Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fck off. I worked for my "privilege". My parents were the first in my family to go to college. I resent this being counted against my kids for purely political reasons.

You really don’t get it apparently.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw. No one in the building works harder than the janitorial staff. And many of them have second and third jobs. Lots of people work hard. But their hard work doesn’t help their kids like mine does.

Bravo, bravo

time to bring this full circle

this isn't a discussion about working hard

this is a discussion about penalizing certain groups of people for "privilege"

as others have said you need to level the playing field from day one not punish people who are successful

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Discussions like this make me unapologetic about any “privilege” you think I have. Congrats.

I am an immigrant and I have zero patients for crap like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Privilege is just a loaded word

Apparently it's privilege that instead of going on fancy vacations and spending on cars we lived more frugally so we could afford to live in a better school district

Apparently it's privilege to encourage your kids to work hard, study and get good grades

I just call bs on all of it

Doing those things is common sense and if more folks would do it we wouldn't be having these discussions

Apparently it's privilege to go to school/military/trade/skill/job then get married and TEHN have kids once you can afford them

Again if people did that poverty would almost disappear in a generation

How do people avoid poverty if the minimum wage (which is all you can expect to earn, at least at first, if you have only an HS diploma) will not rent you a two-bedroom in 99 percent of the nation's counties? How do you pay for a trade school if all you're earning is minimum wage?

There are no easy solutions to escaping generational poverty, but your three-step solution above will not suffice. Escaping povery is not ONLY about individual choices. It's also about an economic structure that PERMITS you exit from poverty, and the US doesn't have that right now.


Correct. It's been shown that all one needs to do to avoid being in poverty is finish high school, get a job, and get married before having children. If you do those things in that order, it's not even a matter of "waiting until you can afford them"...as you will be able to afford the children you have in that circumstance without being in poverty. (I understand this is a low bar...most people *want* to live well above the poverty level, and so waiting until you've saved a little money before having kids would be idea, but this isn't addressing that.) This is what will secure people a position ABOVE the poverty line. Just those three things. Period.

You haven't been poor before, have you? Minimum wage jobs are for teenagers and new immigrants. You work a job in high school, and if you show up on time and are respectful to your boss, you will either be promoted or can apply for a new job with a higher wage, with their recommendation. There are many, many jobs that people can do with little formal education. But you need to be willing to work your way up. People shouldn't be expecting to live their life and support a family on minimum wage (plus we have this economic structure thing that is called the "Earned Income Tax Credit" that supplements the income of people who work in low wage jobs.) The romanticizing of poverty is interesting to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Privilege is just a loaded word

Apparently it's privilege that instead of going on fancy vacations and spending on cars we lived more frugally so we could afford to live in a better school district

Apparently it's privilege to encourage your kids to work hard, study and get good grades

I just call bs on all of it

Doing those things is common sense and if more folks would do it we wouldn't be having these discussions

Apparently it's privilege to go to school/military/trade/skill/job then get married and TEHN have kids once you can afford them

Again if people did that poverty would almost disappear in a generation

How do people avoid poverty if the minimum wage (which is all you can expect to earn, at least at first, if you have only an HS diploma) will not rent you a two-bedroom in 99 percent of the nation's counties? How do you pay for a trade school if all you're earning is minimum wage?

There are no easy solutions to escaping generational poverty, but your three-step solution above will not suffice. Escaping povery is not ONLY about individual choices. It's also about an economic structure that PERMITS you exit from poverty, and the US doesn't have that right now.


Correct. It's been shown that all one needs to do to avoid being in poverty is finish high school, get a job, and get married before having children. If you do those things in that order, it's not even a matter of "waiting until you can afford them"...as you will be able to afford the children you have in that circumstance without being in poverty. (I understand this is a low bar...most people *want* to live well above the poverty level, and so waiting until you've saved a little money before having kids would be idea, but this isn't addressing that.) This is what will secure people a position ABOVE the poverty line. Just those three things. Period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How do people avoid poverty if the minimum wage (which is all you can expect to earn, at least at first, if you have only an HS diploma) will not rent you a two-bedroom in 99 percent of the nation's counties? How do you pay for a trade school if all you're earning is minimum wage?

Read the PPs more closely.

You don't need a two-bedroom apartment all to yourself if you are single, and remember, you don't have kids yet!. You won't have kids for -years-.

So as a single 19 or 20 year old with a high school degree, earning minimum wage, you rent a room in a group house if you're in an expensive city. Maybe you even share that room that has 2 twin-size beds with another person?

If you're in, say, Dubuque IA, and group homes aren't a thing, you rent a basement from a SFH homeowner on the outskirts of town. Maybe you rent that basement with a roommate.

Are you in my hometown in Kansas, working in an agribusiness processing plant? Then you and 5 of your friends at the plant rent the whole damn house, and you follow the rules and don't trash the house and the owner lets you continue to rent for years as you attend night school at the county community college.

All of this is doable. It's hard as hell to live in deprivation without that second bedroom and balcony, but a healthy, childless, single 19 year old working 40+ hours a week can do it.

You don't even have to do the "rent a room" thing. Renting a (shared) apartment is a norm for most people into their mid-late 20s at least! And this is doable for someone with a high school diploma who gets a job as say...a cashier at Target or Walmart. They pay $17-18 an hour for people who HAVE a diploma...(and about $14 to those who do not.) Costco pays well too. There are many jobs open to those with a HIGH SCHOOL diploma.

