Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has done kumon and aops (both 3-4 grade levels ahead) but won’t do Algebra I until 8th grade in school. We think it’s important to stay on a steady, only slightly accelerated path in school and learn to work deeper on that level. It’s not a race. These kids are young. Kids need to learn how to learn. Some kids need to learn how to be advanced and show it while working at all levels.

Just wondering why you put child in only 3rd and 4th. Did you find school teaching in math to be lacking?

In both programs child was/is working 3 to 4 grade levels ahead.

Your kid is doing or will be doing AoPS Algebra, which is very rigorous, around 5th grade, but you'll make that kid wait until 8th to do FCPS Algebra I, which is very watered down and taught at a much lower level than the AoPS Algebra? How does that make any sense?

How does it not make sense? This kid could also read at the college level before 5th grade...we are not thinking about skipping to college. We allow outside tutoring for “fun” but I’m also glad for the pace the school sets. A child can be exposed to rigorous algebra I questions in 5th grade for fun and take a Algebra I again in 8th grade. It’s just going to be pretty darn easy. Which leaves opportunity for more studying outside class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We think it’s important to stay on a steady, only slightly accelerated path in school and learn to work deeper on that level. It’s not a race.

How are you managing to have your kids work deeper on grade level math in school? The worksheets my kids are bringing home in AAP math are pretty basic, as are all of the tests and quizzes. There isn't any "working deeper" happening. The only thing kids who are ahead can learn in AAP math is how to tolerate boredom and busywork.

It’s not busywork. It’s easy. But it’s an opportunity to show you can work fast and you can work accurately. On some assignments that’s enough. Some teachers give harder problems when a student finishes fast. On other assignments there are ways to go deeper. There is usually a challenge question or even a whole page at the end of a chapter. Encourage your child to show what they know. But I do think it’s important that you encourage 100% effort at all levels. Sometimes a kid can be working on logarithmic functions outside school and in school get a word problem on rates wrong. The latter being far easier. Just because a kid is advanced doesn’t make that rate problem busywork. But honestly, until you hit middle school I wouldn’t complain about school math being easy. The school is laying a foundation. It will ramp up soon enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has done kumon and aops (both 3-4 grade levels ahead) but won’t do Algebra I until 8th grade in school. We think it’s important to stay on a steady, only slightly accelerated path in school and learn to work deeper on that level. It’s not a race. These kids are young. Kids need to learn how to learn. Some kids need to learn how to be advanced and show it while working at all levels.

Just wondering why you put child in only 3rd and 4th. Did you find school teaching in math to be lacking?

In both programs child was/is working 3 to 4 grade levels ahead.

Your kid is doing or will be doing AoPS Algebra, which is very rigorous, around 5th grade, but you'll make that kid wait until 8th to do FCPS Algebra I, which is very watered down and taught at a much lower level than the AoPS Algebra? How does that make any sense?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has done kumon and aops (both 3-4 grade levels ahead) but won’t do Algebra I until 8th grade in school. We think it’s important to stay on a steady, only slightly accelerated path in school and learn to work deeper on that level. It’s not a race. These kids are young. Kids need to learn how to learn. Some kids need to learn how to be advanced and show it while working at all levels.

Just wondering why you put child in only 3rd and 4th. Did you find school teaching in math to be lacking?

In both programs child was/is working 3 to 4 grade levels ahead.

Anonymous wrote:We think it’s important to stay on a steady, only slightly accelerated path in school and learn to work deeper on that level. It’s not a race.

How are you managing to have your kids work deeper on grade level math in school? The worksheets my kids are bringing home in AAP math are pretty basic, as are all of the tests and quizzes. There isn't any "working deeper" happening. The only thing kids who are ahead can learn in AAP math is how to tolerate boredom and busywork.

Anonymous wrote:My child has done kumon and aops (both 3-4 grade levels ahead) but won’t do Algebra I until 8th grade in school. We think it’s important to stay on a steady, only slightly accelerated path in school and learn to work deeper on that level. It’s not a race. These kids are young. Kids need to learn how to learn. Some kids need to learn how to be advanced and show it while working at all levels.

Just wondering why you put child in only 3rd and 4th. Did you find school teaching in math to be lacking?

