Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you got to hand it to him for being clear upfront.

But what he's saying is "My way or the highway." Which is not really very nice.

Well, he's laying down a pretty big dealbreaker, that's for sure. My big concern would be that she would be expected to be secondary in ways other than religion - that his family's tradition, histories, and lore would always be more important than hers, aside from religion. I would want to make clear, if I were her, that the kids were still going to celebrate Christmas with their other grandparents. I would not allow myself to be completely subsumed. Although she can convert and agree to raise the children Jewish, she cannot erase her whole family and history.

But that's exactly what's going on.

The whole thing makes no sense. If religion X is soooooo terribly important to him, why date people outside religion X?

Is it some ego trip? Or some hidden way to proselitize?

I'll go with ego trip -- bending someone completely to your will. Informing them that they must leave anything behind that conflicts in any way with the demands of their spouse's religion. I wouldn't expect religious conversion to be the end of the demands, if the Jewish spouse does not even allow his children to celebrate a secular Christmas with their Christian grandparents.

You're probably right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you got to hand it to him for being clear upfront.

But what he's saying is "My way or the highway." Which is not really very nice.

Well, he's laying down a pretty big dealbreaker, that's for sure. My big concern would be that she would be expected to be secondary in ways other than religion - that his family's tradition, histories, and lore would always be more important than hers, aside from religion. I would want to make clear, if I were her, that the kids were still going to celebrate Christmas with their other grandparents. I would not allow myself to be completely subsumed. Although she can convert and agree to raise the children Jewish, she cannot erase her whole family and history.

But that's exactly what's going on.

The whole thing makes no sense. If religion X is soooooo terribly important to him, why date people outside religion X?

Is it some ego trip? Or some hidden way to proselitize?

I'll go with ego trip -- bending someone completely to your will. Informing them that they must leave anything behind that conflicts in any way with the demands of their spouse's religion. I wouldn't expect religious conversion to be the end of the demands, if the Jewish spouse does not even allow his children to celebrate a secular Christmas with their Christian grandparents.

So sexist, as pointed out by OP. Women can make their own choices including concluding traditions of the grandparents (e.g., rampant materialism of “secular Christmas”) are not want they want to impart to their children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you got to hand it to him for being clear upfront.

But what he's saying is "My way or the highway." Which is not really very nice.

Well, he's laying down a pretty big dealbreaker, that's for sure. My big concern would be that she would be expected to be secondary in ways other than religion - that his family's tradition, histories, and lore would always be more important than hers, aside from religion. I would want to make clear, if I were her, that the kids were still going to celebrate Christmas with their other grandparents. I would not allow myself to be completely subsumed. Although she can convert and agree to raise the children Jewish, she cannot erase her whole family and history.

But that's exactly what's going on.

The whole thing makes no sense. If religion X is soooooo terribly important to him, why date people outside religion X?

Is it some ego trip? Or some hidden way to proselitize?

I'll go with ego trip -- bending someone completely to your will. Informing them that they must leave anything behind that conflicts in any way with the demands of their spouse's religion. I wouldn't expect religious conversion to be the end of the demands, if the Jewish spouse does not even allow his children to celebrate a secular Christmas with their Christian grandparents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you got to hand it to him for being clear upfront.

But what he's saying is "My way or the highway." Which is not really very nice.

Well, he's laying down a pretty big dealbreaker, that's for sure. My big concern would be that she would be expected to be secondary in ways other than religion - that his family's tradition, histories, and lore would always be more important than hers, aside from religion. I would want to make clear, if I were her, that the kids were still going to celebrate Christmas with their other grandparents. I would not allow myself to be completely subsumed. Although she can convert and agree to raise the children Jewish, she cannot erase her whole family and history.

But that's exactly what's going on.

The whole thing makes no sense. If religion X is soooooo terribly important to him, why date people outside religion X?

Is it some ego trip? Or some hidden way to proselitize?

Maybe Christmas just isn’t important for them like it is for one of the set up grandparents-it’s not their religious tradition as a family - maybe the grandparents will just need to deal and enjoy their grandchildren on another day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you got to hand it to him for being clear upfront.

But what he's saying is "My way or the highway." Which is not really very nice.

