Anonymous
02/16/2024 08:33
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Two very lackluster franchises. No buzz at all and zero hardcore support.
The Orioles and Ravens are the only area teams with inherent value. Orioles due to iconic stadium and Ravens due to fantastic management
The Nats have a lot of support and fans
The Nats HAD a lot of support and fans. Unfortunately they were all fair-weather. Also, people come to DC to work, not to live. They come to the DMV and remain fans of teams from wherever they are from.
No one who is a Commanders fan. The DMV is not an area that appreciates American football. The Commanders could leave tomorrow and no one would care.
As for Leonsis, if he doesn’t get his new PY arena, he’s probably going to be taking the Wiz and Caps elsewhere.
I guess you are forgetting the decades of sellouts and decades ling waiting list for tickets pre-Dan Snyder. The region was passionate about the football team until Snyder killed it. It won't take much to get it back. The Bullets/Wizards and Caps were always the easier ticket, particularly when they played at the Capital Centre. The downtown move boosted Wizards attendance and Ovi put Caps ticket sales over the top. Ovi will retire soon, the Wizards are still irrelevant and Ted is basically a medicore at best owner.
Anonymous
02/16/2024 07:40
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Two very lackluster franchises. No buzz at all and zero hardcore support.
The Orioles and Ravens are the only area teams with inherent value. Orioles due to iconic stadium and Ravens due to fantastic management
The Nats have a lot of support and fans
The Nats HAD a lot of support and fans. Unfortunately they were all fair-weather. Also, people come to DC to work, not to live. They come to the DMV and remain fans of teams from wherever they are from.
No one who is a Commanders fan. The DMV is not an area that appreciates American football. The Commanders could leave tomorrow and no one would care.
As for Leonsis, if he doesn’t get his new PY arena, he’s probably going to be taking the Wiz and Caps elsewhere.
Anonymous
02/16/2024 04:23
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:
Two very lackluster franchises. No buzz at all and zero hardcore support.
The Orioles and Ravens are the only area teams with inherent value. Orioles due to iconic stadium and Ravens due to fantastic management
The Nats have a lot of support and fans
Anonymous
02/14/2024 15:01
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Louise already stopped it in the Senate. I think she agrees with you. This is a horrible deal for Virginians. If it is such a nobrainer deal, then Ted should go to the banks and get the financing for it himself.
She hasn't stopped it yet. She's only said publicly when asked that she doesn't support it. The Bill needs to make it to her committee for her to be able to stop it since she is the chair of the Finance and Appropriations Committee.
Anonymous
Anonymous
02/14/2024 14:30
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Virginia could make monumental indemnifying Virginia a condition of the bonds. They'd still be backed by Virginia, but Virginia would have the right to go after monumental in the event of a short fall. All states should do that when teams offer up ridiculous economic analysis to support new stadiums
So then Virginia would own two lackluster franchises that no one from DC or MD would ever attend. Whoopie!
Anonymous
02/14/2024 14:29
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Louise already stopped it in the Senate. I think she agrees with you. This is a horrible deal for Virginians. If it is such a nobrainer deal, then Ted should go to the banks and get the financing for it himself.
Anonymous
02/14/2024 14:05
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Virginia could make monumental indemnifying Virginia a condition of the bonds. They'd still be backed by Virginia, but Virginia would have the right to go after monumental in the event of a short fall. All states should do that when teams offer up ridiculous economic analysis to support new stadiums
Sure, they can do that, but that does not absolve Virginia of the risk and it's also not the typical turn of events for a full faith and credit to kick in. First, the regular revenue streams would be collected to pay debt service, second usually Monumental would be on the hook, and if they cannot pay then the full faith and credit would kick in. If Monumental cannot pay, what difference does an indemnification make? You cannot collect money that isn't there.
The full faith and credit of Virginia is an unconditional guarantee, it is used to market the bonds as less risky and thus pay a lower interest rate. It should not be used very often. Mortgage backed securities on HUD loans were backed by the full faith and credit of the United States and people used to joke, they're a sure thing, the country would need to go backrupt for these bonds to fail.... Just because you don't think it could ever be possible doesn't mean it cannot be possible. I have yet to hear from anyone on the governor's or Monumental's teams that is an actual public finance underwriter or attorney. Or from a rating agency. We have a potential $5 billion dollar, tax dollar deal here, with random people who are in the GA voting on it who have zero idea what's going on and what it means. Youngkin is a salesman. If he thinks he's got this all worked out, bring out of the public finance team and have them speak.
