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Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Yup, perfect.

Oh really? What would you say about making The Bell Curve a required reading and discussion, and labeling anyone who balks at it “not open minded and intellectually curious”

Nailed it, PP.

I’d throw in the FBI violent crime statistics for good measure. Let’s really discuss race and hold nothing back.

Just more evidence of the dire effects of systemic racism.

So how is "systemic racism made me to it" any different from "the devil made me do it?"
Committing crimes is a dire effect of systemic racism? Are our expectations that low? How is that not itself a racist assumption to claim that someone of a certain race who has been a victim of systemic racism has no choice but to commit crime? Really? There is no agency or personal responsibility in this at all to do the law-abiding thing? Mind boggling. And insulting.

There can be both systematic racism AND personal responsibility for committing crimes, for goodness sakes. No one is saying that someone subject to systemic racism has no choice but to commit crimes. The difference is that if you don't recognize systemic racism, you look at differences in crime rates and decide that black people people must be more prone to crime, whereas if you acknowledge systemic racism you understand that there are broader trends that shape people's lives in different ways and it has nothing to do with black people being inherently violent or crime-prone or otherwise fundamentally different from white people.

yall can take this woke/liberal/SJW bs out of here

people seriously blaming away criminal behavior because of racisim

what the actual f

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The "book" is basically

white people are always racist

black people can't be racist ever

Yep. That is the summary.

Which is a shame. In contrast my organization has had some short Virtual trainings that a corporate diversity trainer does and they are VERY well done. She is relatable, uses more neutral language (everyone needs to “X” vs just “White people need to...”). And definitely comes at it from a sense that seems to convey “hey we are all good faith and nice people here, but sometimes we do some hurtful things accidentally without realizing it. Let me tell you about what some of those are to help make it easier to avoid those unintended slip ups”.

+2 The bolded is basically what my (black) son stated when he handed me (white mom) the book to read. You don't really need to know any more than that. Buy the book, open it a few times and bend some pages so it looks like you've read it, and then nod, nod, nod in meetings where the book is discussed. Say as many mea culpas as appropriate.

I agree with another poster that the backlash from all of this is going to be intense. Not just whites but Hispanics, Asians, Jewish, you name it.

Oh your poor son.

Don't feel sorry for my son, sweetie. He is at a Top 10 university with a 3.95 gpa. He knows BS when he reads it.

If he gave it to you to read, he’s trying to send a message...not subtly, and you aren’t getting it. Poor kid.

He gave it to me to read because we often switch books. He reads a lot of trash and he is never afraid to tell me his opinion when he does. I get that your agenda is to castigate and malign regardless of consequences. I also get that you're feeling insecure and angry so you're lashing out. I think you need to talk to your therapist about it.

Does he have a black parent too? What did that person think about the book?

I am curious about this, too.

Well, his birth parents, each is black, are each in prison so I am sure that they embrace the book wholeheartedly because they never miss an opportunity to be enabled.

Our son is in contact with his black maternal grandmother, however, and she thinks the book is "trash." She has very little tolerance for people with a sense of entitlement and for people who use race as their weapon of choice for taking the easy path. She is an elder in her church and is very well-respected if that matters. I doubt that you care about that.

Just think how racist you are being by presuming that because our son is black that he must think that all white people are racist. Seems like you're the pots calling the kettles...black.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Yup, perfect.

Oh really? What would you say about making The Bell Curve a required reading and discussion, and labeling anyone who balks at it “not open minded and intellectually curious”

Nailed it, PP.

I’d throw in the FBI violent crime statistics for good measure. Let’s really discuss race and hold nothing back.

Just more evidence of the dire effects of systemic racism.

So how is "systemic racism made me to it" any different from "the devil made me do it?"
Committing crimes is a dire effect of systemic racism? Are our expectations that low? How is that not itself a racist assumption to claim that someone of a certain race who has been a victim of systemic racism has no choice but to commit crime? Really? There is no agency or personal responsibility in this at all to do the law-abiding thing? Mind boggling. And insulting.

Well, to start, the devil really isn’t a thing. And systemic racism is.

Why do you think there is a disparity in crime statistics?

That’s just your opinion. I hope you don’t find out the hard way that you are wrong about the devil.

Haha this person is arguing there is a devil but there is no systematic racism. That is Silly, crazy stupid.

They're equally unfalsifiable - in other words, religious- explanations. At least people who believe in demons don't pretend they're being intellectually rigorous. With the increase in secularism, some people got into crystals and some people got into this.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Yup, perfect.

Oh really? What would you say about making The Bell Curve a required reading and discussion, and labeling anyone who balks at it “not open minded and intellectually curious”

Nailed it, PP.

I’d throw in the FBI violent crime statistics for good measure. Let’s really discuss race and hold nothing back.

Just more evidence of the dire effects of systemic racism.

So how is "systemic racism made me to it" any different from "the devil made me do it?"
Committing crimes is a dire effect of systemic racism? Are our expectations that low? How is that not itself a racist assumption to claim that someone of a certain race who has been a victim of systemic racism has no choice but to commit crime? Really? There is no agency or personal responsibility in this at all to do the law-abiding thing? Mind boggling. And insulting.

Well, to start, the devil really isn’t a thing. And systemic racism is.

Why do you think there is a disparity in crime statistics?

That’s just your opinion. I hope you don’t find out the hard way that you are wrong about the devil.

Haha this person is arguing there is a devil but there is no systematic racism. That is Silly, crazy stupid.