My child has done kumon and aops (both 3-4 grade levels ahead) but won’t do Algebra I until 8th grade in school. We think it’s important to stay on a steady, only slightly accelerated path in school and learn to work deeper on that level. It’s not a race. These kids are young. Kids need to learn how to learn. Some kids need to learn how to be advanced and show it while working at all levels.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of defensive parents. However you rationalize it. It is tutoring. If you think common core (from which VA standards are based) isn’t teaching math standards at fast enough rate, and you use that as an excuse to pay for classes that do, that’s tutoring.

Ignorant poster, nobody thinks FCPS isn't teaching math standards fast enough! From the many posts it's clear they are not teaching well enough, and actually do very little teaching! They actually rush through a bunch of topics, do not teach them effectively (using worksheets, group lessons, and pretty much anything other than teacher involvement). Because they haven't taught them enough, they have to "spiral" around to them again, year after year! So you expect most kids to just get it through osmosis? That's why there's a huge business in private tutoring/teaching/enrichment centers everywhere you look. It speaks to the large elephant in the room, namely that there is very little teaching being done in elementary and middle school! (And high school too, but hopefully by that point many kids should be able to at least figure out how to learn on their own).

+1. In the last few years, AAP math for my kids has been rotating through: The teacher center, where they might actually learn material, the "game" center, where they do some sort of vaguely math related game, the "technology center" where they are stuck doing Dreambox, the "sudoku center", where they do sudoku puzzles, and the worksheet center, where they do worksheets. My oldest is in 6th, and I'm still seeing a lot of this.

Mine are in AoPS so they can actually learn math. It has nothing to do with learning the material earlier or faster, since the AoPS track has Algebra in 7th. I've recognized a lot of kids from my kids' AAP center at AoPS, and I would imagine that a bunch of other kids are doing Kumon, RSM, or Mathnasium. No one is trying to get ahead in the curriculum, and we all accept that our kids are going to be bored out of their minds during school math. At least this way they're getting a solid foundation.

Same here. My kid is in a Flipped Classroom nonsense for Math. All the actual teaching is being done at home and at aops. I have no doubt my kid would struggle or lose interest in Math by HS if we did not do this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just think the schools should stop having stupid rules about sending a kid to another grade for math. Test them and if they’re doing 8th grade math outside of school- send them to an 8th grade math teacher during school.

I know at least two schools where they do send more advanced kids to other grades for Math. There is definitely one child in DD's 4th grade class who is doing 6th grade math I suspect he's actually considerably more advanced than that), and I have a friend who has had two kids grade skip math. What it takes is perfect SOLs and perfect grades in math, in class.

Mosby Woods? They allow kids to skip grades in math, but the process is very secretive. They don't just want the perfect SOLs, but they also want very high CogAT Q scores. Then, a FCPS curriculum specialist tests the kids for a grade skip. Some very talented kids are passed over based on tests when from when they were 7 year olds, while other overly prepped kids are being given the grade skip. If you think your kid should be considered for a skip, make a point of asking about the criteria at the end of 4th grade.

My friends kids (who grade skipped) go to Mosby Woods; DD does not. . I wouldn't be surprised if they both had high quant scores, as their overall CogAT scores are near 150. Neither kid was prepped.

Op here. I just wanted to add that when my 5th grader started 3rd grade AAP, many kids at his previous center struggled with the new pace. There were definitely some tears back then and we had to teach him some fundamentals that either the school skipped or my kid never learned. He also got 4s in math but he had to work for it back then. I guess like how my 3rd grader is doing now. The difference is that at old AAP center school, I think very few did outside tutoring. It was a high farms area vs in McLean it seems like many do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD completed math program at Kumon McLean. She breezed through Algebras and skipped Calculus - because of Kumon.

So if my child was sitting in same algebra class with your child, my child would appear to be struggling since your child already learned or at least had exposure to material being taught in class.

I will take my kids to visit mathnasium. Guess it can’t hurt.

