Anonymous wrote:

We are learning that biology isn’t really binary. There are people who are X, XX, XXX, XY, XXY and probably more. So while I personally get frustrated with the drama surrounding announcements like this, it is true that there are many of us walking around who simply are not binary XX and XY and that has to have its effects on the individuals who are different.

The greater DNA testing grows, the more we learn that we almost all have genetic and chromosomal variations of all sorts that affect us on a spectrum.

+1, but I would add that we're only beginning to understand not only genetic and chromosomal variations, but also hormonal variations. There is so. so. much. that we don't know about how the particular wash of hormones a fetus is exposed to can impact sex and gender identity.

There are also a ton of "correlations" that have not been fully explored, like why there seem to be a lot of FAAB individuals who are both trans and have PCOS, or why there are more trans Aspies than cis Aspies.

It's not simple, and there are still a lot of unknowns.

We are learning that biology isn’t really binary. There are people who are X, XX, XXX, XY, XXY and probably more. So while I personally get frustrated with the drama surrounding announcements like this, it is true that there are many of us walking around who simply are not binary XX and XY and that has to have its effects on the individuals who are different.

The greater DNA testing grows, the more we learn that we almost all have genetic and chromosomal variations of all sorts that affect us on a spectrum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Excellent and informative post, thank you. May I ask another question? It's going to sound stupid, but this is one of the things I am having trouble wrapping my mind around. The question involves the present trans identity versus the person we knew in the past as a non-trans person. If an adult declares himself/herself/theirself as transgender, whether that is the traditional or non-traditional presentation, does that have any uniform meaning in terms of their life up until that point? In reading about "deadnaming" and thinking about the traditional understanding of a Caitlyn Jenner model of a trans person, prior to transitioning, the trans person was living a life in pain, constrained by a gender assignment that did not match their true selves. But is that always true? Using Elliot as an example, was Elliot always Elliot? Did Elliot star in Juno because that is who Ellen really was?

It is easy for any normal, decent person to treat a trans person respectfully in the present. My struggle is processing a transgender identity in connection with past associations with the person before transition. I hope this isn't offensive, because it is not meant to be.

You quoted me so I want to reply so you don't feel ignored, but I'm a cis hetero woman so I don't think I'm the right one to answer your question. From my understanding on the outside though, I'd say that yes Elliot starred in Juno because essentially who Elliot is now is who he always was, just with a different name/outward identity. Remember there is the added nuance that the actor in Juno was, well, acting. I don't think the concept of a name being dead means the person wants their past life to be dead too? That said, I'd imagine there are some people who do want a concrete separation though? Particularly if their former identity was associated with trauma? I think like most things in this discussion, there isn't a black and white answer.

I think the reconciliation of a past vs. present person is a really interesting conversation, not a stupid question at all. I think about myself; let's say my older sister transitioned to a male, would I feel like I lost my childhood sister or would I think of him the same way I'd think of my sister if she was blonde for 30 years and then went brunette? I consider myself pretty liberal and accepting, but it's easier to accept a theoretical situation than to deal with the reality when it happens in your life. I'm sure there are lots of books written by siblings in that exact situation. Or parents.

I hope someone with direct experience can chime in to answer your question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people who push back on all the trans coming out articles, I have to believe that for the vast majority of them, they would not give 2 farts about their neighbor, coworker, etc being a trans person. They wouldn't stay up wondering all these "questions" and would treat them with respect, etc.....but for some reason they tend to get up in arms whenever trans people get attention for being trans. That seems to be a big part of what bothers them. And I can't for the life of me figure out why except maybe they resent that they don't get attention for living their lives, so what makes trans people/gay people/ whatever so special?

It bears repeating that maybe instead of wondering where your attention/medal/parade/movement is, be happy that you have never been in a position where you needed one.

I don’t think people are jealous of the attention... I think they are tired of being condescended to about not keeping up with the “right” terminology, being called names for asking questions, being accused of not being woke enough, being told they should be up to date on all of this but “look it up; it’s not my job to educate you.” I agree with the first part of your post, though.

Like so many things, any hint of error can be taken as condescension from another. It’s an internal problem aimed outwardly.

Yeah, maybe you are right. I think all of these folks who are DCUMers might want to take a good, hard look at ways they are likely super condescending to others in the world who are less worldly, educated, etc. They are not used to being the butt of it but rather at the top of the heap of superiority and smugness. But they don't have a leg to stand on for not liking being talked down to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people who push back on all the trans coming out articles, I have to believe that for the vast majority of them, they would not give 2 farts about their neighbor, coworker, etc being a trans person. They wouldn't stay up wondering all these "questions" and would treat them with respect, etc.....but for some reason they tend to get up in arms whenever trans people get attention for being trans. That seems to be a big part of what bothers them. And I can't for the life of me figure out why except maybe they resent that they don't get attention for living their lives, so what makes trans people/gay people/ whatever so special?

It bears repeating that maybe instead of wondering where your attention/medal/parade/movement is, be happy that you have never been in a position where you needed one.

I don’t think people are jealous of the attention... I think they are tired of being condescended to about not keeping up with the “right” terminology, being called names for asking questions, being accused of not being woke enough, being told they should be up to date on all of this but “look it up; it’s not my job to educate you.” I agree with the first part of your post, though.

Like so many things, any hint of error can be taken as condescension from another. It’s an internal problem aimed outwardly.

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what it means to identify female or male (if someone isn't talking about body parts)? Are there aspects to life that are inherently female or inherently male aside from biology?

Anonymous wrote:
Excellent and informative post, thank you. May I ask another question? It's going to sound stupid, but this is one of the things I am having trouble wrapping my mind around. The question involves the present trans identity versus the person we knew in the past as a non-trans person. If an adult declares himself/herself/theirself as transgender, whether that is the traditional or non-traditional presentation, does that have any uniform meaning in terms of their life up until that point? In reading about "deadnaming" and thinking about the traditional understanding of a Caitlyn Jenner model of a trans person, prior to transitioning, the trans person was living a life in pain, constrained by a gender assignment that did not match their true selves. But is that always true? Using Elliot as an example, was Elliot always Elliot? Did Elliot star in Juno because that is who Ellen really was?

It is easy for any normal, decent person to treat a trans person respectfully in the present. My struggle is processing a transgender identity in connection with past associations with the person before transition. I hope this isn't offensive, because it is not meant to be.

Anonymous wrote:
I went to Smith in the early aughts, so I know all about butch lesbians. I don't think the "disappearance" of them is that complicated, it's just society evolving. You think a butch lesbian now being transgender is pigeonholing because you are picturing the more limited, "old" view of what transgender meant (examples like say Caitlyn Jenner). When in reality the modern label of transgender is meant to be more inclusive, more the Eliot Page way of being more "non-binary" and "pansexual" and physically looking and dressing like either or.

It's as if a former butch lesbian saying they are now transgender is not saying, "I'm a woman becoming a man." But rather, "transgender encompasses all of these "non-traditional" presentations." I can be a FTM in 2020 without growing out my facial year, without binding my breasts. Dressing more traditionally male can be "enough" to be transgender in 2020.