Anonymous
Post 11/28/2019 09:41     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Qualities of a Great Sports Coach from the highest levels, the International Olympic Committee. https://stillmed.olympic.org/media/Document%20Library/OlympicOrg/IOC/What-We-Do/Protecting-Clean-Athletes/Athletes-Space/Athletes-Entourage/Coaches/EN-Qualities-of-a-coach.pdf

No where does it talk about the need to win. Winning comes from adequate preparation which comes from the club. Some of the best and most positive experiences can coming from losing. It's a matter of perspective. Over time, I hope parents, coaches, and directors can stop being so hard on themselves. Allow coaches and kids to fail a lot and learn from their experiences. If you have a team, everyone is happy, players improve, coach is successful motivating each player, that's success.


Winning has never been mentioned.

Development requires a motivated player. Being unsatisfied with playing time is a first step. Determining what is required to earn more playing time is the next step.

All you seem to want is more playing time with little regard for the work required to get more playing time. Even at U10, playing time is not an entitlement.

Even at U10, 90% of development occurs in training.


I’m not the OP nor any of the PPs. It’s Thanksgiving. Can you take a day off from being so angry? Be thankful for good health. Be thankful for having a good life and having a horrible soccer issue to have to deal with. Note that winning has been brought up many times from people who seem to be soccer coaches and clubs want to keep their brand whatever that brand might be.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2019 09:18     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:Qualities of a Great Sports Coach from the highest levels, the International Olympic Committee. https://stillmed.olympic.org/media/Document%20Library/OlympicOrg/IOC/What-We-Do/Protecting-Clean-Athletes/Athletes-Space/Athletes-Entourage/Coaches/EN-Qualities-of-a-coach.pdf

No where does it talk about the need to win. Winning comes from adequate preparation which comes from the club. Some of the best and most positive experiences can coming from losing. It's a matter of perspective. Over time, I hope parents, coaches, and directors can stop being so hard on themselves. Allow coaches and kids to fail a lot and learn from their experiences. If you have a team, everyone is happy, players improve, coach is successful motivating each player, that's success.


Winning has never been mentioned.

Development requires a motivated player. Being unsatisfied with playing time is a first step. Determining what is required to earn more playing time is the next step.

All you seem to want is more playing time with little regard for the work required to get more playing time. Even at U10, playing time is not an entitlement.

Even at U10, 90% of development occurs in training.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2019 09:08     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Qualities of a Great Sports Coach from the highest levels, the International Olympic Committee. https://stillmed.olympic.org/media/Document%20Library/OlympicOrg/IOC/What-We-Do/Protecting-Clean-Athletes/Athletes-Space/Athletes-Entourage/Coaches/EN-Qualities-of-a-coach.pdf

No where does it talk about the need to win. Winning comes from adequate preparation which comes from the club. Some of the best and most positive experiences can coming from losing. It's a matter of perspective. Over time, I hope parents, coaches, and directors can stop being so hard on themselves. Allow coaches and kids to fail a lot and learn from their experiences. If you have a team, everyone is happy, players improve, coach is successful motivating each player, that's success.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2019 08:56     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Do keep in mind that every parent on the kid's team is watching closely how this plays out. As the teams get bigger with age over the next couple of years parents can see how the club will handle players in the future. Do keep in mind the positive PR that will come from relating the negative experiences of this kid and his/her parents to other parents with kids on other teams in the club. And, don't forget, there are lots of potential future customers who get to hear about it as well. Obviously, the parents of that kid will be talking to parents of other kids in their school, church and social groups.


This is hilarious. Parents are watching intently to how the club treats the kid in the bottom 1/4 of the roster?

These same parents likely wince, look away and hold their breath while the kid is subbed in hoping the team can hold the lead. They are likely just riding out his shift praying nothing bad happens.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2019 08:52     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
They are playing the kid and they are even playing the kid within the guidelines of rec soccer.

Joey needs to work harder and development happens more at practice 3x a week than it does in one 50 minute game. Development also happens away from practice when kids work on their own to improve. Development is club guided but always player led. While Joey is improving the other players are doing more on their own and are outpacing Joey at this point.

Travel soccer is a competitive atmosphere and game minutes are limited. This requires that game minutes are earned. 50% of playing time is the entitlement for showing up. The rest of the time is earned. Joey will not get more playing time until he improves in these areas.....



Anonymous
Post 11/28/2019 08:13     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:



And you still dismiss talking to the coach. Some perspective


_____________________________

Well, since you apparently came late to the thread, I did suggest talking to the coach and the relavent director, but I do agree with the earlier poster who said that such conversations were basically worthless. What is it that you think will get accomplished by such a discussion -- do tell.

