Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So often, what's in the gospels is a matter of interpretation -- not knowledge. Different denominations see things different ways, or sometimes even within a denomination, there are different interpretations.or interpretations change over time (e.g., using the Bible to condone slavery). The survey wasn't measuring any of that -- it was measuring empirical knowledge -- e.g., the names of the 4 gospels, What is the ascension? the assumption?

The Pew survey didn’t ask about the ascension or the assumption. It asked a total of 5 questions about Christianity, of which 3 concerned leading figures in the religion— Mother Theresa (was she Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu?), Martin Luther (who inspired the Reformation?) and Jonathan Edwards (who preached during the Great Awakening?). Nothing, nada, zip, zilch asking what the Reformation or Great Awakening were all about.

In other words, it was measuring empirical knowledge, for example (e.g.,)-- only things that were facts, like the examples above (names attributed to the 4 gospels and names for the beliefs that Jesus and Mary went bodily into heavan.

What your above example tells me is that more atheists, Mormons and Jews knew who Christian figures were than Christians did.

Actually, the Pew write-up pp linked to says atheists, Mormons and Jews did better than Christians when asked the full range of questions about *all* religions. (Which religion aims at Nirvana? Is Ramadan Islam’s holy month, the Hindu festival of lights, or the Jewish day of atonement?)

On the Christian questions specifically, the Mormons and Evangelicals knew the most. For example, 73% of Mormons and 71% of evangelicals could name all four gospels, compared to 39% of atheists and just 17% of Jews.

Your misunderstanding here is understandable, though. It’s a direct result of atheist pp’s suggestion that the survey “data” supposedly show atheists know more about Christianity than Christians do. No, the survey didn’t find that, and Pew’s write-up actually says the opposite.

But honestly, knowing who Martin Luther was is pretty insignificant compared to understanding his theology and how that translated into other Protestant theologies. Or the message in the four gospels. None of which was asked.

PP did NOT say that or suggest that. Despite your continued butthurt.

I find it pretty interesting how Christians fared on basic knowledge of other religions...

I still don’t understand what atheists are doing in the religion forum. Their motives for being here are disingenuous at best.

Whatever the case, explaining that atheist pp’s got the survey back-asswards (in pp’s link, Pew actually found that Christians knew more about their religion than atheists or Jews) shouldn’t be so hard, or require pages of explanation.

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. If only people read their own links before claiming they show something they don’t.

Or it’s straight-up dishonesty.

Sigh. If only people read their own links before claiming they show something they don’t.

Reposting for format.

[quote=Anonymous]
In other words, it was measuring empirical knowledge, for example (e.g.,)-- only things that were facts, like the examples above (names attributed to the 4 gospels and names for the beliefs that Jesus and Mary went bodily into heavan.

What your above example tells me is that more atheists, Mormons and Jews knew who Christian figures were than Christians did.[/quote]

Actually, the Pew write-up pp linked to says atheists, Mormons and Jews did better than Christians when asked the full range of questions about *all* religions. (Which religion aims at Nirvana? Is Ramadan Islam’s holy month, the Hindu festival of lights, or the Jewish day of atonement?)

On the Christian questions specifically, the Mormons and Evangelicals knew the most. For example, 73% of Mormons and 71% of evangelicals could name all four gospels, compared to 39% of atheists and just 17% of Jews.

Your misunderstanding here is understandable, though. It’s a direct result of atheist pp’s suggestion that the survey “data” supposedly show atheists know more about Christianity than Christians do. No, the survey didn’t find that, and Pew’s write-up actually says the opposite.

But honestly, knowing who Martin Luther was is pretty insignificant compared to understanding his theology and how that translated into other Protestant theologies. Or the message in the four gospels. None of which was asked. It didn’t ask about the Ascension, contrary to your statement above.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

So often, what's in the gospels is a matter of interpretation -- not knowledge. Different denominations see things different ways, or sometimes even within a denomination, there are different interpretations.or interpretations change over time (e.g., using the Bible to condone slavery). The survey wasn't measuring any of that -- it was measuring empirical knowledge -- e.g., the names of the 4 gospels, What is the ascension? the assumption?[/quote]

The Pew survey didn’t ask about the ascension or the assumption. It asked a total of 5 questions about Christianity, of which 3 concerned leading figures in the religion— Mother Theresa (was she Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu?), Martin Luther (who inspired the Reformation?) and Jonathan Edwards (who preached during the Great Awakening?). Nothing, nada, zip, zilch asking what the Reformation or Great Awakening were all about.[/quote]

In other words, it was measuring empirical knowledge, for example (e.g.,)-- only things that were facts, like the examples above (names attributed to the 4 gospels and names for the beliefs that Jesus and Mary went bodily into heavan.

What your above example tells me is that more atheists, Mormons and Jews knew who Christian figures were than Christians did.[/quote]

Actually, the Pew write-up pp linked to says atheists, Mormons and Jews did better than Christians when asked the full range of questions about *all* religions. (Which religion aims at Nirvana? Is Ramadan Islam’s holy month, the Hindu festival of lights, or the Jewish day of atonement?)

On the Christian questions specifically, the Mormons and Evangelicals knew the most. For example, 73% of Mormons and 71% of evangelicals could name all four gospels, compared to 39% of atheists and just 17% of Jews.

Your misunderstanding here is understandable, though. It’s a direct result of atheist pp’s suggestion that the survey “data” supposedly show atheists know more about Christianity than Christians do. No, the survey didn’t find that, and Pew’s write-up actually says the opposite.

