Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ PP was making the point that it's about BLACKNESS. You aren't given benefits of the doubt like people assuming you have good credit when you're black. So how do you explain African immigrants -- most of whom are also black and seem to be finding success just fine? You think the average white person sits their distinguishing between African black vs. American black with slave ancestors? GTFO. Slavery is an excuse AAs will hold for the rest of their lives. It's been 150 years -- YOU weren't personally affected -- maybe your grandparents were but it was probably your great grandparents.

All the arguments of -- oh bc my grandparents were slaves they didn't have family wealth to give us and now we can't get ahead are BS. More than one non-AA person has commented on here about NOT having school paid for, paying off loans, NOT getting down payments and cars etc. from parents, and STILL hitting a 7 figure net worths by themselves within 10-15 years of working. AAs can't do it - why - exactly?

How would you explain it? According to you African Americans have all the tools they need to succeed but use slavery as an excuse not to. Why on earth would anyone do that? Why on earth would anyone intentionally not succeed?

My alcoholic grandfather was physically abusive to my grandmother and mother (and my aunts and uncles) in the rural South. My grandmother and her kids had no way of escaping him. He finally left her in middle age. My grandmother went on to have a poor but happy life. My mother has some issues but she has a happy healthy relationship with her husband and children. My mom and grandmother never told me anything like, "Don't depend on a man" but the unspoken subtext to many of the things she taught me was, "Make your own money and take care of yourself." Even now, my husband and I both have good careers and could easily life off his salary alone and meet all of our financial goals, I just cannot quit my job. I think about my grandmother and how she would have killed to have a nice career so she could walk away and I just can't do it. And I will teach my daughter (and son) the same thing. This is a relatively benign example of how a single unhappy family situation can have an impact for four generations. It isn't really a stretch for most people to understand how the impact of slavery can affect generations. You don't have to support reparations or affirmative action or vote liberal (I don't) to acknowledge the damage of slavery.

I get your example -- that the subtle messaging in your family bc of your family history is that women shouldn't rely on men for money bc marriages can go bad. What is the subtle messaging in black families re slavery? Whites hate us and are unfair to us so we don't have to play their game? Ok -- don't. But aren't you then shooting yourself in the foot in terms of developing wealth and setting up your future generations for success? White people own American society, so if you don't want to play - don't -- doesn't hurt anyone but you, no? (I'm not white -- but in my family the messaging was to play the game to make $$ and be financially stable.)

Anonymous wrote:^ PP was making the point that it's about BLACKNESS. You aren't given benefits of the doubt like people assuming you have good credit when you're black. So how do you explain African immigrants -- most of whom are also black and seem to be finding success just fine? You think the average white person sits their distinguishing between African black vs. American black with slave ancestors? GTFO. Slavery is an excuse AAs will hold for the rest of their lives. It's been 150 years -- YOU weren't personally affected -- maybe your grandparents were but it was probably your great grandparents.

All the arguments of -- oh bc my grandparents were slaves they didn't have family wealth to give us and now we can't get ahead are BS. More than one non-AA person has commented on here about NOT having school paid for, paying off loans, NOT getting down payments and cars etc. from parents, and STILL hitting a 7 figure net worths by themselves within 10-15 years of working. AAs can't do it - why - exactly?

How would you explain it? According to you African Americans have all the tools they need to succeed but use slavery as an excuse not to. Why on earth would anyone do that? Why on earth would anyone intentionally not succeed?

My alcoholic grandfather was physically abusive to my grandmother and mother (and my aunts and uncles) in the rural South. My grandmother and her kids had no way of escaping him. He finally left her in middle age. My grandmother went on to have a poor but happy life. My mother has some issues but she has a happy healthy relationship with her husband and children. My mom and grandmother never told me anything like, "Don't depend on a man" but the unspoken subtext to many of the things she taught me was, "Make your own money and take care of yourself." Even now, my husband and I both have good careers and could easily life off his salary alone and meet all of our financial goals, I just cannot quit my job. I think about my grandmother and how she would have killed to have a nice career so she could walk away and I just can't do it. And I will teach my daughter (and son) the same thing. This is a relatively benign example of how a single unhappy family situation can have an impact for four generations. It isn't really a stretch for most people to understand how the impact of slavery can affect generations. You don't have to support reparations or affirmative action or vote liberal (I don't) to acknowledge the damage of slavery.

Something is broken in the lower middle class AA community. Back in the 60s-70s when there was MUCH more racism, when a black child talked about being an engineer or a nurse or anything -- the parents/grandparents used to tell them -- you're going to have to work hard and because you're black you're going to have to work 10x as hard as a white person to get the same opportunities. So if a white engineer could go to part time night school at Rutgers and get that job at GE, a black engineer will only get that job with a UPenn or MIT engineering degree. And my dad and my uncles did it as did so many of their friends, despite the fact that their parents were a maid and a retail store clerk so it's not like they were coming from such wealth or upper classes. And it put their kids -- my generation -- that much further ahead.