I'll start things off:

Coach, thanks for taking a few minutes to talk to us about little Joey. As you obviously know, the last few games Joey has played about 50 percent of the games while all the other kids on the team play at least 3/4s of the game and most play the entire game. Now, when I look at the club's player policy on line it says that player development is the most important thing for the club and the players. It also says that players will play multiple positions and play as much time as possible in each game. These were very important to us when we had Joey try out for the team, because it was going to be a reach for Joey. We were expressly assured by Sam, the club's youth director, that the club held by these rules and Joey would be fine working with this team. As you know, Joey is at every practice and every game on time, and I confirmed with the team manager that he works hard and demonstrates a good attitude at every practice and game. I also confirmed with the team manager that he has no disciplinary problems at all and Joey is well liked by his teammates. And, of course, we have paid the team and club fees in full. So, given all of that, can you explain to me why Joey is only playing half a game when everyone else on the team is playing at least 3/4s of a game, and most of the kids play the full game? Please also explain to me how Joey is going to continue to get better as a player in game situations when he is sitting on the bench.

Thanks




Until the conversation happens you don’t know. But based on how you act here iris of no surprise that such conversations have not gone as you expected. There is no give or take with you and certainly no humility.

Frankly, the kid may just not be that good and the coach was wrong in the selection.

It is also possible that the parent is overreacting and exaggerating the problem online.
But there is no reason to go into such a conversation in an adversarial way.


______________________________________

Now you are running for cover and that cover does not exist.

That statement above is pretty much what any parent is going to say to a coach who is not playing their kid. Your response as the "coach" could be "I made a mistake putting your kid on the team". As I said before I have seen that situation once in the past, and I thought the club handled it about as good as you could expect though it came only a couple of weeks after tryouts. It did cost the club a few thousand dollars as they picked up the uniform costs for the kid's new club and ate the uniform costs for their team, and the club paid a $1000 of the new club's fees. The kid did keep playing for a few more years and he also played for his high school team so that is good. But, do tell me what the response is of the coach to a parent of a kid on the team who says the above. You know, the response that puts in to perspective. It will obviously (a) justify not playing the kid nearly as much as all his teammates and (b) explain all the positives of a family paying a few grand to the club so that their kid and his/her parents can be embarassed weekly as the kid. Don't forget to explain why winning a game at 10 years old is key (and by the way you had better be winning tournament and league titles because otherwise no justification at all). After all, its apparently always good for 9 and 10 year olds to learn. Heck, apparently every parent should be signing their kids up for things that cost a few thousand dollars and require big family time commitments so that they and their kids can be embarrassed weekly. Maybe dance, or singing lessons, or art lessons. The key is to find things where they and their kid can learn the benefits of doing an activity a few days a week for a year, not as good as everyone else in their class so we can continually point that out to them and their parents at least weekly. Sounds like this can be fun. I can't wait to hear about 9 or 10 year olds humiliated weekly all while charging their parents a few thousand for the pleasure.


Do keep in mind that every parent on the kid's team is watching closely how this plays out. As the teams get bigger with age over the next couple of years parents can see how the club will handle players in the future. Do keep in mind the positive PR that will come from relating the negative experiences of this kid and his/her parents to other parents with kids on other teams in the club. And, don't forget, there are lots of potential future customers who get to hear about it as well. Obviously, the parents of that kid will be talking to parents of other kids in their school, church and social groups.


Anonymous
Post 11/28/2019 07:47     Subject: Playing time expectations
Back to my point ... smaller rosters and decent (but not equal) playing time for all. I think coaches and clubs owe that to all players from whom their parents they take money. The goal in youth soccer is actually not to win, but rather to develop. By not giving equal playing time but still giving decent playing time the competitive fire is lit yet interest is still maintained. If the kid rarely sees the field they will lose interest and either quit soccer or quit your team, so you’ve lost the future revenue anyhow.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2019 23:10     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:



And you still dismiss talking to the coach. Some perspective


_____________________________

Well, since you apparently came late to the thread, I did suggest talking to the coach and the relavent director, but I do agree with the earlier poster who said that such conversations were basically worthless. What is it that you think will get accomplished by such a discussion -- do tell.

I'll start things off:

Coach, thanks for taking a few minutes to talk to us about little Joey. As you obviously know, the last few games Joey has played about 50 percent of the games while all the other kids on the team play at least 3/4s of the game and most play the entire game. Now, when I look at the club's player policy on line it says that player development is the most important thing for the club and the players. It also says that players will play multiple positions and play as much time as possible in each game. These were very important to us when we had Joey try out for the team, because it was going to be a reach for Joey. We were expressly assured by Sam, the club's youth director, that the club held by these rules and Joey would be fine working with this team. As you know, Joey is at every practice and every game on time, and I confirmed with the team manager that he works hard and demonstrates a good attitude at every practice and game. I also confirmed with the team manager that he has no disciplinary problems at all and Joey is well liked by his teammates. And, of course, we have paid the team and club fees in full. So, given all of that, can you explain to me why Joey is only playing half a game when everyone else on the team is playing at least 3/4s of a game, and most of the kids play the full game? Please also explain to me how Joey is going to continue to get better as a player in game situations when he is sitting on the bench.

