Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting to see a survey to determine what % of the population sees cheating as always wrong no matter what vs. those who aren't surprised and accept to some degree that cheating is going to happen if one spouse cuts the other one off from sex and intimacy. My guess is the extremes on this board are not representative of widespread opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To “Mrs. What if this happened to your daughter, lady?”

It can’t happen to my daughter because she has an IQ above 3 which means she understands what happens if she stops having sex. My daughter has also been raised with enough common sense and gratuitude that she would send her husband’s AP a nice gift every year on their wedding anniversary as a Thank You for preventing divorce and allowing happiness in their marriage.

Sorry to hear about YOUR daughter.

Not the PP to whom you respond but.... My exDH cheated on me. When I found out and confronted him he told me a believable story about the cheating (one time relationship during overseas work trip), which I later found out was an extensive lie which he had continued to tell in and out of therapy while begging me to stay with him and my continuing to have sex with him as we always had.

While we were dating, I was very explicit with my DH that I was only interested a monogamous relationship. After his first “affair” when he begged me not to end the relationship, I made it clear again that I was only interested in monogamy and didn’t want to stay together unless he could be monogamous. He could have expressed at any time that he did not feel the same. Instead he lied to me, had our second planned children with me and then lied to me some more.

I finally figured out what he was really doing after some serious sleuthing. What he did to me — there isn’t even a word to express it. It was like a life theft. He lied to me in a way that stole my agency about what my own life would be. The sex part - continuing to have sex with me on terms that I thought were monogamous - that honestly felt like a kind of rape in the sense that it was a kind of sex I hadn’t agreed to. In the law, there is a concept of rape by fraud and what he did really fits in with that idea even though it is not prosecuted (but neither was marital rape for a long time) I deal with a kind of complex PTSD from the whole situation. It has really done damage psychologically to me - my sense of safety is non-existent as well as my desire to form new relationships with anyone. (If he, who appeared so normal and trustworthy, was lying so deeply, what does that say about our ability to know anyone?)

I wouldn’t wish what happened to me and my family on my worst enemy and certainly not on my daughter, let alone train her to expect or tolerate it. That is a big part of why I ended it. I didn’t want my son to grow up to be like him. I didn’t want my daughter to grow up to accept being abused in that way.

You, PP, actually scare me. Your anger and disrespect of women are palpable. I feel sorry for your wife and children. You are actively teaching your daughter that she can’t say no to sex and your son that women should not say no to sex with him.

And so, the cycle of sexual violence continues.

Anonymous wrote:
To “Mrs. What if this happened to your daughter, lady?”

It can’t happen to my daughter because she has an IQ above 3 which means she understands what happens if she stops having sex. My daughter has also been raised with enough common sense and gratuitude that she would send her husband’s AP a nice gift every year on their wedding anniversary as a Thank You for preventing divorce and allowing happiness in their marriage.

Sorry to hear about YOUR daughter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To “Mrs. What if this happened to your daughter, lady?”

It can’t happen to my daughter because she has an IQ above 3 which means she understands what happens if she stops having sex. My daughter has also been raised with enough common sense and gratuitude that she would send her husband’s AP a nice gift every year on their wedding anniversary as a Thank You for preventing divorce and allowing happiness in their marriage.

Sorry to hear about YOUR daughter.

Not the PP to whom you respond but.... My exDH cheated on me. When I found out and confronted him he told me a believable story about the cheating (one time relationship during overseas work trip), which I later found out was an extensive lie which he had continued to tell in and out of therapy while begging me to stay with him and my continuing to have sex with him as we always had.

While we were dating, I was very explicit with my DH that I was only interested a monogamous relationship. After his first “affair” when he begged me not to end the relationship, I made it clear again that I was only interested in monogamy and didn’t want to stay together unless he could be monogamous. He could have expressed at any time that he did not feel the same. Instead he lied to me, had our second planned children with me and then lied to me some more.

I finally figured out what he was really doing after some serious sleuthing. What he did to me — there isn’t even a word to express it. It was like a life theft. He lied to me in a way that stole my agency about what my own life would be. The sex part - continuing to have sex with me on terms that I thought were monogamous - that honestly felt like a kind of rape in the sense that it was a kind of sex I hadn’t agreed to. In the law, there is a concept of rape by fraud and what he did really fits in with that idea even though it is not prosecuted (but neither was marital rape for a long time) I deal with a kind of complex PTSD from the whole situation. It has really done damage psychologically to me - my sense of safety is non-existent as well as my desire to form new relationships with anyone. (If he, who appeared so normal and trustworthy, was lying so deeply, what does that say about our ability to know anyone?)

I wouldn’t wish what happened to me and my family on my worst enemy and certainly not on my daughter, let alone train her to expect or tolerate it. That is a big part of why I ended it. I didn’t want my son to grow up to be like him. I didn’t want my daughter to grow up to accept being abused in that way.

You, PP, actually scare me. Your anger and disrespect of women are palpable. I feel sorry for your wife and children. You are actively teaching your daughter that she can’t say no to sex and your son that women should not say no to sex with him.

