Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

and PS it does not matter what some theoretical wealthy black parent would do. The actual events were that wealthy supposedly liberal white parents lost their shit at the idea of integrating with a black school.

That's what Samantha Bee and her husband did in NYC schools. It happens all the time.

I find that a bit different (and much worse) than pursuing options to go OOB because a better school is available.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

and PS it does not matter what some theoretical wealthy black parent would do. The actual events were that wealthy supposedly liberal white parents lost their shit at the idea of integrating with a black school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

DP. Why do you presume that black parents make choices for the same reason as white parents? We are a black family, and our choices re: education largely overlap but are not entirely for the same reasons as white families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You realize the word racist is practically meaningless at this point, right? It's been used so freely as a means to guilt and label and shut down honest discussion that it's worthless.

I agree, and I think that's unfortunate because it robs the accusation of the power it needs to confront true evil racism.

again please educate yourself about the meaning of racial discrimination and unconscious bias. Racism does not mean white hoods. It means historical, institutional poverty and lack of access to resources, which is very much compounded in a tiny, gentrifying city like DC with massive racial disparities. Most liberal white folks live in a white bubble and don't have to contfront it, but in DC schools become an unavoidable crucible. Hence you see "liberal" white people literally freaking the f out at the idea that their elementary school could be integrated with a black school (true story, happened just this year on the Hill.)

Totally agree!!!

racism means institutional poverty and a lack of access to resources are you kidding me lol

like other posters i'm done here

Ok so, why do you think black people as a group have less wealth, worst employment prospects, higher infant and maternal mortality, and poorer educational outcomes? Nothing at all to do with race?

yes I don't think it has anything to do with race. It's 2017 there is a very vibrant African American middle and upper middle class. There is also a lower/under class.

Why don't you ask some of the middle and upper class blacks what they did differently



There are loads of factors one of the biggest is whether or not the father plays a role in the childs life

Black women are the most highly educated group in the United States. And one of the worst paid (only Hispanic women are paid worse). http://www.theroot.com/black-women-now-the-most-educated-group-in-us-1790855540

what colleges are they going to what are their majors how many hours are they working where do they live etc etc etc

If black women were really paid so much less for equal work every company would only hire black women

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You realize the word racist is practically meaningless at this point, right? It's been used so freely as a means to guilt and label and shut down honest discussion that it's worthless.

I agree, and I think that's unfortunate because it robs the accusation of the power it needs to confront true evil racism.

again please educate yourself about the meaning of racial discrimination and unconscious bias. Racism does not mean white hoods. It means historical, institutional poverty and lack of access to resources, which is very much compounded in a tiny, gentrifying city like DC with massive racial disparities. Most liberal white folks live in a white bubble and don't have to contfront it, but in DC schools become an unavoidable crucible. Hence you see "liberal" white people literally freaking the f out at the idea that their elementary school could be integrated with a black school (true story, happened just this year on the Hill.)

Totally agree!!!

racism means institutional poverty and a lack of access to resources are you kidding me lol

like other posters i'm done here

Ok so, why do you think black people as a group have less wealth, worst employment prospects, higher infant and maternal mortality, and poorer educational outcomes? Nothing at all to do with race?

yes I don't think it has anything to do with race. It's 2017 there is a very vibrant African American middle and upper middle class. There is also a lower/under class.

Why don't you ask some of the middle and upper class blacks what they did differently



There are loads of factors one of the biggest is whether or not the father plays a role in the childs life

you live in a fantasy world. even highly educated black people are at a significant disadvantage.

lol really most fortune 500 companies are begging for more diverse talent

elite schools are doing the same thing well unless you are asian.....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You realize the word racist is practically meaningless at this point, right? It's been used so freely as a means to guilt and label and shut down honest discussion that it's worthless.