Now in the same demographic where people are retail workers, house cleaners etc., if dad is even around -- if they don't get what they want, they scream for equality and then quit/settle for whatever jobs and education. Yes equality would be nice, but come on. It's not happening in America probably ever so what exactly is wrong with the model of -- if you want to develop wealth, you will have to work 10x harder than white people?? I get that it isn't fair, but sitting there wallowing in the unfairness of it all is what holds the community back as a whole from a wealth perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ PP was making the point that it's about BLACKNESS. You aren't given benefits of the doubt like people assuming you have good credit when you're black. So how do you explain African immigrants -- most of whom are also black and seem to be finding success just fine? You think the average white person sits their distinguishing between African black vs. American black with slave ancestors? GTFO. Slavery is an excuse AAs will hold for the rest of their lives. It's been 150 years -- YOU weren't personally affected -- maybe your grandparents were but it was probably your great grandparents.

All the arguments of -- oh bc my grandparents were slaves they didn't have family wealth to give us and now we can't get ahead are BS. More than one non-AA person has commented on here about NOT having school paid for, paying off loans, NOT getting down payments and cars etc. from parents, and STILL hitting a 7 figure net worths by themselves within 10-15 years of working. AAs can't do it - why - exactly?

Well, because they aren't white people so they don't walk in the door with the right complexion to get the assumed trust and benefits and other goodwill that goes with it. But, you know that, you just want to be and remain stupid. That's OK. Progress will whoosh right on past you backwards racist folks, thankfully. The rest of us will do what you won't do.

Not everyone following that model is white BTW. Pretty sure most African immigrants aren't white. Pretty sure most Asians aren't white -- and not every Asian is getting the benefit of the doubt of being the "model minority" either. You AAs and your white defenders can do what you want. Sit there crying for 5 more generations re slavery which didn't affect you directly bc you didn't exist yet. Doesn't matter to the rest of us if you progress or not bc we're doing what we need to do for ourselves and for our future generations. You all aren't-- which means your future generations will continue to be behind financially as they are now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Doesn't matter what your grand or great grand or great great grandparent parent were or were not. We get it. There is NO family wealth being handed to you. Yet I'm still not sure why that precludes you from being a straight A student at any public high school in America (even in the inner city), getting yourself a heavily discounted education a state u, some far flung u throwing merit money at your, or any ivy if you're good enough to get in that'll let you go for free if your parents make under 60k. And then working the way up the corporate ranks.

And blackness in and of itself isn't an excuse. Yes I get it -- Americans don't like black people. But don't act like there are NO black people capable of making 100k or 150k in middle mgmt. kind of jobs -- bc they are out there. Blackness in and of itself isn't an excuse bc if it were, how the heck are the black Nigerians coming here doing the above??

I find it interesting that you have assumed that person is AA, and that if they ARE AA they aren't a straight A student earning that income you have deemed is something anyone is capable of earning. Says more about you, than the people you are talking about.

Doesn't matter if they're AA -- they could be a white person defending AAs and I'd say the same re AAs.

Anonymous wrote:^ PP was making the point that it's about BLACKNESS. You aren't given benefits of the doubt like people assuming you have good credit when you're black. So how do you explain African immigrants -- most of whom are also black and seem to be finding success just fine? You think the average white person sits their distinguishing between African black vs. American black with slave ancestors? GTFO. Slavery is an excuse AAs will hold for the rest of their lives. It's been 150 years -- YOU weren't personally affected -- maybe your grandparents were but it was probably your great grandparents.

All the arguments of -- oh bc my grandparents were slaves they didn't have family wealth to give us and now we can't get ahead are BS. More than one non-AA person has commented on here about NOT having school paid for, paying off loans, NOT getting down payments and cars etc. from parents, and STILL hitting a 7 figure net worths by themselves within 10-15 years of working. AAs can't do it - why - exactly?

+1

NP.

Culture and genetics. Immigrants (of all races) tend to self select for being driven and capable of taking risks in pursuit of success (thereby becoming immigrants in the first place.) Slaves were brought here forceably; on top of that, prior to being sold, they were first captured by other Africans during tribal spats and warfare, making them already losers in a competitive context. Genetics doesn't account for everything; culture plays a part too (and what an unfortunate part). It is what it is.

Anonymous wrote:^Doesn't matter what your grand or great grand or great great grandparent parent were or were not. We get it. There is NO family wealth being handed to you. Yet I'm still not sure why that precludes you from being a straight A student at any public high school in America (even in the inner city), getting yourself a heavily discounted education a state u, some far flung u throwing merit money at your, or any ivy if you're good enough to get in that'll let you go for free if your parents make under 60k. And then working the way up the corporate ranks.

