Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally pro-affirmative action but wouldn't a policy of affirmative action based on income work to accomplish the same goals AND take the wind out of the sails of the white nationalists?

I agree with this theoretically. But the issue is how do you prove someone is from poor socio-economic background. Income can be fudged many ways and wealthy whites/asians will work with their accountants to make themselves "financially look poor" for couple of years before their kids apply. Also does income alone change the social background of blacks? No. Many lower middle income or middle income blacks still live in a majority black neighborhood for family reasons.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone is looking for a leg up, no one wants to actually do the work to get ahead.

What do you mean by "do the work to get ahead" ? Define that? Asians also top any admission tests and do plenty of "extra-curricular" activities. So are you ok if Asians are over 50% in any top school, because based on any objective measure they sure deserve it.

NP. Absolutely. College admissions should be race-blind.

But it is not because that is surefire way to create a permanent underclass citizens with blacks, hispanics and white trash. Asians do well because they come from a very favorable socio-economic background. Once you have that advantage then it matters less which college you get into(an Ivy or Public Ivy). Asians are stuck in a virtuous loop of educated parents make money pass it on to their kids who get top education who make even more money.

But a if black student is denied admission into the top college then its like denying the entire black community for generations after. Blacks are stuck in a negative loop. Blacks don't score well because of social status and are relegated to a a weaker school and the negative loop continues. One or two exceptional student will break this cycle BUT most will not. Is this what you want? Where is upward mobility for blacks?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:identity politics, GOP style.

Well, to be fair, Identity Politics was indeed started by liberals.


Check your status here:

- black or African
- white
- Asian
- Hispanic
- Native American
- two or more races
- other
- in love with a tree
- polyamorous
- bisexual ambidextrous
- pansexual wiccan
- still deciding
- Brony


Each day, without fail, my middle school daughter would share some story about how another kid in her class has either switched gender or had embraced some other "form." I can no longer keep up.

So?

My rising junior dd recently filled out some info form on a college website. She was telling me that it not only presented about 10+ gender identity options, but the race question actually was phrased as "which race do you identify as." I suppose we can all just choose whatever we want now. It's like identity mad libs.

I fail to see the problem with this statement. I am half white and half URM. I always identify white. Remember your life experience is not universal to all.

Fine. Then I'm guessing it's OK if I identify as black?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very outdated stereotypes about Asian-Americans, pp. Calling multiple, very different cultures all cheaters. Claiming Asian-Americans don't do sports. Do you even know any Asian-American kids?

I have one kid at Oakton HS and one at TJ. These are not assumptions.

DP with a kid at TJ. And first, TJ has a huge problem with Asian students cheating. Full stop. I am not in a position to speak to any other high school or college. But TJ has a cheating problem, and the two big cheating rings that were busted this year were Asian. Yell and scream if you want, but it's a fact. And second-- lots of Asian kids do play sports there. Less football, basketball, softball, and more swimming, golf, crew. But they play sports.

Also, TJ is an excellent example of why having a school that is 75% Asian is a problem, and why a 75% Asian college is a bad idea. The lack of anyone who is different at TJ-- almost no AA, Hispanic, or low SES and a decreasing white population-- is creating problems. Cheating. Pressure. Mental Health issues. AAs Hispanic and whites don't want to go, to begin with. But also, the sameness of outlooks, values and culture takes something away from classroom discussions and learning to work with people who really are different than you. It's like sending a kid to Liberty. Nothing wrong with the value system there-- but in the real world, everyone is not the same.

Hmm, ok, so where is your ire at schools like Banneker that are 99% one race- objectively, SIGNIFICANTLY less diverse than TJ or literally every other high school in the area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:identity politics, GOP style.

Well, to be fair, Identity Politics was indeed started by liberals.


Check your status here:

- black or African
- white
- Asian
- Hispanic
- Native American
- two or more races
- other
- in love with a tree
- polyamorous
- bisexual ambidextrous
- pansexual wiccan
- still deciding
- Brony


Each day, without fail, my middle school daughter would share some story about how another kid in her class has either switched gender or had embraced some other "form." I can no longer keep up.

So?

My rising junior dd recently filled out some info form on a college website. She was telling me that it not only presented about 10+ gender identity options, but the race question actually was phrased as "which race do you identify as." I suppose we can all just choose whatever we want now. It's like identity mad libs.

I fail to see the problem with this statement. I am half white and half URM. I always identify white. Remember your life experience is not universal to all.

