Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am from Sweden where we have dramatically lower cancer rates than your country because we use pasteurized oral tobacco instead of cigarettes. These products have no correlation to cancer whatsoever, something you don't know because your FDA won't allow you to know it.

Whoa whoa whoa. There is so much more to this than "the FDA won't allow you to know it." Do you have ANY IDEA what had to be done to break the hold the cigarette industry had on this country? Do you know how hard it was to actually convince people that smoking cigarettes caused lung cancer? Do you know how hard it was to have those warning labels placed on cigarette packs and remove commercials from TV and stop ads from targeting kids?

You don't just casually ignore all that effort and progress because there's a form of tobacco from one country that appears to have fewer significant health risks. Not even the EU allows snus.

Appears -- there are forty years of data. But you can lie about the science if it helps you control your kids better. Work that into the lesson plan.

How about that nicotine? Any way to discount the nicotine in snus?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am from Sweden where we have dramatically lower cancer rates than your country because we use pasteurized oral tobacco instead of cigarettes. These products have no correlation to cancer whatsoever, something you don't know because your FDA won't allow you to know it.

Whoa whoa whoa. There is so much more to this than "the FDA won't allow you to know it." Do you have ANY IDEA what had to be done to break the hold the cigarette industry had on this country? Do you know how hard it was to actually convince people that smoking cigarettes caused lung cancer? Do you know how hard it was to have those warning labels placed on cigarette packs and remove commercials from TV and stop ads from targeting kids?

You don't just casually ignore all that effort and progress because there's a form of tobacco from one country that appears to have fewer significant health risks. Not even the EU allows snus.

Appears -- there are forty years of data. But you can lie about the science if it helps you control your kids better. Work that into the lesson plan.

NP, sorry to go off topic but I thought this was interesting so I looked into it more. It looks like there's no doubt that the Swedish method for making snuff has less harmful chemicals, but I'm seeing conflicting reports on whether or not it's linked to cancer. A quick search turned up these, and I stopped after the first page of hits.

Linked to pancreas cancer but not mouth or lung: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673607606783
Oral and pharyngeal cancer: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.23469
Pancreas again: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.20811

There are some epidemiological studies done in the late 90s that showed no link between snus and cancer, and that was the prevailing assumption in the 2000s. These other papers are more recent.

So while there is no doubt that snus are better than smoking cigarettes, PP needs to show some actual data discrediting these other studies before she can declare there are forty years of data showing no link to cancer. You know, work it into the lesson plan.

Anyway, I know this is off topic but I wanted to throw some caution into the discussion before people go running out to buy this magic tobacco. (Also, it looks like the Swedish method of manufacturing is way superior to the US versions, but it begs the question as to why US manufacturers and the rest of the EU haven't adopted it. Instead they use their own version like Marlboro snus.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am from Sweden where we have dramatically lower cancer rates than your country because we use pasteurized oral tobacco instead of cigarettes. These products have no correlation to cancer whatsoever, something you don't know because your FDA won't allow you to know it.

Whoa whoa whoa. There is so much more to this than "the FDA won't allow you to know it." Do you have ANY IDEA what had to be done to break the hold the cigarette industry had on this country? Do you know how hard it was to actually convince people that smoking cigarettes caused lung cancer? Do you know how hard it was to have those warning labels placed on cigarette packs and remove commercials from TV and stop ads from targeting kids?

You don't just casually ignore all that effort and progress because there's a form of tobacco from one country that appears to have fewer significant health risks. Not even the EU allows snus.

Appears -- there are forty years of data. But you can lie about the science if it helps you control your kids better. Work that into the lesson plan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Vaping is pretty harmless. This is a lot of hysteria.

No, it isnt "pretty harmless" at all. It is highly addictive and the chemicals being used are not well studied although there are allegations and hypothesis that many of the chemicals are highly carcinogenic. Scientists have found a number of harmful chemicals in e-cigarette vapors including formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. There are reports of vaping causing bleeding mouths and throats. And these bloody sores seemed slow to heal - imagine therefore what may be going on in the lungs. Overall really, really bad for anyone, especially teenagers whose brains arent fully developed. Plus, for kids like mine who have major athletic goals on top of their academic goals, its even worse.

Read up PP:

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping
https://www.centeronaddiction.org/e-cigarettes/recreational-vaping?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89GgpfKK2wIVjtlkCh1-6wmJEAAYASAAEgIyiPD_BwE
http://www.rehabcenter.net/dangers-of-vaping-e-cigs/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/e-cigs-and-second-hand-vaping/
AND from the CDC, https://www.cdc.gov/features/ecigarettes-young-people/index.html

Ok, you are a hysteric.

