Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, either you work 10 months and then divide your salary over those 10 months, in which case it's higher but you aren't working those two months... OR you work 12 months and divide you salary over those 12 months and make less per month.

The reason we should pay teachers more is to get smarter people competing for the jobs.

Yup, there's a lot to complain about. There are a lot in most jobs especially mission-based jobs that don't have high requirements for entry.

NP (a teacher). So tired of hearing this! I too, had a challenging career before becoming a teacher. I went to a top-flight college, as did many of my teacher colleagues. We ARE smart and can match wits with anyone in the private sector, thank you very much.

But this is the problem with the whole argument. I don't think anybody here has said teachers are adequately paid: you're not. But if you're doing a really difficult job for little money, either it's worth it to you for some reason or you have no better options. If you have options - which I believe is the case for most teachers - then please own the fact you're choosing this despite its drawbacks and quit complaining. That's all people are saying.

When I got my teaching degree in 1996, school was incredibly different, and parents were incredibly different. There was no national or state curriculum and no standards-based grading. Most kids did not have some disorder or another and there weren't endless accommodations for “conditions.” Teachers weren’t threatened with repercussions for saying “ok, boys and girls...” We weren’t expected to buy kids’ supplies and snacks.

Don’t dare blame me for taking issue with how my profession - for which I've spent so much time and momey on education, licensure, training — has changed.

BS. When I got my law degree, you could still make partner by being an affable person who did good legal work. You didn't have to work a million hours or generate business as an associate. But the profession changed for the worse, so I went and did something else. If I had stayed but complained about it, you wouldn't have wanted to hear that either.

I’m a teacher and suspect we’re about the same age, and I too think the teaching profession has changed. However, I totally disagree with the things you take issue with. “Conditions” didn’t just suddenly materialize and if you were doing your job, you would have been providing needed accommodations to kids who needed them long before IDEA mandated services. My guess is that you are coasting and haven’t stayed current on best practices.

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing...teachers not only have to teach, but they are required to wear all the many hats that caring adults must wear to educate the whole child. Plus deal with all the extra baggage that teaching brings. All of us have to deal with pressure at work, but most are not immersed in an environment where we have to perform our jobs amidst outrageous behavior intended to derail our success (by both students and administration in some cases)and physical and verbal abuse. Are there other professions where people throw chairs at you? When you go to work do you have to break up fistfights?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think part of the reason teachers think they are so unique is that most of us don't complain and share as much about the terrible aspects of our jobs as teachers. Maybe it's a professional culture thing, maybe its because it's easier for people to understand what teachers do having been students themselves.

I also suspect, having consulted with some elementary and high schools, but in a field not related to education, that many teachers have never not been in education. Some of course have, but I've posted here before how surprising I find it that across schools I find that the teachers especially (and to a lesser extent, administrators) aren't able to function in a way all my other nonprofit clients are- e.g., stuff that i would call "adult" work skills, such as participating in a meeting productively or working with other adults.

It could be a coincidence, but I've worked with a LOT of nonprofit clients and don't typically experience this impression... and yet almost always experience it with teachers.

It could mean teachers are people who couldn't function in other environments, but could also be that they can't get out once they are in.

Most importantly to my point, it shows that teachers may not have a clue about how other professions function- they think they are really, really unique in the challenges (and pay) when they are in fact in many ways completely the same (and in fact privileged). Maybe not on the specifics, but generally.

I also think they really like to talk about their specifics, but that's more of a personal vs. professional observation.

Wow. Your post shows just how ignorant and pompous you are. I find it surprising you've taken your minuscule interactions with people who are not even in education and overgeneralized your experiences to teachers. "Having been students themselves" DOES NOT mean people know what it is like to teach. Being a student and being a teacher are not even comparable. Your ill-informed opinion of teachers you do not even know is appalling. I would rather spend all day, every day with a complaining teacher than with someone like you.

-supporter of teachers

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think part of the reason teachers think they are so unique is that most of us don't complain and share as much about the terrible aspects of our jobs as teachers. Maybe it's a professional culture thing, maybe its because it's easier for people to understand what teachers do having been students themselves.

I also suspect, having consulted with some elementary and high schools, but in a field not related to education, that many teachers have never not been in education. Some of course have, but I've posted here before how surprising I find it that across schools I find that the teachers especially (and to a lesser extent, administrators) aren't able to function in a way all my other nonprofit clients are- e.g., stuff that i would call "adult" work skills, such as participating in a meeting productively or working with other adults.

It could be a coincidence, but I've worked with a LOT of nonprofit clients and don't typically experience this impression... and yet almost always experience it with teachers.

It could mean teachers are people who couldn't function in other environments, but could also be that they can't get out once they are in.

Most importantly to my point, it shows that teachers may not have a clue about how other professions function- they think they are really, really unique in the challenges (and pay) when they are in fact in many ways completely the same (and in fact privileged). Maybe not on the specifics, but generally.

I also think they really like to talk about their specifics, but that's more of a personal vs. professional observation.

Wow. Your post shows just how ignorant and pompous you are. I find it surprising you've taken your minuscule interactions with people who are not even in education and overgeneralized your experiences to teachers. "Having been students themselves" DOES NOT mean people know what it is like to teach. Being a student and being a teacher are not even comparable. Your ill-informed opinion of teachers you do not even know is appalling. I would rather spend all day, every day with a complaining teacher than with someone like you.

-supporter of teachers

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think part of the reason teachers think they are so unique is that most of us don't complain and share as much about the terrible aspects of our jobs as teachers. Maybe it's a professional culture thing, maybe its because it's easier for people to understand what teachers do having been students themselves.

I also suspect, having consulted with some elementary and high schools, but in a field not related to education, that many teachers have never not been in education. Some of course have, but I've posted here before how surprising I find it that across schools I find that the teachers especially (and to a lesser extent, administrators) aren't able to function in a way all my other nonprofit clients are- e.g., stuff that i would call "adult" work skills, such as participating in a meeting productively or working with other adults.

It could be a coincidence, but I've worked with a LOT of nonprofit clients and don't typically experience this impression... and yet almost always experience it with teachers.

It could mean teachers are people who couldn't function in other environments, but could also be that they can't get out once they are in.

Most importantly to my point, it shows that teachers may not have a clue about how other professions function- they think they are really, really unique in the challenges (and pay) when they are in fact in many ways completely the same (and in fact privileged). Maybe not on the specifics, but generally.

I also think they really like to talk about their specifics, but that's more of a personal vs. professional observation.

Wow. Your post shows just how ignorant and pompous you are. I find it surprising you've taken your minuscule interactions with people who are not even in education and overgeneralized your experiences to teachers. "Having been students themselves" DOES NOT mean people know what it is like to teach. Being a student and being a teacher are not even comparable. Your ill-informed opinion of teachers you do not even know is appalling. I would rather spend all day, every day with a complaining teacher than with someone like you.

-supporter of teachers