Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you pick Berkeley over Harvard Yale and Princeton for CS?

If CS is what your child definitely wants to do and its a good fit. Yes

My kid chose Berkeley over Caltech and Yale for CS.

If in-state, that makes sense.

He was a TJ grad.

Anonymous wrote:Would you pick Berkeley over Harvard Yale and Princeton for CS?

No way! Princeton for sure over Harvard and Berkeley for CS.

Harvard for sure over P/UCB if the kid is unsure.

Of course, if Berkeley is in-state, they go for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you pick Berkeley over Harvard Yale and Princeton for CS?

If CS is what your child definitely wants to do and its a good fit. Yes

My kid chose Berkeley over Caltech and Yale for CS.

If in-state, that makes sense.

Anonymous wrote:
For MIT grads, their stats in Computer Software are low $60,000 to high $160,000 with the bonus mean of $30,345. Their tops didn't hit $400,000 - at least not in 2018. Of course, this doesn't prevent $400,000, or a pie in the sky, in any other year.

https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

The list of employers here is very instructive, go to page 16 to see where EECS graduates are employed, here it is:

Ab Initio Software LLC, Akamai Technologies, Animet, AppDynamics, Apple, AppNexus, ASAPP, Autodesk, Bloomberg, Cisco, Cisco Meraki, Cruise, EdX, Facebook, Fire Hose Games, GoDaddy, Google, Google via Adecco, Kensho Technologies, Keybase, Krypt Co., Microsoft, Oracle, Palantir Technologies, Perch, Posh Development, Quora, Quorum Analytics, Rev, Riot Games, Rubrik, Stripe, SumoLogic, Terrain Data, Twitch Interactive, Ultimate Software

Apart from a few FAANG names there, all of those other companies, 80% of them in fact, will hire CS graduates from state colleges, the MIT grads at those companies will be working along state college grads, sometimes they are on different teams, for instance the MIT grad may get to work on core product development while the BU grad may work on product consulting & implementation. Both will have rewarding careers, it's a question of whether as a software engineer you wish to work on product development or not, in that case you need to acquire the skills needed to break into that, all it takes is learn the math & theory needed, which you can if you have the IQ and work ethics. If you can't then you go do consulting & implementation, work on your presentation skills and leadership skills, and one day you may be the product development manager leading the MIT grads.

Anonymous wrote:Where Top 3 Tech CEO's of today went to school for undergraduate engineering and their global rankings:

1. Google - Sundar Pichai: IIT Chennai, ranked #275 (followed by a Stanford masters degree)

2. Microsoft - Satya Nadella: Manipal Institute of technology, ranked #1056 (followed by masters from UW-Milwaukee - rank #300, and MBA from Chicago-Booth)

3. IBM - Arvind Krishna: IIT Kanpur, ranked #350 (followed by MS, PhD UIUC)

Right, so according to DCUM experts these gentlemen couldn't get into Top 10 or Ivy's for undergraduate and so they were doomed for life to sit in that dark cubicle earning $75k. Oh, and look at that Microsoft CEO who did his Masters in Engineering from lowly UW-Milwaukee, isn't that just a low ranked regional center of U-Wisconsin .. LOL

What business these people have in getting jobs at these companies, let alone rise to the top. Folks, get a grip, a HS may not get into some school because they are too young to realize their true potential, many are focused on sports, video games, and just plain enjoying being teens. There is a reason why majors don't need to be declared before Junior year in college, at age 20, that's when they truly start realizing their capabilities and what they want to do with it. Shame on those of you who try to insult the kids who couldn't get into UVA or UMD as incapable of doing anything better in their life. You must be a really sad parent. Some kids who go to any state school will do very well, if they realize their capabilities later in life, some won't, and some who go to top schools will drop out, burn out, or will not materialize the promise they once showed. That's life.

This argument is a bit disingenuous.
- The three gentlemen you name probably did not have access to HYP or any American schools at the time they went to college (Ask me how I know). I'm about the same age as them and I know of very few kids (those who had uncles or aunts in the US) that came to the US. This was pre-Y2K/pre-Internet/pre-outsourcing days. No one cared about India. I recall reading articles by western "experts" about how Indians are not good at management, etc.
- Any of them (and thousands of others) could have gotten into any of the top schools if they had applied. As an undergrad, there was close to zero financial aid/scholarships and most parents could not afford to send their kids to study here. When I was applying for grad school back in the 90's, the cost of applying to Yale and one other school cost me a month's salary. I had to borrow money from the bank at 22% interest rate (zero financial aid for business school) to come study here. Lots of barriers.
- Most of us looked at grad school as an easy way to enter the US. Didn't care which school since I didn't really need the education. It was just the easiest way in. The less pedigree the university had, the easier it was to get in.
- While the IITs may be ranked lower in whatever ranking system these numbers came out of, their admit rates even back then were way lower than any of the top schools in the US. 80% of the TJ kids will not be able to get into the IITs today. There are more IITs now but back then, I think it was 1600 kids admitted out of 3-400 thousand applicants (today it's about 10,000 out of 1.3 million applying). A friend of mine who was ranked in the 1500s (and therefore was "only" able to get into their chemistry program (vs. engineering) is to this day one of the smartest people I have come across - never really studied, always getting into trouble with the teachers, but always got the best grades.
- Almost ALL are admitted on academic merit, and most can run circles around the best grads coming out of the top US schools.