I agree, and I think that's unfortunate because it robs the accusation of the power it needs to confront true evil racism.

again please educate yourself about the meaning of racial discrimination and unconscious bias. Racism does not mean white hoods. It means historical, institutional poverty and lack of access to resources, which is very much compounded in a tiny, gentrifying city like DC with massive racial disparities. Most liberal white folks live in a white bubble and don't have to contfront it, but in DC schools become an unavoidable crucible. Hence you see "liberal" white people literally freaking the f out at the idea that their elementary school could be integrated with a black school (true story, happened just this year on the Hill.)

Totally agree!!!

racism means institutional poverty and a lack of access to resources are you kidding me lol

like other posters i'm done here

Ok so, why do you think black people as a group have less wealth, worst employment prospects, higher infant and maternal mortality, and poorer educational outcomes? Nothing at all to do with race?

yes I don't think it has anything to do with race. It's 2017 there is a very vibrant African American middle and upper middle class. There is also a lower/under class.

Why don't you ask some of the middle and upper class blacks what they did differently



There are loads of factors one of the biggest is whether or not the father plays a role in the childs life

you live in a fantasy world. even highly educated black people are at a significant disadvantage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
not playing your stupid games. just move to Virginia and self-segregate already.

LOLOLOL, Northern Virginia schools are far more diverse than any school in DC.

yeah as a whole but not at the individual school level

plenty of self segregation going on. And before you call it SES preference I call bs because white people don't want to be around too many asians either

Well, it basically blows their chance at being top of the class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You realize the word racist is practically meaningless at this point, right? It's been used so freely as a means to guilt and label and shut down honest discussion that it's worthless.

I agree, and I think that's unfortunate because it robs the accusation of the power it needs to confront true evil racism.

again please educate yourself about the meaning of racial discrimination and unconscious bias. Racism does not mean white hoods. It means historical, institutional poverty and lack of access to resources, which is very much compounded in a tiny, gentrifying city like DC with massive racial disparities. Most liberal white folks live in a white bubble and don't have to contfront it, but in DC schools become an unavoidable crucible. Hence you see "liberal" white people literally freaking the f out at the idea that their elementary school could be integrated with a black school (true story, happened just this year on the Hill.)

Totally agree!!!

racism means institutional poverty and a lack of access to resources are you kidding me lol

like other posters i'm done here

Ok so, why do you think black people as a group have less wealth, worst employment prospects, higher infant and maternal mortality, and poorer educational outcomes? Nothing at all to do with race?

yes I don't think it has anything to do with race. It's 2017 there is a very vibrant African American middle and upper middle class. There is also a lower/under class.

Why don't you ask some of the middle and upper class blacks what they did differently



There are loads of factors one of the biggest is whether or not the father plays a role in the childs life

Black women are the most highly educated group in the United States. And one of the worst paid (only Hispanic women are paid worse). http://www.theroot.com/black-women-now-the-most-educated-group-in-us-1790855540

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You realize the word racist is practically meaningless at this point, right? It's been used so freely as a means to guilt and label and shut down honest discussion that it's worthless.

I agree, and I think that's unfortunate because it robs the accusation of the power it needs to confront true evil racism.

again please educate yourself about the meaning of racial discrimination and unconscious bias. Racism does not mean white hoods. It means historical, institutional poverty and lack of access to resources, which is very much compounded in a tiny, gentrifying city like DC with massive racial disparities. Most liberal white folks live in a white bubble and don't have to contfront it, but in DC schools become an unavoidable crucible. Hence you see "liberal" white people literally freaking the f out at the idea that their elementary school could be integrated with a black school (true story, happened just this year on the Hill.)

Totally agree!!!

racism means institutional poverty and a lack of access to resources are you kidding me lol

like other posters i'm done here

Ok so, why do you think black people as a group have less wealth, worst employment prospects, higher infant and maternal mortality, and poorer educational outcomes? Nothing at all to do with race?

yes I don't think it has anything to do with race. It's 2017 there is a very vibrant African American middle and upper middle class. There is also a lower/under class.