Yes. I teach AAP and the amount of kids who already know all of the standards I have to cover this year is insane!! They learned it outside of school two years ago and are doing way harder math outside of school. The schools won’t put them in a higher grade for math class though... so I’m stuck with 1/4 students who aren’t familiar with the standards (which is what a teacher typically expects- to teach kids the standards), 1/2 already know it all, and the other 1/4 are somewhat familiar from doing less intense math outside of school. I have pressure to challenge and engage the kids who are bored because they know it all, but my concern is catching up the students who come to school to learn math. Not everyone’s parents have spent thousands to get them way ahead in math from first grade on...it’s cool they know so much but I think having them take a test and go with the right grade for math block would make more sense. Parents so crazy competitive about TJ, but half these kids are getting far far ahead of the pacing guide doing math outside of school. I think it really effects the confidence of the kids who come to school to learn math because we have al these kids saying “this is easy” and solving problems so quickly...

I just think the schools should stop having stupid rules about sending a kid to another grade for math. Test them and if they’re doing 8th grade math outside of school- send them to an 8th grade math teacher during school.

Op here. So my kid isn’t wrong when he says he is in the lowest math group within AAP.

Do you think the kids without outside help are at a disadvantage?

I actually really value free time and play. We are Asian American. My parents prioritized education and did not value socialization.

It all depends on how well the material is taught in class. If your kids are in the lowest group yet they're understanding, are happy to learn, and bring home good grades, then it is fine. If most of these things are not happening then yes, they could be at risk of staying behind or even getting more behind. But disadvantage is a relative term, i.e with respect to what? In McLean AAP it's much more likely that kids are already ahead (or even way ahead) of the pacing. But it's not a problem unless you have some specific goal in mind (such as TJ, etc) which not all parents believe in, or have kids who are interested.

Here's the thing: In elementary school the most important thing is NOT how accelerated your kid becomes compared to others. This is a mistake many here make. Many parents end up focusing on speeding up vs just slowing down and building more depth in problem solving. When their kids get into the highest class (honors Algebra in 7th, or even earlier) they are happy and proud, but they later notice that the kids are actually struggling because their foundation is somewhat shaky and they can't handle it. I.e the kid seems to understand the basics but when it comes to a test that has a problem they haven't seen before, their brain shuts down and they bomb it. (For some it's even worse, their kid is on pace for TJ, they get in, only to realize that they're again more unprepared than they thought and it is even harder to get back on track, resulting in years of real struggle).

So to answer your question, kids in elementary definitely need to play and have time to be creative, socialize with their friends, and have time to explore their interests and find their passion. If they're unhappy in class, it would be a good idea to sign them up for outside help (assuming you're unable to provide that yourself at home). There are many options as discussed earlier in this thread, and not all one size fits all. For example, Kumon is known to emphasize an extreme focus on repetition, which may work well for some kids but feel like awful and boring drudgery for others. On the other side of the spectrum AoPS has the deepest problem solving curriculum that I know of, and focuses on challenging the kids who are bored in school by teaching them to solve problems they have not seen before. If a kid is struggling with concepts and needs regular tutoring AoPS is often not a good fit, but for other kids it's exactly what they're looking for. And the numerous other programs such as Mathnasium, etc. are somewhere in between. You'll have to explore some of them to figure out what is right for your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have 2 kids in 3rd and 5th grade AAP. I’ve recently realized that many of their classmates go to kumon or mathnasium. My 3rd grader seems to especially feel behind as he feels his classmates are more advanced than he is in math. Some kids claim to be doing algebra in 3rd grade. We recently moved to Mclean. I didn’t even know what mathnasium was until we moved here.

My 5th grader told me he is in the lowest AAP math group. He said his group is the one who did the worst in pre assessments. At open house, teachers were purposely vague about differentiation within AAP math. We have never prepped or done any outside math with our children. I’m beginning to think we should be doing something.

My 3rd grader recently took another pre assessment and he said he was dumb. He said he got only 4 questions right out of 20 while others were getting everything right. I told him this was for the teacher to see where everyone was at and DS said he was the dumbest kid in the class.

Both my kids scored 99th percentile in their math Cogat and have always received 4s in math.

Should I be sending my kids to mathnasium or similar?

In a case like this I would-- not because your kid needs more math, but because it's hurting his confidence. My Ds was struggling in math and a math tutor said that we better believe that many of these kids who are doing amazing are getting tons of outside support-- even, and especially, if they are highly gifted in the subject.