There is an absolute in this situation. You are white and you are (unspecified?) URM. Asking what one identifies as instead of what one is implies that there is no absolute.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally pro-affirmative action but wouldn't a policy of affirmative action based on income work to accomplish the same goals AND take the wind out of the sails of the white nationalists?

I agree with this theoretically. But the issue is how do you prove someone is from poor socio-economic background. Income can be fudged many ways and wealthy whites/asians will work with their accountants to make themselves "financially look poor" for couple of years before their kids apply. Also does income alone change the social background of blacks? No. Many lower middle income or middle income blacks still live in a majority black neighborhood for family reasons.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone is looking for a leg up, no one wants to actually do the work to get ahead.

What do you mean by "do the work to get ahead" ? Define that? Asians also top any admission tests and do plenty of "extra-curricular" activities. So are you ok if Asians are over 50% in any top school, because based on any objective measure they sure deserve it.

NP. Absolutely. College admissions should be race-blind.

Anonymous wrote:Why should a black student who has a 3.3 gpa, 1200 sat and who comes from an upper middle class background and has good extracurriculars get into better schools than a white middle class student with a 3.6 gpa, 1300 sat and good extracurriculars? This is reality to many Affirmative action should be on family income not race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:identity politics, GOP style.

Well, to be fair, Identity Politics was indeed started by liberals.


Check your status here:

- black or African
- white
- Asian
- Hispanic
- Native American
- two or more races
- other
- in love with a tree
- polyamorous
- bisexual ambidextrous
- pansexual wiccan
- still deciding
- Brony


Each day, without fail, my middle school daughter would share some story about how another kid in her class has either switched gender or had embraced some other "form." I can no longer keep up.

So?

My rising junior dd recently filled out some info form on a college website. She was telling me that it not only presented about 10+ gender identity options, but the race question actually was phrased as "which race do you identify as." I suppose we can all just choose whatever we want now. It's like identity mad libs.

I fail to see the problem with this statement. I am half white and half URM. I always identify white. Remember your life experience is not universal to all.

There is an absolute in this situation. You are white and you are (unspecified?) URM. Asking what one identifies as instead of what one is implies that there is no absolute.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very outdated stereotypes about Asian-Americans, pp. Calling multiple, very different cultures all cheaters. Claiming Asian-Americans don't do sports. Do you even know any Asian-American kids?

I have one kid at Oakton HS and one at TJ. These are not assumptions.

DP with a kid at TJ. And first, TJ has a huge problem with Asian students cheating. Full stop. I am not in a position to speak to any other high school or college. But TJ has a cheating problem, and the two big cheating rings that were busted this year were Asian. Yell and scream if you want, but it's a fact. And second-- lots of Asian kids do play sports there. Less football, basketball, softball, and more swimming, golf, crew. But they play sports.

Also, TJ is an excellent example of why having a school that is 75% Asian is a problem, and why a 75% Asian college is a bad idea. The lack of anyone who is different at TJ-- almost no AA, Hispanic, or low SES and a decreasing white population-- is creating problems. Cheating. Pressure. Mental Health issues. AAs Hispanic and whites don't want to go, to begin with. But also, the sameness of outlooks, values and culture takes something away from classroom discussions and learning to work with people who really are different than you. It's like sending a kid to Liberty. Nothing wrong with the value system there-- but in the real world, everyone is not the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally pro-affirmative action but wouldn't a policy of affirmative action based on income work to accomplish the same goals AND take the wind out of the sails of the white nationalists?

I agree with this theoretically. But the issue is how do you prove someone is from poor socio-economic background. Income can be fudged many ways and wealthy whites/asians will work with their accountants to make themselves "financially look poor" for couple of years before their kids apply. Also does income alone change the social background of blacks? No. Many lower middle income or middle income blacks still live in a majority black neighborhood for family reasons.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone is looking for a leg up, no one wants to actually do the work to get ahead.

What do you mean by "do the work to get ahead" ? Define that? Asians also top any admission tests and do plenty of "extra-curricular" activities. So are you ok if Asians are over 50% in any top school, because based on any objective measure they sure deserve it.

If they can rise above the culture of cheating, and if they are Asian Americans as opposed to international students, I feel that they deserve what they earn. Many Asian American families I know forbid sports and other pursuits and require the children to devote 99% of their free time to academics. That is not a lifestyle I would choose, but I assume children of any race would excel in academics with that strategy. I prioritize a well rounded and less stressful childhood over such an academic focus, and I am willing to allow my kids to "suffer" through less than an elite college in order to allow them other pursuits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out this chart to see exactly how this effect plays out in admissions to medical schools.