But honestly, knowing who Martin Luther was is pretty insignificant compared to understanding his theology and how that translated into other Protestant theologies. Or the message in the four gospels. None of which was asked.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

So often, what's in the gospels is a matter of interpretation -- not knowledge. Different denominations see things different ways, or sometimes even within a denomination, there are different interpretations.or interpretations change over time (e.g., using the Bible to condone slavery). The survey wasn't measuring any of that -- it was measuring empirical knowledge -- e.g., the names of the 4 gospels, What is the ascension? the assumption?[/quote]

The Pew survey didn’t ask about the ascension or the assumption. It asked a total of 5 questions about Christianity, of which 3 concerned leading figures in the religion— Mother Theresa (was she Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu?), Martin Luther (who inspired the Reformation?) and Jonathan Edwards (who preached during the Great Awakening?). Nothing, nada, zip, zilch asking what the Reformation or Great Awakening were all about.[/quote]

In other words, it was measuring empirical knowledge, for example (e.g.,)-- only things that were facts, like the examples above (names attributed to the 4 gospels and names for the beliefs that Jesus and Mary went bodily into heavan.

What your above example tells me is that more atheists, Mormons and Jews knew who Christian figures were than Christians did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s make your deception clear by truncating the long passages and getting right to the point.

Anonymous wrote:
pp DID not "misrepresent" the data.

Also the only arguments against that data have been unsupported generalizations.

Unsupported? PP provided actual questions from the survey asking, for example, where Jesus was born and when the Jewish sabbath starts.

This is hugely better than “pp” (aka you?) trying to claim this extremely general survey represents “actual data” (per 20:19) about how much atheists know about religion.

Do you have an honest bone in your body?

Argumentative and likely Christian pp may be feeling defensive, hating the idea that atheists (and Jews and Mormons) know more about religions than Christians do, so is trying to refute the study and various pp's motives and honesty, even to the point of putting words in their mouths.

And here’s another poster who was misled by atheist pp’s deceptive claim that the survey showed anything more than whether atheists know where Jesus was born and that India is majority Hindu.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s make your deception clear by truncating the long passages and getting right to the point.

Anonymous wrote:
pp DID not "misrepresent" the data.

Also the only arguments against that data have been unsupported generalizations.

Unsupported? PP provided actual questions from the survey asking, for example, where Jesus was born and when the Jewish sabbath starts.

This is hugely better than “pp” (aka you?) trying to claim this extremely general survey represents “actual data” (per 20:19) about how much atheists know about religion.

Do you have an honest bone in your body?

All of them, unlike you. And despite your baseless accusation, I am not the PP. But baseless arguments are your domain, so that matches at least.

And yes, your objection to the data is completely unsupported by other data. That's what unsupported means, and how proof works.

So you offer up a bunch of ad hominems.

And you try to argue that citing the actual survey questions has no bearing on your sleazy inferences about a survey that was never designed to measure what you claim it measures.

Do you think atheists are happy to be represented by you?

Anonymous wrote:Let’s make your deception clear by truncating the long passages and getting right to the point.

Anonymous wrote:
pp DID not "misrepresent" the data.

Also the only arguments against that data have been unsupported generalizations.

Unsupported? PP provided actual questions from the survey asking, for example, where Jesus was born and when the Jewish sabbath starts.

This is hugely better than “pp” (aka you?) trying to claim this extremely general survey represents “actual data” (per 20:19) about how much atheists know about religion.

Do you have an honest bone in your body?

Seems like you misinterpreted PP's post about the survey. It was clearly presented and supported the earlier comment.

If you think otherwise, please feel free to share your own "survey" that supports your theory.

Anonymous wrote:Let’s make your deception clear by truncating the long passages and getting right to the point.

Anonymous wrote:
pp DID not "misrepresent" the data.

Also the only arguments against that data have been unsupported generalizations.

Unsupported? PP provided actual questions from the survey asking, for example, where Jesus was born and when the Jewish sabbath starts.

This is hugely better than “pp” (aka you?) trying to claim this extremely general survey represents “actual data” (per 20:19) about how much atheists know about religion.

Do you have an honest bone in your body?

Argumentative and likely Christian pp may be feeling defensive, hating the idea that atheists (and Jews and Mormons) know more about religions than Christians do, so is trying to refute the study and various pp's motives and honesty, even to the point of putting words in their mouths.

[quote=Anonymous]

So often, what's in the gospels is a matter of interpretation -- not knowledge. Different denominations see things different ways, or sometimes even within a denomination, there are different interpretations.or interpretations change over time (e.g., using the Bible to condone slavery). The survey wasn't measuring any of that -- it was measuring empirical knowledge -- e.g., the names of the 4 gospels, What is the ascension? the assumption?[/quote]

The Pew survey didn’t ask about the ascension or the assumption. It asked a total of 5 questions about Christianity, of which 3 concerned leading figures in the religion— Mother Theresa (was she Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu?), Martin Luther (who inspired the Reformation?) and Jonathan Edwards (who preached during the Great Awakening?). Nothing, nada, zip, zilch asking what the Reformation or Great Awakening were all about.

Anonymous wrote:Let’s make your deception clear by truncating the long passages and getting right to the point.

Anonymous wrote:
pp DID not "misrepresent" the data.

Also the only arguments against that data have been unsupported generalizations.

Unsupported? PP provided actual questions from the survey asking, for example, where Jesus was born and when the Jewish sabbath starts.

This is hugely better than “pp” (aka you?) trying to claim this extremely general survey represents “actual data” (per 20:19) about how much atheists know about religion.

Do you have an honest bone in your body?

All of them, unlike you. And despite your baseless accusation, I am not the PP. But baseless arguments are your domain, so that matches at least.

And yes, your objection to the data is completely unsupported by other data. That's what unsupported means, and how proof works.

This thread is pretty funny.