But again, we are talking about getting a HS diploma, then getting a job, THEN starting a family after you've had a couple of years to start earning increases and saving up. It's not easy, but it is possible.

Will you own a 3 bedroom home by the time you're 32? Probably not.
But you likely will be able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment in your late 20s and count on being able to provide meals for your family. And that is well above the poverty level.

I hear the dog whistle. What this poster is saying is if all of "those people" stopped getting pregnant and dropping out of school to go on welfare, they would be better off--you know, no longer a drain on society. Perhaps the poster would like to look at the rates of teen pregnancy in this country. Might notice that the rates are dropping for black and Latina women, but remain high for young white women. Same for who is using public assistance.

Growing up and living as a black person in this country, I have always been very aware of the benefits conferred by privilege to other groups. I went to inner city schools where the bare minimum (books that still had my mother's name in them assigned as texts, no afterschool sports, activities, etc.) Both my parents worked. My dad worked two full time jobs so we could move to a better neighborhood. I attended junior high school in a school that was 75% white. I had never really seen that many white people outside of trips downtown or on the television. A fancy school with nice things and lots of resources was a real shocker--I felt like I had won the lottery. Except it came at a price. Like being asked if I was in the wrong classroom when I attended advanced and honors classes. Like having a teacher force me to repeat Algebra after 7th grade because he didn't believe someone like me could do the work, and having the school administrators and the county administrators back him fully, despite my grades, my assignments and my skills. I could go on and on. My dad always acknowledged the unfairness of it all and fought back as much as he could. But he also was clear with me about what was happening and why. I learned very quickly that as a black person, I had to work twice as hard to get half as much. And sometimes I have had to settle for second best in order to get a foot in the door. I got into an Ivy (on my own merit, thank you), but didn't have the money to make up the last 4K in tuition (and they wouldn't help). The message was clear there, too: We'll let you in but we won't help you. I had ample experience with the kinds of roadblocks the privileged will put in your way. Prove it. Prove yourself. It is exhausting. So I went to college elsewhere. On a full scholarship. Got excellent grades. Went straight to graduate school and got a PhD. Have a dream job and make plenty of money. And still, I see the look of surprise when I walk into a room.

Not having to think about those things is privilege.

Anonymous wrote:There is also privilege in being unprivileged. We should acknowledge that as well.

Neither of my parents went to college. One parent only has an 8th grade education. I was embarrassed by this fact until my high school guidance counselor showed me how it would be a good thing and work to my advantage. She told me that colleges loved someone like me who'd persevered through all the challenges and still managed to be a 4.0 student. I didn't really trust her 100% until I took the PSATs. I scored a 1540 and colleges started bombarding me with calls and invites to tour their campuses. I got a 1570 on my SATs and the recruiting intensified. With the help of my guidance counselor, I was able to visit most schools for free by utilizing their financial aid departments. There's no way my parents could afford trips like that for me to take tours.

The fact that I had under-educated, blue collar parents worked to my advantage and helped me get into an Ivy. Yes, I had excellent grades and test scores, but without the guidance and knowledge of my counselor, I would have ignored all of those offers for tours and never have applied to any Ivy league schools. Before that I was 100% planning on attending George Mason so I could live at home and save money that way. That's still privilege, IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This entire discussion of privilege is just another example of how progressive ideas that should be widely accepted are destroyed by a strident, intolerant, punitive linguistic style. Ultimately we are talking about fairness and opportunity, but when you frame it as aggressively as we do in this “privilege” discussion, you lose anyone with common sense.

umm, no. you can frame this any way you want but people will always understand that college admissions are a zero sum game and that one person’s opportunity is a closed door for another person.

y

Perhaps in the elites. These days if you want to go to college that bad, you're going. I agree that tons of people don't belong there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This entire discussion of privilege is just another example of how progressive ideas that should be widely accepted are destroyed by a strident, intolerant, punitive linguistic style. Ultimately we are talking about fairness and opportunity, but when you frame it as aggressively as we do in this “privilege” discussion, you lose anyone with common sense.

umm, no. you can frame this any way you want but people will always understand that college admissions are a zero sum game and that one person’s opportunity is a closed door for another person.

Anonymous wrote:This entire discussion of privilege is just another example of how progressive ideas that should be widely accepted are destroyed by a strident, intolerant, punitive linguistic style. Ultimately we are talking about fairness and opportunity, but when you frame it as aggressively as we do in this “privilege” discussion, you lose anyone with common sense.

Anonymous wrote:Discussions like this make me unapologetic about any “privilege” you think I have. Congrats.

Anonymous wrote:Discussions like this make me unapologetic about any “privilege” you think I have. Congrats.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fck off. I worked for my "privilege". My parents were the first in my family to go to college. I resent this being counted against my kids for purely political reasons.

You really don’t get it apparently.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw. No one in the building works harder than the janitorial staff. And many of them have second and third jobs. Lots of people work hard. But their hard work doesn’t help their kids like mine does.

Bravo, bravo

time to bring this full circle

this isn't a discussion about working hard

this is a discussion about penalizing certain groups of people for "privilege"

as others have said you need to level the playing field from day one not punish people who are successful

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fck off. I worked for my "privilege". My parents were the first in my family to go to college. I resent this being counted against my kids for purely political reasons.

You really don’t get it apparently.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw. No one in the building works harder than the janitorial staff. And many of them have second and third jobs. Lots of people work hard. But their hard work doesn’t help their kids like mine does.

Bravo, bravo