13:59     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Removing that bit of the timeline makes me lean more towards fa. If they went down SL trail and only got 1.5 miles from car/trailhead it seems they didn't get to the river for the toxic algae or hike long enough for multiple cases of heat stroke.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2021 13:58     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.


Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.


Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.


You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.


That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.


I think PP has nailed it. This is more than just a hike that went awry. It was also poorly conceived and doesn’t make sense even if everything had gone right. Personally I’m more curious about the conception of the hike than what actually killed them, though we may never really know.


What was poorly conceived? You don't know their plans for that day.


The plan that LE refer to of hiking 8.5 miles in the heat that has been well established for that area on that day. I swear, you're all "only what LE says" and then as soon as someone quotes what LE says you disagree with it if it doesn't fit your preconception.