Thanks











Until the conversation happens you don’t know. But based on how you act here iris of no surprise that such conversations have not gone as you expected. There is no give or take with you and certainly no humility.

Frankly, the kid may just not be that good and the coach was wrong in the selection.

It is also possible that the parent is overreacting and exaggerating the problem online.

But there is no reason to go into such a conversation in an adversarial way.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2019 23:05     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:This thread is so sad. Guy with years and years of experience puts it all in perspective and you all are still so sure you know better without even pausing for a second to consider. Sadly you speak for most of the parents around here who think the goal of U9 travel soccer is to win the U9 world cup. As long as this is the US attitude we well never come close to catching up to the rest of the world.
If you think the point of youth soccer at any level is to win games right now you are the one who still doesn't get it. Youth soccer is about getting them ready for the next level. If you are a travel coach and you take a kid on your team you are making a commitment to do everything you can to get that kid ready for the next level, which includes playing in games.


Guy with perspective dismissed talking with the coach like an adult. Regardless of how you believe something may turn out the arrogance that nothing good can come from acting like an adult and talking to a coach about a 9 year old kid is unfathomable. You spend 2k but the coach isn’t worth 1 hour of your time? Brilliant. Brilliant lesson.

The kid will be out of travel sports because of the short sightedness of arrogant parents. If the coach is wrong, well you did your best. If the coach had a point, well you lost an opportunity for constructive criticism that can help.

In short, there is nothing in life to lose by talking. There is everything to lose by practicing pride and arrogance.

Good luck to this poor kid with the terrible guidance here.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2019 22:56     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
This thread is so sad. Guy with years and years of experience puts it all in perspective and you all are still so sure you know better without even pausing for a second to consider. Sadly you speak for most of the parents around here who think the goal of U9 travel soccer is to win the U9 world cup. As long as this is the US attitude we well never come close to catching up to the rest of the world.
If you think the point of youth soccer at any level is to win games right now you are the one who still doesn't get it. Youth soccer is about getting them ready for the next level. If you are a travel coach and you take a kid on your team you are making a commitment to do everything you can to get that kid ready for the next level, which includes playing in games.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2019 22:44     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Nothing good comes from talking to the coach. Move on.

Anonymous
Post 11/27/2019 22:16     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations




And you still dismiss talking to the coach. Some perspective


_____________________________

Well, since you apparently came late to the thread, I did suggest talking to the coach and the relavent director, but I do agree with the earlier poster who said that such conversations were basically worthless. What is it that you think will get accomplished by such a discussion -- do tell.

I'll start things off:

Coach, thanks for taking a few minutes to talk to us about little Joey. As you obviously know, the last few games Joey has played about 50 percent of the games while all the other kids on the team play at least 3/4s of the game and most play the entire game. Now, when I look at the club's player policy on line it says that player development is the most important thing for the club and the players. It also says that players will play multiple positions and play as much time as possible in each game. These were very important to us when we had Joey try out for the team, because it was going to be a reach for Joey. We were expressly assured by Sam, the club's youth director, that the club held by these rules and Joey would be fine working with this team. As you know, Joey is at every practice and every game on time, and I confirmed with the team manager that he works hard and demonstrates a good attitude at every practice and game. I also confirmed with the team manager that he has no disciplinary problems at all and Joey is well liked by his teammates. And, of course, we have paid the team and club fees in full. So, given all of that, can you explain to me why Joey is only playing half a game when everyone else on the team is playing at least 3/4s of a game, and most of the kids play the full game? Please also explain to me how Joey is going to continue to get better as a player in game situations when he is sitting on the bench.

Thanks









Anonymous
Post 11/27/2019 21:00     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Just go away. You don’t understand competitive sports and the purpose of travel and rec sports. Your kid will not last long in travel sports.

Just because you paid does not mean playing time is an entitlement. 50% of minutes is fair. Take a look at DA game reports and you’ll see kids getting 10-20 minutes a game and they pay significantly more than U10.

————//////

Yep. That’s me.

I have 3 kids who played youth soccer. 1 played 4 years of college. 1 played through u18 and is in Germany now - he switched to competitive lifting (there’s a dull sport to watch). 1 dropped out at u14 but is a heckuva drummer. I coached 8 years myself and had my D license (lapsed long ago) I have stood on the sidelines and watched my kids in at least 1000 youth games (my daughter at u14 played in 82 games - another dad and I figured that out a few years back. Insanity of course but the goal then was to set the team up to win a USYSA national championship (just prior to ECNL days)). Oh, and don’t forget about the 150 or so high school games (tried to get to most) and about 40 or so college games (can’t travel that much). I also was an officer of our youth rec league for 4 years. And, as my kids reffed I also took the certification classes and reffed for 4 years due to a shortage.