Show me a single study that finds formaldehyde in Juul.

Show me a single news report of a Juul exploding.

The fact is that that lots of stuff in your food, your cosmetics and yes, your ethical drugs is not fully studied for health. You are happily imbibing these things, and you have this reefer madness hysteria about Juul.

Yes, nicotine is addictive. So is caffeine, alcohol, and various adrenaline inducing sports. SO is sex for that matter.

You say nicotine is addictive. OK. Your position is even though it is addictive, it’s not so bad because there are other bad things in the world and no one is upset about those? Regardless of whether vaping is/is not harmful, your argument is weak.

Ok, get hysterical about teens drinking a beer, or taking a coffee. Typical American prude! What a country you Puritans have. Magnificent. Keep making it Great.

I am not hysterical (note no exclamation marks). I am pointing out that the PPs argument that people use addictive substances all the time so vaping, which delivers nicotine - an addictive substance by PP’s admission, is pretty harmless is lame. Talk to me about how addictive substances such as nicotine and alcohol are harmless.

What country are you from, BTW? Just for context.

I am from Sweden where we have dramatically lower cancer rates than your country because we use pasteurized oral tobacco instead of cigarettes. These products have no correlation to cancer whatsoever, something you don't know because your FDA won't allow you to know it.

Snus delivers nicotine, correct?

Anonymous wrote:
I am from Sweden where we have dramatically lower cancer rates than your country because we use pasteurized oral tobacco instead of cigarettes. These products have no correlation to cancer whatsoever, something you don't know because your FDA won't allow you to know it.

Whoa whoa whoa. There is so much more to this than "the FDA won't allow you to know it." Do you have ANY IDEA what had to be done to break the hold the cigarette industry had on this country? Do you know how hard it was to actually convince people that smoking cigarettes caused lung cancer? Do you know how hard it was to have those warning labels placed on cigarette packs and remove commercials from TV and stop ads from targeting kids?

You don't just casually ignore all that effort and progress because there's a form of tobacco from one country that appears to have fewer significant health risks. Not even the EU allows snus.

Snus has been in the states for a decade or so now. All the major tobacco companies have a brand of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Vaping is pretty harmless. This is a lot of hysteria.

No, it isnt "pretty harmless" at all. It is highly addictive and the chemicals being used are not well studied although there are allegations and hypothesis that many of the chemicals are highly carcinogenic. Scientists have found a number of harmful chemicals in e-cigarette vapors including formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. There are reports of vaping causing bleeding mouths and throats. And these bloody sores seemed slow to heal - imagine therefore what may be going on in the lungs. Overall really, really bad for anyone, especially teenagers whose brains arent fully developed. Plus, for kids like mine who have major athletic goals on top of their academic goals, its even worse.

Read up PP:

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping
https://www.centeronaddiction.org/e-cigarettes/recreational-vaping?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89GgpfKK2wIVjtlkCh1-6wmJEAAYASAAEgIyiPD_BwE
http://www.rehabcenter.net/dangers-of-vaping-e-cigs/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/e-cigs-and-second-hand-vaping/
AND from the CDC, https://www.cdc.gov/features/ecigarettes-young-people/index.html

Ok, you are a hysteric.

Show me a single study that finds formaldehyde in Juul.

Show me a single news report of a Juul exploding.

The fact is that that lots of stuff in your food, your cosmetics and yes, your ethical drugs is not fully studied for health. You are happily imbibing these things, and you have this reefer madness hysteria about Juul.

Yes, nicotine is addictive. So is caffeine, alcohol, and various adrenaline inducing sports. SO is sex for that matter.

You say nicotine is addictive. OK. Your position is even though it is addictive, it’s not so bad because there are other bad things in the world and no one is upset about those? Regardless of whether vaping is/is not harmful, your argument is weak.

Ok, get hysterical about teens drinking a beer, or taking a coffee. Typical American prude! What a country you Puritans have. Magnificent. Keep making it Great.

I am not hysterical (note no exclamation marks). I am pointing out that the PPs argument that people use addictive substances all the time so vaping, which delivers nicotine - an addictive substance by PP’s admission, is pretty harmless is lame. Talk to me about how addictive substances such as nicotine and alcohol are harmless.

What country are you from, BTW? Just for context.

I am from Sweden where we have dramatically lower cancer rates than your country because we use pasteurized oral tobacco instead of cigarettes. These products have no correlation to cancer whatsoever, something you don't know because your FDA won't allow you to know it.