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

Why? Because you said so? I make my own reading selections, thank you. And I view this as a boring waste of time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

I don’t agree with the author’s definition of racism and therefore don’t support the notion that all white people are racists.

.

+1. It’s all BS from which the author is laughing at you all the way to the bank.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Yup, perfect.

Oh really? What would you say about making The Bell Curve a required reading and discussion, and labeling anyone who balks at it “not open minded and intellectually curious”

Nailed it, PP.

I’d throw in the FBI violent crime statistics for good measure. Let’s really discuss race and hold nothing back.

Just more evidence of the dire effects of systemic racism.

So how is "systemic racism made me to it" any different from "the devil made me do it?"
Committing crimes is a dire effect of systemic racism? Are our expectations that low? How is that not itself a racist assumption to claim that someone of a certain race who has been a victim of systemic racism has no choice but to commit crime? Really? There is no agency or personal responsibility in this at all to do the law-abiding thing? Mind boggling. And insulting.

Well, to start, the devil really isn’t a thing. And systemic racism is.

Why do you think there is a disparity in crime statistics?

That’s just your opinion. I hope you don’t find out the hard way that you are wrong about the devil.

Anonymous wrote:“ Why do you think there is a disparity in crime statistics? ”

Not PP but I think it is because more crime is committed. Now if we are talking about WHY it is committed that comes back to systemic disadvantages against black people largely amounting to lower education and economic opportunities. Racist policies of the past have lingering impact and the results of black people being disproportionately lower income create a self reinforcing cycle.

NP but isn't this also true for low income non-white immigrants who come here with an added obstacle- no English fluency.

My school required staff to choose from a list of 6 young adult books that deal with racism/the experience of BIPOC (both non-fiction and fiction were included). We then broke into groups by book and discussed. I like our approach better than requiring one book be read. Staff can now use these books to recommend to students or discuss from a YA point of view.

Anonymous wrote:“ Why do you think there is a disparity in crime statistics? ”

Not PP but I think it is because more crime is committed. Now if we are talking about WHY it is committed that comes back to systemic disadvantages against black people largely amounting to lower education and economic opportunities. Racist policies of the past have lingering impact and the results of black people being disproportionately lower income create a self reinforcing cycle.

A main reason for disparity in crime statistics is that black neighborhoods are over-policed, and white people are under-charged.

“ Why do you think there is a disparity in crime statistics? ”

Not PP but I think it is because more crime is committed. Now if we are talking about WHY it is committed that comes back to systemic disadvantages against black people largely amounting to lower education and economic opportunities. Racist policies of the past have lingering impact and the results of black people being disproportionately lower income create a self reinforcing cycle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "book" is basically

white people are always racist

black people can't be racist ever

Yep. That is the summary.

Which is a shame. In contrast my organization has had some short Virtual trainings that a corporate diversity trainer does and they are VERY well done. She is relatable, uses more neutral language (everyone needs to “X” vs just “White people need to...”). And definitely comes at it from a sense that seems to convey “hey we are all good faith and nice people here, but sometimes we do some hurtful things accidentally without realizing it. Let me tell you about what some of those are to help make it easier to avoid those unintended slip ups”.

+2 The bolded is basically what my (black) son stated when he handed me (white mom) the book to read. You don't really need to know any more than that. Buy the book, open it a few times and bend some pages so it looks like you've read it, and then nod, nod, nod in meetings where the book is discussed. Say as many mea culpas as appropriate.

I agree with another poster that the backlash from all of this is going to be intense. Not just whites but Hispanics, Asians, Jewish, you name it.

Oh your poor son.

Don't feel sorry for my son, sweetie. He is at a Top 10 university with a 3.95 gpa. He knows BS when he reads it.

If he gave it to you to read, he’s trying to send a message...not subtly, and you aren’t getting it. Poor kid.

He gave it to me to read because we often switch books. He reads a lot of trash and he is never afraid to tell me his opinion when he does. I get that your agenda is to castigate and malign regardless of consequences. I also get that you're feeling insecure and angry so you're lashing out. I think you need to talk to your therapist about it.

Does he have a black parent too? What did that person think about the book?

I am curious about this, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Yup, perfect.

Oh really? What would you say about making The Bell Curve a required reading and discussion, and labeling anyone who balks at it “not open minded and intellectually curious”

Nailed it, PP.

I’d throw in the FBI violent crime statistics for good measure. Let’s really discuss race and hold nothing back.

Just more evidence of the dire effects of systemic racism.

So how is "systemic racism made me to it" any different from "the devil made me do it?"
Committing crimes is a dire effect of systemic racism? Are our expectations that low? How is that not itself a racist assumption to claim that someone of a certain race who has been a victim of systemic racism has no choice but to commit crime? Really? There is no agency or personal responsibility in this at all to do the law-abiding thing? Mind boggling. And insulting.

Well, to start, the devil really isn’t a thing. And systemic racism is.

Why do you think there is a disparity in crime statistics?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Yup, perfect.

Oh really? What would you say about making The Bell Curve a required reading and discussion, and labeling anyone who balks at it “not open minded and intellectually curious”

Nailed it, PP.

I’d throw in the FBI violent crime statistics for good measure. Let’s really discuss race and hold nothing back.

Just more evidence of the dire effects of systemic racism.

So how is "systemic racism made me to it" any different from "the devil made me do it?"
Committing crimes is a dire effect of systemic racism? Are our expectations that low? How is that not itself a racist assumption to claim that someone of a certain race who has been a victim of systemic racism has no choice but to commit crime? Really? There is no agency or personal responsibility in this at all to do the law-abiding thing? Mind boggling. And insulting.