And blackness in and of itself isn't an excuse. Yes I get it -- Americans don't like black people. But don't act like there are NO black people capable of making 100k or 150k in middle mgmt. kind of jobs -- bc they are out there. Blackness in and of itself isn't an excuse bc if it were, how the heck are the black Nigerians coming here doing the above??

I find it interesting that you have assumed that person is AA, and that if they ARE AA they aren't a straight A student earning that income you have deemed is something anyone is capable of earning. Says more about you, than the people you are talking about.

Anonymous wrote:^ PP was making the point that it's about BLACKNESS. You aren't given benefits of the doubt like people assuming you have good credit when you're black. So how do you explain African immigrants -- most of whom are also black and seem to be finding success just fine? You think the average white person sits their distinguishing between African black vs. American black with slave ancestors? GTFO. Slavery is an excuse AAs will hold for the rest of their lives. It's been 150 years -- YOU weren't personally affected -- maybe your grandparents were but it was probably your great grandparents.

All the arguments of -- oh bc my grandparents were slaves they didn't have family wealth to give us and now we can't get ahead are BS. More than one non-AA person has commented on here about NOT having school paid for, paying off loans, NOT getting down payments and cars etc. from parents, and STILL hitting a 7 figure net worths by themselves within 10-15 years of working. AAs can't do it - why - exactly?

Well, because they aren't white people so they don't walk in the door with the right complexion to get the assumed trust and benefits and other goodwill that goes with it. But, you know that, you just want to be and remain stupid. That's OK. Progress will whoosh right on past you backwards racist folks, thankfully. The rest of us will do what you won't do.

^Doesn't matter what your grand or great grand or great great grandparent parent were or were not. We get it. There is NO family wealth being handed to you. Yet I'm still not sure why that precludes you from being a straight A student at any public high school in America (even in the inner city), getting yourself a heavily discounted education a state u, some far flung u throwing merit money at your, or any ivy if you're good enough to get in that'll let you go for free if your parents make under 60k. And then working the way up the corporate ranks.

And blackness in and of itself isn't an excuse. Yes I get it -- Americans don't like black people. But don't act like there are NO black people capable of making 100k or 150k in middle mgmt. kind of jobs -- bc they are out there. Blackness in and of itself isn't an excuse bc if it were, how the heck are the black Nigerians coming here doing the above??

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was abolished 153 years ago. That means for someone to have been a working slave, they were born in 1858 AT BEST. 160 years ago. Someone who is 70 Today was born in 1948. Figure people had kids at 30 (even though it was closer to 20 back then). The 70 year olds parent would be born in 1918, their parent in 1888. So if you are 70 now, there is a slight chance your great grandparent was a slave.

Mathematically, no one living has a grandparent that was a slave.

Well sounds like that person was referencing their great-great grandparents (post said great grands were sharecroppers...) so perhaps your math is flawed

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ PP was making the point that it's about BLACKNESS. You aren't given benefits of the doubt like people assuming you have good credit when you're black. So how do you explain African immigrants -- most of whom are also black and seem to be finding success just fine? You think the average white person sits their distinguishing between African black vs. American black with slave ancestors? GTFO. Slavery is an excuse AAs will hold for the rest of their lives. It's been 150 years -- YOU weren't personally affected -- maybe your grandparents were but it was probably your great grandparents.

All the arguments of -- oh bc my grandparents were slaves they didn't have family wealth to give us and now we can't get ahead are BS. More than one non-AA person has commented on here about NOT having school paid for, paying off loans, NOT getting down payments and cars etc. from parents, and STILL hitting a 7 figure net worths by themselves within 10-15 years of working. AAs can't do it - why - exactly?

THIS.

It's a cultural/family issue. Watched the NFL draft and it was full of black guys like this -- and black families just DREAMING of the day their son will hit it big with a $10 mil NFL contract and the whole family is taken care of. Yet for every 1 guy in the draft that got drafted high enough that he'll get a $10-20 mil paid out over 4 yrs and his fam is set, there are 75 guys who got drafted low enough that their contract will be like $800k with NO guarantee that they actually make the team. The majority of them get cut by Sept in which case they're lucky if they walk out with 100k or 200k in hand. Now for normal people 100-200k at 22 would be a fantastic start life -- you go do on campus recruiting, get yourself a job by Jan and your 100k-200k is invested/down payment money etc. For these guys -- between the house or luxury car they promised mama and a luxury car for themselves, well that 100-200k is taken care of. Add to that that many enter the draft having left college without a degree (and having lost their scholarship bc they declared they were going pro) -- they can't go back to school bc they can't pay for it and they end up being personal trainers etc. to train the next gen of NFL hopefuls bc they have a vast 4 months of NFL experience or bouncing from team to team to try to get some kind of practice squad job. And yet this is the goal for more than 1 black family that I know!? Why graduate college and grind away in the big 4 for 100k and built your wealth that way when you can just go on the prayer of a $10mil NFL contract unlikely as it may be.