Also this - wet lungs after 3 weeks of vaping. Sure it doesn't happen to everyone but... https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/17/health/case-study-teen-vaping-wet-lung/index.html

This is pretty gruesome...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/05/16/man-killed-by-exploding-vape-pen-is-first-e-cigarette-casualty-in-us/amp/

Anonymous wrote:I don't know about other parents on this thread, but my teenagers need every single brain cell they have in their heads. There are days when I'm convinced that my 16 yo has no frontal lobe whatsoever.

So, I do not want my kids vaping, drinking, smoking weed, or doing anything that messes with their development until their brains are a little more cooked. I'd also like them to be of legal age, and/or be smart enough to not get caught. It's not a moral issue for me, it's a health and brain thing.

this plus is this the way they will deal with life? are they that unhappy?

are they feeling that bad they need heavy chemicals, alcohol or rec drugs to feel good about anything?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Vaping is pretty harmless. This is a lot of hysteria.

No, it isnt "pretty harmless" at all. It is highly addictive and the chemicals being used are not well studied although there are allegations and hypothesis that many of the chemicals are highly carcinogenic. Scientists have found a number of harmful chemicals in e-cigarette vapors including formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. There are reports of vaping causing bleeding mouths and throats. And these bloody sores seemed slow to heal - imagine therefore what may be going on in the lungs. Overall really, really bad for anyone, especially teenagers whose brains arent fully developed. Plus, for kids like mine who have major athletic goals on top of their academic goals, its even worse.

Read up PP:

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping
https://www.centeronaddiction.org/e-cigarettes/recreational-vaping?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89GgpfKK2wIVjtlkCh1-6wmJEAAYASAAEgIyiPD_BwE
http://www.rehabcenter.net/dangers-of-vaping-e-cigs/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/e-cigs-and-second-hand-vaping/
AND from the CDC, https://www.cdc.gov/features/ecigarettes-young-people/index.html

Ok, you are a hysteric.

Show me a single study that finds formaldehyde in Juul.

Show me a single news report of a Juul exploding.

The fact is that that lots of stuff in your food, your cosmetics and yes, your ethical drugs is not fully studied for health. You are happily imbibing these things, and you have this reefer madness hysteria about Juul.

Yes, nicotine is addictive. So is caffeine, alcohol, and various adrenaline inducing sports. SO is sex for that matter.

You say nicotine is addictive. OK. Your position is even though it is addictive, it’s not so bad because there are other bad things in the world and no one is upset about those? Regardless of whether vaping is/is not harmful, your argument is weak.

Ok, get hysterical about teens drinking a beer, or taking a coffee. Typical American prude! What a country you Puritans have. Magnificent. Keep making it Great.

Great, go sit with your kids in your town square and smoke your apple hookah all afternoon then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Vaping is pretty harmless. This is a lot of hysteria.

No, it isnt "pretty harmless" at all. It is highly addictive and the chemicals being used are not well studied although there are allegations and hypothesis that many of the chemicals are highly carcinogenic. Scientists have found a number of harmful chemicals in e-cigarette vapors including formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. There are reports of vaping causing bleeding mouths and throats. And these bloody sores seemed slow to heal - imagine therefore what may be going on in the lungs. Overall really, really bad for anyone, especially teenagers whose brains arent fully developed. Plus, for kids like mine who have major athletic goals on top of their academic goals, its even worse.

Read up PP:

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping
https://www.centeronaddiction.org/e-cigarettes/recreational-vaping?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89GgpfKK2wIVjtlkCh1-6wmJEAAYASAAEgIyiPD_BwE
http://www.rehabcenter.net/dangers-of-vaping-e-cigs/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/e-cigs-and-second-hand-vaping/
AND from the CDC, https://www.cdc.gov/features/ecigarettes-young-people/index.html

Ok, you are a hysteric.

Show me a single study that finds formaldehyde in Juul.

Show me a single news report of a Juul exploding.

The fact is that that lots of stuff in your food, your cosmetics and yes, your ethical drugs is not fully studied for health. You are happily imbibing these things, and you have this reefer madness hysteria about Juul.

Yes, nicotine is addictive. So is caffeine, alcohol, and various adrenaline inducing sports. SO is sex for that matter.

You say nicotine is addictive. OK. Your position is even though it is addictive, it’s not so bad because there are other bad things in the world and no one is upset about those? Regardless of whether vaping is/is not harmful, your argument is weak.

Ok, get hysterical about teens drinking a beer, or taking a coffee. Typical American prude! What a country you Puritans have. Magnificent. Keep making it Great.