Having said that, I'd agree with your basic premise - anyone can be successful if they put their mind to it and the school they go to does not matter. Going to a higher ranked school is about increasing the odds of success and giving them a headstart. I'd gladly pay full price to send my kid to CMU for CS over MD (if the get in, of course) because... why not?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you pick Berkeley over Harvard Yale and Princeton for CS?

If CS is what your child definitely wants to do and its a good fit. Yes

My kid chose Berkeley over Caltech and Yale for CS.

I can imagine financial reasons forcing the decision. Caltech, Yale, Harvard aren't worth $100,000 in student loans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you pick Berkeley over Harvard Yale and Princeton for CS?

If CS is what your child definitely wants to do and its a good fit. Yes

My kid chose Berkeley over Caltech and Yale for CS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where Top 3 Tech CEO's of today went to school for undergraduate engineering and their global rankings:

1. Google - Sundar Pichai: IIT Chennai, ranked #275 (followed by a Stanford masters degree)

2. Microsoft - Satya Nadella: Manipal Institute of technology, ranked #1056 (followed by masters from UW-Milwaukee - rank #300, and MBA from Chicago-Booth)

3. IBM - Arvind Krishna: IIT Kanpur, ranked #350 (followed by MS, PhD UIUC)

Right, so according to DCUM experts these gentlemen couldn't get into Top 10 or Ivy's for undergraduate and so they were doomed for life to sit in that dark cubicle earning $75k. Oh, and look at that Microsoft CEO who did his Masters in Engineering from lowly UW-Milwaukee, isn't that just a low ranked regional center of U-Wisconsin .. LOL

What business these people have in getting jobs at these companies, let alone rise to the top. Folks, get a grip, a HS may not get into some school because they are too young to realize their true potential, many are focused on sports, video games, and just plain enjoying being teens. There is a reason why majors don't need to be declared before Junior year in college, at age 20, that's when they truly start realizing their capabilities and what they want to do with it. Shame on those of you who try to insult the kids who couldn't get into UVA or UMD as incapable of doing anything better in their life. You must be a really sad parent. Some kids who go to any state school will do very well, if they realize their capabilities later in life, some won't, and some who go to top schools will drop out, burn out, or will not materialize the promise they once showed. That's life.

IIT is like Harvard/MIT in India. I know some Indian colleagues who constantly remind everyone they went to IIT. You just proved elite college does matter.

That's like saying the Top engineering school in any country is like their Harvard, does that make equal to Harvard, no it doesn't, they are still ranked #275 and #350, and #1056 globally. That's where they are ranked qualitatively. Elite schools matter in the head of those stuck on prestige to feel good about themselves, like yourself, others place themselves above all that and get what they want.

My kid's at an ivy CS program. We never considered the graduates' placement outcome. Ivy was pretty much the cost of room and board. At the next tier down below ivies, it was $50,000+ per year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you pick Berkeley over Harvard Yale and Princeton for CS?

Yale: Possibly. Princeton: Unlikely. Harvard: no.

As almost 100% should pick Harvard over UCB.

Can't imagine someone turning down Yale for UCB - except for financial reasons. But this also applies to Harvard.