In retrospect I can say with some surety that exactly zero of all those club games meant anything other than maybe the usysa regionals. (Never had a kid make finals). And, the handful of games where my kids were being scouted. Some of the college playoff games were “important” in the sense of team ranking and rivalry. More important to the kid than to us obviously. By then though, as I have said before, you are mostly hoping to have your kid avoid getting hurt.

So - one thing all those years of experiences gives you is perspective. And one large dose of parent perspective is that your kid’s team winning a u10 or u14 or u17 game, any game, means exactly zero. Nothing at all. What matters is whether your kid and others learned something at each stage, and whether they had fun at each stage. That’s it. So, with all that hindsight, that all good coaches and club directors have, it is easy to say: play every kid as much as possible. And if you have a concern that a kid is not good enough to play then don’t put them on the team and don’t take their money. Easy.









And to think with all that perspective the simple solution of talking to the coach evades you.




Do try and keep up. If you look at the last post you will miss things. But, truth be told, if you have a coach with a club that is something other than "Joe's Soccer Club" who does not already know that he or she needs to play everybody as much as possible for them to learn, then you have a bad coach and it is time to leave. Yes, it would be good to tell the club director, but really you don't get an E license without learning that simple lesson and having it drilled into you. So, if a youth coach is not even doing that basic coaching function you know he or she is doing other stuff wrong and it would be time to get your money back and move on.



And you still dismiss talking to the coach. Some perspective
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2019 20:58     Subject: Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Or switch clubs to one that has a better developmental philosophy. There are so many to choose from at every level of play. You don't have to stay where your kid isn't getting good coaching and development.


The coach may be good or may be bad. This is unknown. But the parent needs to talk to the coach.


Sure, they can try. My experience has been that coaches rarely want to have that conversation. And when they do have it, it rarely leads to any meaningful change. So once you have that conversation and then things stay the same, switch clubs. Plenty to choose from


In reading your posts if I were a coach I’d avoid you too.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2019 20:56     Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Just go away. You don’t understand competitive sports and the purpose of travel and rec sports. Your kid will not last long in travel sports.

Just because you paid does not mean playing time is an entitlement. 50% of minutes is fair. Take a look at DA game reports and you’ll see kids getting 10-20 minutes a game and they pay significantly more than U10.

————//////

Yep. That’s me.

I have 3 kids who played youth soccer. 1 played 4 years of college. 1 played through u18 and is in Germany now - he switched to competitive lifting (there’s a dull sport to watch). 1 dropped out at u14 but is a heckuva drummer. I coached 8 years myself and had my D license (lapsed long ago) I have stood on the sidelines and watched my kids in at least 1000 youth games (my daughter at u14 played in 82 games - another dad and I figured that out a few years back. Insanity of course but the goal then was to set the team up to win a USYSA national championship (just prior to ECNL days)). Oh, and don’t forget about the 150 or so high school games (tried to get to most) and about 40 or so college games (can’t travel that much). I also was an officer of our youth rec league for 4 years. And, as my kids reffed I also took the certification classes and reffed for 4 years due to a shortage.

In retrospect I can say with some surety that exactly zero of all those club games meant anything other than maybe the usysa regionals. (Never had a kid make finals). And, the handful of games where my kids were being scouted. Some of the college playoff games were “important” in the sense of team ranking and rivalry. More important to the kid than to us obviously. By then though, as I have said before, you are mostly hoping to have your kid avoid getting hurt.

So - one thing all those years of experiences gives you is perspective. And one large dose of parent perspective is that your kid’s team winning a u10 or u14 or u17 game, any game, means exactly zero. Nothing at all. What matters is whether your kid and others learned something at each stage, and whether they had fun at each stage. That’s it. So, with all that hindsight, that all good coaches and club directors have, it is easy to say: play every kid as much as possible. And if you have a concern that a kid is not good enough to play then don’t put them on the team and don’t take their money. Easy.









And to think with all that perspective the simple solution of talking to the coach evades you.




Do try and keep up. If you look at the last post you will miss things. But, truth be told, if you have a coach with a club that is something other than "Joe's Soccer Club" who does not already know that he or she needs to play everybody as much as possible for them to learn, then you have a bad coach and it is time to leave. Yes, it would be good to tell the club director, but really you don't get an E license without learning that simple lesson and having it drilled into you. So, if a youth coach is not even doing that basic coaching function you know he or she is doing other stuff wrong and it would be time to get your money back and move on.