I'm also in the camp of "you can never have too much math"-- even if you choose a field that doesn't require a lot of math, the critical thinking skills are invaluable.

My son took regular math throughout school and wound up making up lost ground in HS when he took some college classes. He was accepted as a STEM major at almost every college he applied to (state schools).

We never did Kumon or Mathnasium, instead I supplemented at home using, at first, flash cards to memorize math facts in elementary school and later using released math SOLs as study guides. I also looked over his homework every night. Math is NOT my strong suit so at some point I had to step back and let him sink or swim with it. He swam.. I think his success had a lot to do with going over the basics with him, really making sure that he practiced his math when he was younger.

If Mathnasium or Kumon helps kids get that practice in, more power to the folks who use those programs. We don't think twice about reading with our kids - reading a bedtime story is often a part of the nightly routine. Quizzing math facts and sitting down and working on math problems is something that you have to prioritize doing or it doesn't get done.

Op here. We check our 3rd grader’s homework everyday. My 5th grader seems to not bring any homework minus some occasional projects. Both kids get good grades but the perception is so different for the two of them.

For your 5th grader - you can ask his teacher if there is any practice that he should be doing at home. You can print out the 5th grade math SOL and see how he does on it. You can utilize a program like Mathnasium which will test him to figure out where the gaps are in his understanding (assuming he has any).

Make sure your 3rd grader is solid on his/her math facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have 2 kids in 3rd and 5th grade AAP. I’ve recently realized that many of their classmates go to kumon or mathnasium. My 3rd grader seems to especially feel behind as he feels his classmates are more advanced than he is in math. Some kids claim to be doing algebra in 3rd grade. We recently moved to Mclean. I didn’t even know what mathnasium was until we moved here.

My 5th grader told me he is in the lowest AAP math group. He said his group is the one who did the worst in pre assessments. At open house, teachers were purposely vague about differentiation within AAP math. We have never prepped or done any outside math with our children. I’m beginning to think we should be doing something.

My 3rd grader recently took another pre assessment and he said he was dumb. He said he got only 4 questions right out of 20 while others were getting everything right. I told him this was for the teacher to see where everyone was at and DS said he was the dumbest kid in the class.

Both my kids scored 99th percentile in their math Cogat and have always received 4s in math.

Should I be sending my kids to mathnasium or similar?

In a case like this I would-- not because your kid needs more math, but because it's hurting his confidence. My Ds was struggling in math and a math tutor said that we better believe that many of these kids who are doing amazing are getting tons of outside support-- even, and especially, if they are highly gifted in the subject.

I'm also in the camp of "you can never have too much math"-- even if you choose a field that doesn't require a lot of math, the critical thinking skills are invaluable.

My son took regular math throughout school and wound up making up lost ground in HS when he took some college classes. He was accepted as a STEM major at almost every college he applied to (state schools).

We never did Kumon or Mathnasium, instead I supplemented at home using, at first, flash cards to memorize math facts in elementary school and later using released math SOLs as study guides. I also looked over his homework every night. Math is NOT my strong suit so at some point I had to step back and let him sink or swim with it. He swam.. I think his success had a lot to do with going over the basics with him, really making sure that he practiced his math when he was younger.

If Mathnasium or Kumon helps kids get that practice in, more power to the folks who use those programs. We don't think twice about reading with our kids - reading a bedtime story is often a part of the nightly routine. Quizzing math facts and sitting down and working on math problems is something that you have to prioritize doing or it doesn't get done.

Op here. We check our 3rd grader’s homework everyday. My 5th grader seems to not bring any homework minus some occasional projects. Both kids get good grades but the perception is so different for the two of them.

OP, I'm the pp in favor of outside math help. I think confidence (vs advancement) is the more critical factor. You *don't* want your extremely intelligent kids to decide at a young age that they aren't "good at math." Programs like Kumon build rote, hard skills that translate into math confidence-- if Kumon isn't right for your kids, individual tutoring can help too. My DS did better with an individual tutor due to some executive functioning issues. It's probably the best money we've spent when it comes to education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have 2 kids in 3rd and 5th grade AAP. I’ve recently realized that many of their classmates go to kumon or mathnasium. My 3rd grader seems to especially feel behind as he feels his classmates are more advanced than he is in math. Some kids claim to be doing algebra in 3rd grade. We recently moved to Mclean. I didn’t even know what mathnasium was until we moved here.