Article discussing it is here:

http://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-at-us-medical-schools-in-2015-reveal-ongoing-discrimination-against-asian-americans-and-whites/

You seem to believe this chart demonstrates a problem But it's important that we have doctors from different backgrounds/experiences, because it absolutely affects their practice of medicine and their ability to connect with patients. Men on average have higher MCAT scores than women--should they get preference in med school admissions? Isn't it important that we have female doctors as well as male ones?

There is so much that goes into being a good doctor that is not about achievement scores. You need some baseline level of intelligence to be a good doctor, but beyond that baseline, being a good doctor is about so much more than test scores or even innate intelligence--perhaps especially in the primary care specialties, where we have a shortage of providers. In fact, as discussed in the piece below, personality tests are more highly correlated with medical school success than are measures of cognition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/health/14chen.html

High performance on multiple choice tests is not what makes someone a good doctor.

So someone having dark pigmentation in their skin helps you determine that he or she has these other important, non-score-related traits?

No, but recommendations, volunteer work and extracurriculars, and interviews might.

Am I to believe that there is such a high concentration of these other good traits among Hispanics and Blacks compared to Whites and Asians that they get accepted into medical school at 5-10x the rate with similar college grades and MCAT scores?

The AEI article takes data from the American Association of Medical Colleges and reformats it in the most inflammatory way possible, and then leaves off some pretty critical information. The original data from the American Association of Medical Colleges can be found here:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf

And specifically, if you look at this table, some crucial facts can be gleaned:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf



The average total MCAT score of applicants:

All applicants--501.8
White--504.0
Asian--503.1
Hispanic--496.2
Black--494.1

IOW, the average black applicant had an MCAT score that was 2 percent lower than the average white applicant. Not exactly scandalous.

What is also shown in this table (conveniently omitted from the AEI piece), is the racial make-up of the total applicant pool and the total matriculant pool:

All applicants--53,042
White--25,544 (48%)
Asian--10,906 (21%)
Hispanic--3,300 (6%)
Black--4,344 (8%)
Mixed race/ethnicity--4,734 (9%)

All matriculants--21,030
White--10,828 (51%)
Asian--4,475 (21%)
Hispanic--1,335 (6%)
Black--1,497 (7%)
Mixed race/ethnicity--1,858 (9%)

So admission rates (matriculants divided by applicants) are:

White--42%
Asian--41%
Hispanic--40%
Black--34%
Mixed race/ethnicity--39%

And the average total MCAT scores of matriculants are:

White--510.1
Asian--510.5
Hispanic--503.0
Black--502.5
Mixed race/ethnicity--508.1

In 2016-2017, the average black matriculant had a total MCAT score that was 1.5 percent lower than the average white matriculant.

Happy to be corrected if my math or reading of the AAMC's data is off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally pro-affirmative action but wouldn't a policy of affirmative action based on income work to accomplish the same goals AND take the wind out of the sails of the white nationalists?

I agree with this theoretically. But the issue is how do you prove someone is from poor socio-economic background. Income can be fudged many ways and wealthy whites/asians will work with their accountants to make themselves "financially look poor" for couple of years before their kids apply. Also does income alone change the social background of blacks? No. Many lower middle income or middle income blacks still live in a majority black neighborhood for family reasons.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone is looking for a leg up, no one wants to actually do the work to get ahead.

What do you mean by "do the work to get ahead" ? Define that? Asians also top any admission tests and do plenty of "extra-curricular" activities. So are you ok if Asians are over 50% in any top school, because based on any objective measure they sure deserve it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very outdated stereotypes about Asian-Americans, pp. Calling multiple, very different cultures all cheaters. Claiming Asian-Americans don't do sports. Do you even know any Asian-American kids?

I have one kid at Oakton HS and one at TJ. These are not assumptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:identity politics, GOP style.

Well, to be fair, Identity Politics was indeed started by liberals.


Check your status here:

- black or African
- white
- Asian
- Hispanic
- Native American
- two or more races
- other
- in love with a tree
- polyamorous
- bisexual ambidextrous
- pansexual wiccan
- still deciding
- Brony


Each day, without fail, my middle school daughter would share some story about how another kid in her class has either switched gender or had embraced some other "form." I can no longer keep up.

So?

My rising junior dd recently filled out some info form on a college website. She was telling me that it not only presented about 10+ gender identity options, but the race question actually was phrased as "which race do you identify as." I suppose we can all just choose whatever we want now. It's like identity mad libs.

I fail to see the problem with this statement. I am half white and half URM. I always identify white. Remember your life experience is not universal to all.