And so, the cycle of sexual violence continues.

Anonymous wrote:To “Mrs. What if this happened to your daughter, lady?”

It can’t happen to my daughter because she has an IQ above 3 which means she understands what happens if she stops having sex. My daughter has also been raised with enough common sense and gratuitude that she would send her husband’s AP a nice gift every year on their wedding anniversary as a Thank You for preventing divorce and allowing happiness in their marriage.

Sorry to hear about YOUR daughter.

NP. I would tell my son that he is worthy of a life lived openly and honestly. I would tell him that he needed to find the courage to address the problem openly and respectfully with his wife. I would tell him that he owes it to himself to tell his wife he is unwilling to stay in a sexless marriage and he and she can either create a mutually enjoyable sex life, he can seek sex outside the marriage on mutually agreeable terms or they can divorce. I would tell him that seeking sex in secret outside the marriage “for the sake of the kids” was really a disservice to the children - better that he models respectful conflict resolution, honesty and resilience than secrecy, manipulation and false facades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you this clueless in real life too? OK, I'll explain it to you like I'm talking to a child. What do I have? I have an AP and we provide each other with what is missing from our marriages. Sex.
Why don't I tell her? Are you serious? Do you really not understand why I would throw my AP in her face? OK, since you don't seem to have a grasp on reality, I'll spell it out for you. She would react the same as I suspect you would react. And yes, I'm making a few assumptions here. One being that you are female, married, and would not take it so well to find out your husband has an AP. This would also lead to a huge blow-up, her demanding to know who this woman is that has destroyed her marriage, and... oh come on, you know the rest of this story. Why the F would I subject myself to that? That is all besides the fact that I owe it to my AP to not reveal our arrangement, the same as she owes it to me. Lastly, since you really don't get it, I don't want anything to cause my arrangement to end.

NP. You sound so selfish and horrible. You owe your AP loyalty but not your wife? That is true mental gymnastics. I wonder how you would feel if someone treats your daughter the way you treat your wife.

If my hypothetical daughter, as a grown adult treated her husband as her mother treats me, I'd expect no different from her hypothetical husband. I'd still have her back of course, no matter what.

I'm loyal to my wife. I'm not cheating her out of anything she doesn't want. She can resume our sex life anytime she likes and I'd be 100% loyal to her, with a sad farewell to my AP. Again, like talking to a child, what do you not understand about the loyalty I also owe to my AP? The two are mutually exclusive. It's not an either/or situation.

The bigger question is, what took you so damn long to comment, Mrs. What if this happened to your daughter, lady? And right back at you, what if this happened to your son? His wife totally cuts him off. No amount of talking makes any difference. She is done and she is perfectly content with her decision. She doesn't have a problem with it so won't even consider counseling. Marriage be damned. Don't even bring it up again.

What advice would you offer your son? Or would you just toss him some Astro Glide (I know you have some) and a towel and tell him to take care of it himself? You're right, I am a horrible person. I'm in good company here.

Anonymous wrote:

Are you this clueless in real life too? OK, I'll explain it to you like I'm talking to a child. What do I have? I have an AP and we provide each other with what is missing from our marriages. Sex.
Why don't I tell her? Are you serious? Do you really not understand why I would throw my AP in her face? OK, since you don't seem to have a grasp on reality, I'll spell it out for you. She would react the same as I suspect you would react. And yes, I'm making a few assumptions here. One being that you are female, married, and would not take it so well to find out your husband has an AP. This would also lead to a huge blow-up, her demanding to know who this woman is that has destroyed her marriage, and... oh come on, you know the rest of this story. Why the F would I subject myself to that? That is all besides the fact that I owe it to my AP to not reveal our arrangement, the same as she owes it to me. Lastly, since you really don't get it, I don't want anything to cause my arrangement to end.

NP. You sound so selfish and horrible. You owe your AP loyalty but not your wife? That is true mental gymnastics. I wonder how you would feel if someone treats your daughter the way you treat your wife.

Are you this clueless in real life too? OK, I'll explain it to you like I'm talking to a child. What do I have? I have an AP and we provide each other with what is missing from our marriages. Sex.
Why don't I tell her? Are you serious? Do you really not understand why I would throw my AP in her face? OK, since you don't seem to have a grasp on reality, I'll spell it out for you. She would react the same as I suspect you would react. And yes, I'm making a few assumptions here. One being that you are female, married, and would not take it so well to find out your husband has an AP. This would also lead to a huge blow-up, her demanding to know who this woman is that has destroyed her marriage, and... oh come on, you know the rest of this story. Why the F would I subject myself to that? That is all besides the fact that I owe it to my AP to not reveal our arrangement, the same as she owes it to me. Lastly, since you really don't get it, I don't want anything to cause my arrangement to end.

Anonymous wrote:The PP above is right about two things: it's far more common than people realize and these sexless marriages do become happier and more friendly once the sexual tension of initiation and rejection are gone.

It sounds screwy but it's true. The people objecting have no idea because they aren't in this situation