My 5th grader told me he is in the lowest AAP math group. He said his group is the one who did the worst in pre assessments. At open house, teachers were purposely vague about differentiation within AAP math. We have never prepped or done any outside math with our children. I’m beginning to think we should be doing something.

My 3rd grader recently took another pre assessment and he said he was dumb. He said he got only 4 questions right out of 20 while others were getting everything right. I told him this was for the teacher to see where everyone was at and DS said he was the dumbest kid in the class.

Both my kids scored 99th percentile in their math Cogat and have always received 4s in math.

Should I be sending my kids to mathnasium or similar?

In a case like this I would-- not because your kid needs more math, but because it's hurting his confidence. My Ds was struggling in math and a math tutor said that we better believe that many of these kids who are doing amazing are getting tons of outside support-- even, and especially, if they are highly gifted in the subject.

I'm also in the camp of "you can never have too much math"-- even if you choose a field that doesn't require a lot of math, the critical thinking skills are invaluable.

My son took regular math throughout school and wound up making up lost ground in HS when he took some college classes. He was accepted as a STEM major at almost every college he applied to (state schools).

We never did Kumon or Mathnasium, instead I supplemented at home using, at first, flash cards to memorize math facts in elementary school and later using released math SOLs as study guides. I also looked over his homework every night. Math is NOT my strong suit so at some point I had to step back and let him sink or swim with it. He swam.. I think his success had a lot to do with going over the basics with him, really making sure that he practiced his math when he was younger.

If Mathnasium or Kumon helps kids get that practice in, more power to the folks who use those programs. We don't think twice about reading with our kids - reading a bedtime story is often a part of the nightly routine. Quizzing math facts and sitting down and working on math problems is something that you have to prioritize doing or it doesn't get done.

Op here. We check our 3rd grader’s homework everyday. My 5th grader seems to not bring any homework minus some occasional projects. Both kids get good grades but the perception is so different for the two of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have 2 kids in 3rd and 5th grade AAP. I’ve recently realized that many of their classmates go to kumon or mathnasium. My 3rd grader seems to especially feel behind as he feels his classmates are more advanced than he is in math. Some kids claim to be doing algebra in 3rd grade. We recently moved to Mclean. I didn’t even know what mathnasium was until we moved here.

My 5th grader told me he is in the lowest AAP math group. He said his group is the one who did the worst in pre assessments. At open house, teachers were purposely vague about differentiation within AAP math. We have never prepped or done any outside math with our children. I’m beginning to think we should be doing something.

My 3rd grader recently took another pre assessment and he said he was dumb. He said he got only 4 questions right out of 20 while others were getting everything right. I told him this was for the teacher to see where everyone was at and DS said he was the dumbest kid in the class.

Both my kids scored 99th percentile in their math Cogat and have always received 4s in math.

Should I be sending my kids to mathnasium or similar?

In a case like this I would-- not because your kid needs more math, but because it's hurting his confidence. My Ds was struggling in math and a math tutor said that we better believe that many of these kids who are doing amazing are getting tons of outside support-- even, and especially, if they are highly gifted in the subject.

I'm also in the camp of "you can never have too much math"-- even if you choose a field that doesn't require a lot of math, the critical thinking skills are invaluable.

My son took regular math throughout school and wound up making up lost ground in HS when he took some college classes. He was accepted as a STEM major at almost every college he applied to (state schools).

We never did Kumon or Mathnasium, instead I supplemented at home using, at first, flash cards to memorize math facts in elementary school and later using released math SOLs as study guides. I also looked over his homework every night. Math is NOT my strong suit so at some point I had to step back and let him sink or swim with it. He swam.. I think his success had a lot to do with going over the basics with him, really making sure that he practiced his math when he was younger.

If Mathnasium or Kumon helps kids get that practice in, more power to the folks who use those programs. We don't think twice about reading with our kids - reading a bedtime story is often a part of the nightly routine. Quizzing math facts and sitting down and working on math problems is something that you have to prioritize doing or it doesn't get done.