Well, he's laying down a pretty big dealbreaker, that's for sure. My big concern would be that she would be expected to be secondary in ways other than religion - that his family's tradition, histories, and lore would always be more important than hers, aside from religion. I would want to make clear, if I were her, that the kids were still going to celebrate Christmas with their other grandparents. I would not allow myself to be completely subsumed. Although she can convert and agree to raise the children Jewish, she cannot erase her whole family and history.

He might go for it if it's a secular celebration -- e.g., stockings, a tree and santa, but no baby Jesus coming to save our souls. A lot of people celebrate that way already.

Anonymous wrote:Well, you got to hand it to him for being clear upfront.

But what he's saying is "My way or the highway." Which is not really very nice.

Well, he's laying down a pretty big dealbreaker, that's for sure. My big concern would be that she would be expected to be secondary in ways other than religion - that his family's tradition, histories, and lore would always be more important than hers, aside from religion. I would want to make clear, if I were her, that the kids were still going to celebrate Christmas with their other grandparents. I would not allow myself to be completely subsumed. Although she can convert and agree to raise the children Jewish, she cannot erase her whole family and history.

Anonymous wrote:Well, you got to hand it to him for being clear upfront.

But what he's saying is "My way or the highway." Which is not really very nice.

Some women love macho men.

Well, you got to hand it to him for being clear upfront.

But what he's saying is "My way or the highway." Which is not really very nice.

Anonymous wrote:Just get engaged without getting married
Live together that way

He says he is devoted family man and will be devoted to her. His devotion is first to his family and religion and then maybe to her

She will have to change everything

+1.

I would never marry a fundamentalist, of any religion.

Just get engaged without getting married
Live together that way

He says he is devoted family man and will be devoted to her. His devotion is first to his family and religion and then maybe to her

She will have to change everything

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for chiming in. He keeps kosher and attends temple every week, not sure if once or twice. I know at Christmas he bought her a Mensch on a Bench. They are both in their late 20s and live in another state, so I don’t get to peer into their relationship. I know they work a lot, hike, and generally enjoy each other’s company. I am happy to know that it’s not weird for them to date.

He is either going to break up with her or insist she converts and raises children 100% Jewish household. Been there. Done that.

Anonymous wrote:Jewish mom here to two Jewish boys. Mazel tov to your daughter and her betrothed!!! May they lead a life of good health and happiness!!!

Thank you! My best friend wishes to you and your family as well!

Jewish mom here to two Jewish boys. Mazel tov to your daughter and her betrothed!!! May they lead a life of good health and happiness!!!

Anonymous wrote:Religion makes people do bad things
It is obvious that a conversion to Judaism will be viewed with suspicion

No need to fight. You know you are a lunatic

Op here. Skimmed the thread and was a little taken aback by some of the vitriol. My daughter and her fiancé are mature adults and professionals with advanced medical degrees. Her fiancé proposed and said he wanted to marry her, and she had the choice to marry him and convert. He wants a family and wants his kids to be raised Jewish. My daughter has dated other men and has decided that as well as marrying for love, it is of the upmost importance she marries a man who will be an excellent father and provider for her and their kids. Someone who is devoted to family and views family as very important- even his devotion to his mom and family of origin and his religion is attractive to her. He made it clear that his primary focus is their life together and their future kids. He said he didn’t want to string her along for an extended amount of time and was honest. She was extremely thoughtful about every aspect of conversion and implications on her future. They met several times with his (their?) rabbi and ongoing with a therapist together, and she knows she doesn’t have to marry him, but wants to. She has always been reserved and thoughtful and modest. She’s excited and happy to be with a kind and loving man who cares for her and also convert to Judaism. She doesn’t have to. She wants to. His mom has already become more accepting to their marriage as they visited them, and she has seen I would guess what a fabulous dil she will be getting.

Also: she dated a man who was surface perfect, but was a jerk and wanted to marry her. Thank goodness he revealed himself before that was her fate. And a pharmacist who was a sneaky a-hole. And another doc who wanted no kids. Lots of guys who didn’t want what this man wants. I’d take this man over any of them because he’s going to be a good dad who was honest with her. I am sure the moms of the other guys weren’t perfect either.

Thank you to all those who posted here with positive and helpful advice.