Anonymous wrote:Where Top 3 Tech CEO's of today went to school for undergraduate engineering and their global rankings:

1. Google - Sundar Pichai: IIT Chennai, ranked #275 (followed by a Stanford masters degree)

2. Microsoft - Satya Nadella: Manipal Institute of technology, ranked #1056 (followed by masters from UW-Milwaukee - rank #300, and MBA from Chicago-Booth)

3. IBM - Arvind Krishna: IIT Kanpur, ranked #350 (followed by MS, PhD UIUC)

Right, so according to DCUM experts these gentlemen couldn't get into Top 10 or Ivy's for undergraduate and so they were doomed for life to sit in that dark cubicle earning $75k. Oh, and look at that Microsoft CEO who did his Masters in Engineering from lowly UW-Milwaukee, isn't that just a low ranked regional center of U-Wisconsin .. LOL

What business these people have in getting jobs at these companies, let alone rise to the top. Folks, get a grip, a HS may not get into some school because they are too young to realize their true potential, many are focused on sports, video games, and just plain enjoying being teens. There is a reason why majors don't need to be declared before Junior year in college, at age 20, that's when they truly start realizing their capabilities and what they want to do with it. Shame on those of you who try to insult the kids who couldn't get into UVA or UMD as incapable of doing anything better in their life. You must be a really sad parent. Some kids who go to any state school will do very well, if they realize their capabilities later in life, some won't, and some who go to top schools will drop out, burn out, or will not materialize the promise they once showed. That's life.

IIT is like Harvard/MIT in India. I know some Indian colleagues who constantly remind everyone they went to IIT. You just proved elite college does matter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can count on 2 hands the CS grads making $400k base directly out of undergrad, and no CS grad is going to be happy with $60k right out of school. That was a starting salary 25 years ago

Sounds like they have to settle for $65k median according to these reports, these schools are in the Top 100 list.

See here: https://career.sites.clemson.edu/data_analytics/2019-2020.php

Doesn't this refute the ridiculous claim that there is no difference in CS starting salary between top school and lower tier graduates?

It sure does

https://capd.mit.edu/resources/student-outcomes-and-salaries

go to page 9

CS degree median $118,000. So almost double MIT over Clemson. Oh, and that does not include the median bonus of $40,000 (for those that received one).

Only $118000? What a dispointment! Where are those with 400k ?

PP here. I never commented on the $400K. However that being the median certainly doesn't prevent it, and in fact supports the obvious point that half make more than that. Maths and whatnot.

For MIT grads, their stats in Computer Software are low $60,000 to high $160,000 with the bonus mean of $30,345. Their tops didn't hit $400,000 - at least not in 2018. Of course, this doesn't prevent $400,000, or a pie in the sky, in any other year.

https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

Anonymous wrote:Would you pick Berkeley over Harvard Yale and Princeton for CS?

If CS is what your child definitely wants to do and its a good fit. Yes

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can count on 2 hands the CS grads making $400k base directly out of undergrad, and no CS grad is going to be happy with $60k right out of school. That was a starting salary 25 years ago

Sounds like they have to settle for $65k median according to these reports, these schools are in the Top 100 list.

See here: https://career.sites.clemson.edu/data_analytics/2019-2020.php

Doesn't this refute the ridiculous claim that there is no difference in CS starting salary between top school and lower tier graduates?

It sure does

https://capd.mit.edu/resources/student-outcomes-and-salaries

go to page 9

CS degree median $118,000. So almost double MIT over Clemson. Oh, and that does not include the median bonus of $40,000 (for those that received one).

Only $118000? What a dispointment! Where are those with 400k ?

400k is probably the tops with the lows of $60,000. That's why the median is about $118,000.

Anonymous wrote:Where Top 3 Tech CEO's of today went to school for undergraduate engineering and their global rankings:

1. Google - Sundar Pichai: IIT Chennai, ranked #275 (followed by a Stanford masters degree)

2. Microsoft - Satya Nadella: Manipal Institute of technology, ranked #1056 (followed by masters from UW-Milwaukee - rank #300, and MBA from Chicago-Booth)

3. IBM - Arvind Krishna: IIT Kanpur, ranked #350 (followed by MS, PhD UIUC)

Right, so according to DCUM experts these gentlemen couldn't get into Top 10 or Ivy's for undergraduate and so they were doomed for life to sit in that dark cubicle earning $75k. Oh, and look at that Microsoft CEO who did his Masters in Engineering from lowly UW-Milwaukee, isn't that just a low ranked regional center of U-Wisconsin .. LOL

What business these people have in getting jobs at these companies, let alone rise to the top. Folks, get a grip, a HS may not get into some school because they are too young to realize their true potential, many are focused on sports, video games, and just plain enjoying being teens. There is a reason why majors don't need to be declared before Junior year in college, at age 20, that's when they truly start realizing their capabilities and what they want to do with it. Shame on those of you who try to insult the kids who couldn't get into UVA or UMD as incapable of doing anything better in their life. You must be a really sad parent. Some kids who go to any state school will do very well, if they realize their capabilities later in life, some won't, and some who go to top schools will drop out, burn out, or will not materialize the promise they once showed. That's life.

Oh the Real Moms of DC: Prestige Hunters are NOT going to like this perspective.