Go sit in your town square and smoke your apple hookah all afternoon then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Vaping is pretty harmless. This is a lot of hysteria.

No, it isnt "pretty harmless" at all. It is highly addictive and the chemicals being used are not well studied although there are allegations and hypothesis that many of the chemicals are highly carcinogenic. Scientists have found a number of harmful chemicals in e-cigarette vapors including formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. There are reports of vaping causing bleeding mouths and throats. And these bloody sores seemed slow to heal - imagine therefore what may be going on in the lungs. Overall really, really bad for anyone, especially teenagers whose brains arent fully developed. Plus, for kids like mine who have major athletic goals on top of their academic goals, its even worse.

Read up PP:

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping
https://www.centeronaddiction.org/e-cigarettes/recreational-vaping?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89GgpfKK2wIVjtlkCh1-6wmJEAAYASAAEgIyiPD_BwE
http://www.rehabcenter.net/dangers-of-vaping-e-cigs/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/e-cigs-and-second-hand-vaping/
AND from the CDC, https://www.cdc.gov/features/ecigarettes-young-people/index.html

Ok, you are a hysteric.

Show me a single study that finds formaldehyde in Juul.

Show me a single news report of a Juul exploding.

The fact is that that lots of stuff in your food, your cosmetics and yes, your ethical drugs is not fully studied for health. You are happily imbibing these things, and you have this reefer madness hysteria about Juul.

Yes, nicotine is addictive. So is caffeine, alcohol, and various adrenaline inducing sports. SO is sex for that matter.

You say nicotine is addictive. OK. Your position is even though it is addictive, it’s not so bad because there are other bad things in the world and no one is upset about those? Regardless of whether vaping is/is not harmful, your argument is weak.

Ok, get hysterical about teens drinking a beer, or taking a coffee. Typical American prude! What a country you Puritans have. Magnificent. Keep making it Great.

I am not hysterical (note no exclamation marks). I am pointing out that the PPs argument that people use addictive substances all the time so vaping, which delivers nicotine - an addictive substance by PP’s admission, is pretty harmless is lame. Talk to me about how addictive substances such as nicotine and alcohol are harmless.

What country are you from, BTW? Just for context.

I don't know about other parents on this thread, but my teenagers need every single brain cell they have in their heads. There are days when I'm convinced that my 16 yo has no frontal lobe whatsoever.

So, I do not want my kids vaping, drinking, smoking weed, or doing anything that messes with their development until their brains are a little more cooked. I'd also like them to be of legal age, and/or be smart enough to not get caught. It's not a moral issue for me, it's a health and brain thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Vaping is pretty harmless. This is a lot of hysteria.

No, it isnt "pretty harmless" at all. It is highly addictive and the chemicals being used are not well studied although there are allegations and hypothesis that many of the chemicals are highly carcinogenic. Scientists have found a number of harmful chemicals in e-cigarette vapors including formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. There are reports of vaping causing bleeding mouths and throats. And these bloody sores seemed slow to heal - imagine therefore what may be going on in the lungs. Overall really, really bad for anyone, especially teenagers whose brains arent fully developed. Plus, for kids like mine who have major athletic goals on top of their academic goals, its even worse.

Read up PP:

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping
https://www.centeronaddiction.org/e-cigarettes/recreational-vaping?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89GgpfKK2wIVjtlkCh1-6wmJEAAYASAAEgIyiPD_BwE
http://www.rehabcenter.net/dangers-of-vaping-e-cigs/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/e-cigs-and-second-hand-vaping/
AND from the CDC, https://www.cdc.gov/features/ecigarettes-young-people/index.html

Ok, you are a hysteric.

Show me a single study that finds formaldehyde in Juul.

Show me a single news report of a Juul exploding.

The fact is that that lots of stuff in your food, your cosmetics and yes, your ethical drugs is not fully studied for health. You are happily imbibing these things, and you have this reefer madness hysteria about Juul.

Yes, nicotine is addictive. So is caffeine, alcohol, and various adrenaline inducing sports. SO is sex for that matter.

You say nicotine is addictive. OK. Your position is even though it is addictive, it’s not so bad because there are other bad things in the world and no one is upset about those? Regardless of whether vaping is/is not harmful, your argument is weak.

Ok, get hysterical about teens drinking a beer, or taking a coffee. Typical American prude! What a country you Puritans have. Magnificent. Keep making it Great.

Um, both my kids have been drinking coffee for years (now 14 and 17) and beer is only out because its illegal. Vaping otoh, no f*ing way. Wayyyy worse health risk.