Anonymous
Post 03/26/2019 16:42     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
One thing some of you apparently do not know or do not remember is that when colleges began recruiting and admitting more women and then more underrepresented minority students, they all did so by expanding overall enrollment, so that the new admits did not displace white males and legacies. That practice has continued, but now because they increased enrollment back then, there are even more legacy applicants, including the children and grandchildren of the first wave of women and minority students.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2019 00:04     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”


Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?


Because most school double dip. URMs generally fit into more than one bucket. Thats how people may will on affirmative action but lose anyway. As a top 5 URMs alum, my URM classmates made sure their kids aiming for top schools fit into multiple buckets... Actually, let me correct myself, I do not know anyone in my network of any race that did not make sure their kid fit in multiple buckets or had multiple hooks. The group was very successful at top schools.


+1. The URMs at my daughter's school that just got into top 15s were either full-pay rich/legacy or recruited athletes.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 13:14     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Yale just rescinded admission for one student caught up in cheating scandal, but no name released:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6847633/Yale-University-rescinds-admission-one-student-implicated-college-admissions-scandal.html


It’s not fair that the student wasn’t named, if the Loughlin daughters and others have been outed.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 12:30     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
I graduated from what many considered one of the top universities in the country. Lets just say that some of the idiots I had the pleasure of attending with shattered the my previously held belief that the higher ed process is a meritocracy. Money can't fix stupid, but enough of it sure as hell can get you admitted into a school of your choice.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 11:17     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Did anyone see the Dr. Dre story??? 70 Million....

https://jezebel.com/dr-dre-didnt-commit-a-crime-to-get-his-daughter-into-u-1833530596


He was an idiot for posting about his daughter's acceptance, but I honestly have no problem with the kid of a donor of that magnitude getting special treatment. A lot of USC students will directly benefit from this new academic program.


If you feel that way, they should just have an auction for a percentage of the incoming class. Put it for sale to the highest bidder. Much more transparent and honest.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 11:14     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:Did anyone see the Dr. Dre story??? 70 Million....

https://jezebel.com/dr-dre-didnt-commit-a-crime-to-get-his-daughter-into-u-1833530596


He was an idiot for posting about his daughter's acceptance, but I honestly have no problem with the kid of a donor of that magnitude getting special treatment. A lot of USC students will directly benefit from this new academic program.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 11:12     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”


Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?


Because most school double dip. URMs generally fit into more than one bucket. Thats how people may will on affirmative action but lose anyway. As a top 5 URMs alum, my URM classmates made sure their kids aiming for top schools fit into multiple buckets... Actually, let me correct myself, I do not know anyone in my network of any race that did not make sure their kid fit in multiple buckets or had multiple hooks. The group was very successful at top schools.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 11:07     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Its sad that people spend so much time putting down "brown applicants" when the people taking their kids places are doing so in an open legal manner (large donations/high profile parents speakers) or illegal manner, bribery. The people on this site may be educated but they are not strategic thinker because whether they want to admit it or not their lunch has been eaten. This is America and there are no shortcuts... You can't have a "nice, meaningful job living in a nice neighborhood making decent money" and think that your kid will have the same opportunity as a wealthy kid where the parents had tough jobs or inherited $$. ...Of course rich kids are going to have more advantages and opportunity. That is the capitalistic system. But instead of talking about that...the cushy people on this site are angry that poor URMs get to go to schools that are still majority white. It is impossible for parents here to see that their personal choices have limited the opportunites that they can afford to give their children. Sad!






The problem is that the schools don't admit that they are swayed by large donations. We all strongly suspect they are, but it's hard to say for sure and to what extent. Whereas the use of affirmative action in admissions is easier to gauge.


Its not hard at all to gauge and it is very obvious. People just do not want to acknowledge that what wealthy families can do and do do for their kids is "more/better" than what one can provide in a "nice neighborhood with a meaningful job." This entire forum is filled with people not realizing that parents make actual choices that have consquences for their children. Even if educational opportunities are taken from "brown applicants" they are unlikely to be bestowed on middle of the road applicants coming from comfortable middle of the road places. Those applicants, like their parents, are less likely to standout in a pack. The spots will more likely go to rich internationals, wealthy americans, athletes and those darn legacy without the legacy advantage that have all kinds of social capital and institutional knowledge to game the system without the official tip.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 10:58     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”


Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?


"relaxed admissions standards?"

You mean "PP's admission's standards" not the ones the college uses.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 10:55     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Did anyone see the Dr. Dre story??? 70 Million....

https://jezebel.com/dr-dre-didnt-commit-a-crime-to-get-his-daughter-into-u-1833530596
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 10:49     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Not sure if this was already posted:

Mystery parent paid $6.5 million to get kids into top universities as part of admissions scandal

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-college-admissions-bribe-fixer-20190324-story.html
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 09:08     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”


Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?


It is all going to go, which is going to affect legacy admits and athletes the most. From the Economist this weekend:

..."But the likeliest impetus for change is the affirmative-action trial. 'At present the universities can say they take into account lots of factors, including legacies,” says Mr Kahlenberg. “If you no longer have them for minorities then it becomes harder to justify.” That, indeed, is what happened at the University of California and at Texas a&m: when racial preferences were ended, legacy preferences looked even more egregiously unfair, and were binned."

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/03/23/why-legacy-places-should-be-abolished (must register to read up to 5 free articles)
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 08:45     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:Sigh.

Take a typical college campus: If you take away spots in the freshman class reserved for athletes, development cases, legacies, special cases, you’ve probably taken away a third of your spots,” said Mark Sklarow, chief executive officer of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. “It is, unfortunately, one of the facts of college admission. Colleges try to create a freshman class beyond just the academic numbers.”


Why did he leave out all of the spots reserved for URMs.....and the relaxed admission standards that accompany those spots?
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 08:24     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Because at any decent school the ultimate authority to admit comes from the admissions office, not the coaches. So the admissions office was either complicit, willfully blind or just negligent.


The admissions offices are staffed by a combination of young admin types who are just chasing all the paperwork and process and older admin types that just follow the process. The Dean and associate dean spend their time trying to recruit and worrying about the yield numbers. Its not a high powered operation and I can't imagine anyone other than a Dean questioning someone from the athletics department.



I just can't believe the audacity of this whole scheme. How could they feel so confident that the admissions office wouldn't double check the applicant's record. I can see how they assumed that the admissions office would just go by the coach's word, but there's no way anyone can know for sure. I just can't believe the level of risk that Singer, the coaches and parents were taking.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2019 08:16     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:Its sad that people spend so much time putting down "brown applicants" when the people taking their kids places are doing so in an open legal manner (large donations/high profile parents speakers) or illegal manner, bribery. The people on this site may be educated but they are not strategic thinker because whether they want to admit it or not their lunch has been eaten. This is America and there are no shortcuts... You can't have a "nice, meaningful job living in a nice neighborhood making decent money" and think that your kid will have the same opportunity as a wealthy kid where the parents had tough jobs or inherited $$. ...Of course rich kids are going to have more advantages and opportunity. That is the capitalistic system. But instead of talking about that...the cushy people on this site are angry that poor URMs get to go to schools that are still majority white. It is impossible for parents here to see that their personal choices have limited the opportunites that they can afford to give their children. Sad!






The problem is that the schools don't admit that they are swayed by large donations. We all strongly suspect they are, but it's hard to say for sure and to what extent. Whereas the use of affirmative action in admissions is easier to gauge.