Anonymous wrote:^ PP was making the point that it's about BLACKNESS. You aren't given benefits of the doubt like people assuming you have good credit when you're black. So how do you explain African immigrants -- most of whom are also black and seem to be finding success just fine? You think the average white person sits their distinguishing between African black vs. American black with slave ancestors? GTFO. Slavery is an excuse AAs will hold for the rest of their lives. It's been 150 years -- YOU weren't personally affected -- maybe your grandparents were but it was probably your great grandparents.

All the arguments of -- oh bc my grandparents were slaves they didn't have family wealth to give us and now we can't get ahead are BS. More than one non-AA person has commented on here about NOT having school paid for, paying off loans, NOT getting down payments and cars etc. from parents, and STILL hitting a 7 figure net worths by themselves within 10-15 years of working. AAs can't do it - why - exactly?

THIS.

Slavery was abolished 153 years ago. That means for someone to have been a working slave, they were born in 1858 AT BEST. 160 years ago. Someone who is 70 Today was born in 1948. Figure people had kids at 30 (even though it was closer to 20 back then). The 70 year olds parent would be born in 1918, their parent in 1888. So if you are 70 now, there is a slight chance your great grandparent was a slave.

Mathematically, no one living has a grandparent that was a slave.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: White people: both the cause of, and the solution to, all black people problems.

In the meanwhile all other immigrants and poors are not waiting to be rescued by Whites. 30 more years and the Hispanics will not be the low performing or poor community. Unless, dole is contagious.

All other immigrants and poors come from different circumstances than black people here. Black people here are still treated poorly. Immigrants are seen as hard workers and blacks are seen as not. So not the truth when I think about my own co-workers.
White people treat American born black people badly, and many immigrants have joined them: "we work hard, why can't they?". I'm poor and an immigrant, but nobody has ever question me like people here question black people. My English sucks and I had no work papers for the longest time. None of it mattered when it came to getting a job. My whiteness got me those jobs. I've been offered a job while walking in the mall, I've got rentals because I have credit (I didn't) and so on. I don't know how to tell you all that I literally have that something extra that makes my life super easy. I suspect black people don't have it and quite the opposite - they have that something that makes everybody question them, and I question them too. I'm aware of it, I'm working on it, but it will not leave me any time soon or never.
"30 more years and the Hispanics will not be the low performing or poor community". Not the way they are now. They will be low class, middle class and UMC, just like any other group that has lived here for awhile.

So how do you explain African inmigrants? Black as can be yet Nigerians are snagging tons of Ivy League spots in recent years. Their blackness doesn’t hold them back despite being new to America yet AAs born here 100-150 years after slavery claim blackness and slavery as excuses?? GTFO

Many immigrants coming in from Africa are from wealthy families.

Most are from middle/UMC families in their own countries - not wealthy. Lets be real if you have TRUE wealth in the developing world, you don't come to America to start over. You could when you're in the "middle" in those countries -- "wealthy" enough that your family can provide you an education at a English speaking primary school and then college, but not so wealthy that they can just hand over a family business and property to you. In those kinds of developing world countries, it's the middle class that has a hard time -- they aren't "preferred" for jobs bc they aren't rich/powerful families, they have the education to get ahead but not the opportunities. That's when you immigrate to America to see if you can get ahead. Was the same for generations of Asians who came -- wealthy enough to be college grads, not powerful enough to get ahead in their own countries. These types of Africans aren't coming over here with family money -- they're usually coming with a few thousand dollars and a few suitcases of goods to get started.

^ PP was making the point that it's about BLACKNESS. You aren't given benefits of the doubt like people assuming you have good credit when you're black. So how do you explain African immigrants -- most of whom are also black and seem to be finding success just fine? You think the average white person sits their distinguishing between African black vs. American black with slave ancestors? GTFO. Slavery is an excuse AAs will hold for the rest of their lives. It's been 150 years -- YOU weren't personally affected -- maybe your grandparents were but it was probably your great grandparents.

All the arguments of -- oh bc my grandparents were slaves they didn't have family wealth to give us and now we can't get ahead are BS. More than one non-AA person has commented on here about NOT having school paid for, paying off loans, NOT getting down payments and cars etc. from parents, and STILL hitting a 7 figure net worths by themselves within 10-15 years of working. AAs can't do it - why - exactly?