It's an unconditional guarantee, but NBA teams are worth hundreds of millions and so is the land. If Leonsis is so confident in his economists' predictions, let him put his money where his mouth is
Anonymous
02/14/2024 14:03
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Virginia could make monumental indemnifying Virginia a condition of the bonds. They'd still be backed by Virginia, but Virginia would have the right to go after monumental in the event of a short fall. All states should do that when teams offer up ridiculous economic analysis to support new stadiums
Couldn't Monumental just transfer the assets of the company (teams, IP, broadcast rights, etc) to another shell company? You can't get blood from a stone.
The real way to do this is to make Ted Leonis (and his subsequent estate) indemnify the state of Virginia for the bond payments. Make it a personal guarantee.
Anonymous
02/14/2024 13:50
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Virginia could make monumental indemnifying Virginia a condition of the bonds. They'd still be backed by Virginia, but Virginia would have the right to go after monumental in the event of a short fall. All states should do that when teams offer up ridiculous economic analysis to support new stadiums
Sure, they can do that, but that does not absolve Virginia of the risk and it's also not the typical turn of events for a full faith and credit to kick in. First, the regular revenue streams would be collected to pay debt service, second usually Monumental would be on the hook, and if they cannot pay then the full faith and credit would kick in. If Monumental cannot pay, what difference does an indemnification make? You cannot collect money that isn't there.
The full faith and credit of Virginia is an unconditional guarantee, it is used to market the bonds as less risky and thus pay a lower interest rate. It should not be used very often. Mortgage backed securities on HUD loans were backed by the full faith and credit of the United States and people used to joke, they're a sure thing, the country would need to go backrupt for these bonds to fail.... Just because you don't think it could ever be possible doesn't mean it cannot be possible. I have yet to hear from anyone on the governor's or Monumental's teams that is an actual public finance underwriter or attorney. Or from a rating agency. We have a potential $5 billion dollar, tax dollar deal here, with random people who are in the GA voting on it who have zero idea what's going on and what it means. Youngkin is a salesman. If he thinks he's got this all worked out, bring out of the public finance team and have them speak.
Anonymous
02/14/2024 13:33
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Virginia could make monumental indemnifying Virginia a condition of the bonds. They'd still be backed by Virginia, but Virginia would have the right to go after monumental in the event of a short fall. All states should do that when teams offer up ridiculous economic analysis to support new stadiums
Anonymous
02/14/2024 13:31
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Anonymous wrote:It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Thank you for spelling this out so clearly. I think many don’t realize that ALL VA TAXPAYERS will be on the hook for this.
And as more info comes out, it becomes increasingly clear that the revenue projections are delusional at best and that it’s going to cost much more than $2B.
Anonymous
02/14/2024 13:15
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
Two very lackluster franchises. No buzz at all and zero hardcore support.
The Orioles and Ravens are the only area teams with inherent value. Orioles due to iconic stadium and Ravens due to fantastic management
Anonymous
02/14/2024 13:14
Subject: Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard
It passed the house of delegates and now goes to the state senate. I hope Louise can stop it over there.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
The key phrase in the financing is :”the full faith and credit”. This is a term of art in public finance which means Youngkin wants to pledge the full faith and credit of Virginia towards payment of the bonds (assuming general obligation bonds). This is VERY important because that essentially means that Virginia is promising to use whatever money it has to pay the debt service on the bonds to bond holders and cannot simply default or refuse to pay should the proposed revenue stream (ticket sales, sales tax, property tax, etc) not raise enough at any time to pay the debt service.
Furthermore, this means Virginia would literally need to go bankrupt as an entire state before those bonds could default. This also means every single Virginia tax payer’s money is on the line, no matter where you live in Virginia. The federal government put its full faith and credit behind Fannie Mae issued bonds in the 2000s, and look how that turned out. It’s the main reason the fed had to bail out the banks.
This is serious, and we have a bunch of elected clowns in both parties who don’t seem to really understand the niche of public finance.
Anonymous