Why don't you ask some of the middle and upper class blacks what they did differently



There are loads of factors one of the biggest is whether or not the father plays a role in the childs life

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You realize the word racist is practically meaningless at this point, right? It's been used so freely as a means to guilt and label and shut down honest discussion that it's worthless.

I agree, and I think that's unfortunate because it robs the accusation of the power it needs to confront true evil racism.

again please educate yourself about the meaning of racial discrimination and unconscious bias. Racism does not mean white hoods. It means historical, institutional poverty and lack of access to resources, which is very much compounded in a tiny, gentrifying city like DC with massive racial disparities. Most liberal white folks live in a white bubble and don't have to contfront it, but in DC schools become an unavoidable crucible. Hence you see "liberal" white people literally freaking the f out at the idea that their elementary school could be integrated with a black school (true story, happened just this year on the Hill.)

Totally agree!!!

racism means institutional poverty and a lack of access to resources are you kidding me lol

like other posters i'm done here

Bye bye. Just don't go storming your Title I Principal's office and demand that they start catering to your "advanced" child.

Don't worry I'm not sending my kid to a Title 1 school that's not racist or classist that's called commonsense

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to claim that "unprepared students" is really some code word for poor and brown children, then please provide me the correct words to describe students who are unprepared.

I think you should just go ahead and use the term unprepared in any way you see fit, but then be prepared for the response it receives.

Maybe as a quid pro quo, you can share how you know that kids in a given school or classroom are unprepared and how you find schools where the kids are all prepared.

A lot of DC parents would be grateful if you could make the distinction discernible.

I am a NP. I lived for many years EOTP, have now moved to dark side. In my children's new school versus our old neighborhood, I can tell children are "prepared" in the following ways : they got enough sleep. They were not kept up by a party, or just not great parenting, or (in the case of my next door neighbor) what I was pretty sure was prostitution. They have enough to eat, so that they can concentrate and learn. They've been read to at some point in their lives. No one today has screamed obscenities at them. My heart absolutely breaks for so many of the kids I used to see on a daily basis. I don't want my kids away from them, or not to associate with them. None of this is their fault. But you are blind if you think it doesn't have an effect on schools and classrooms and peers. And it doesn't make those of us who admit that bad people, racist or classist, to worry about it. Navigating DC schools is hard. But I really think the vast majority of us are good people with good intentions, both for our kids and their classmates.

Perhaps this is not a major point that moves the current discussion forward, but just as an aside, it's mildly irritating when all of EOTP is painted with the same huge brush. My kid is currently at a NW EOTP elementary where none of the above characterizations are true of my kid or her friends. After three years at the school, from what I can tell, all of her classmates are excited about learning, and are coming to school prepared. I've seen a couple of behavioral and learning problems, but those have actually been transient issues among of the more affluent families in our upper 16th St. neighborhood. There are also several OOB (of various races/ethnicities) kids who are well-spoken, early readers, and kind kids who are wonderful additions to the class.

A neighbor recently relayed how his kid who goes to Deal was called "poor" by a WOTP classmate. The dad sort of just rolled his eyes and laughed it off, because this kid is from an upper middle class, well-educated AA family. Because this kid lives EOTP and is black, I'm guessing the assumption was that she was from a modest background.

The problem with simply referring to EOTP as if it is one big, disadvantaged swath of the city is that it paints all kids here--many of whom are AA or Latino--with the same broad brush. And the concern of many parents (including my own AA family) is that our kids are sometimes treated as "less than" or as potential problem kids by peers and teachers, particularly WOTP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah white people don't want to go to Banneker because its too black

Most black folks don't want to send their kids to schools where they are the only black people either plenty of threads where black people have said this

Noone likes being the token minority

I'm curious what the tipping point is for folks 10% 25% etc

Interesting what it is for neighborhoods as well

My kids went to a middle school that was under 15% white (not DC). Here is the catch. The school, as profiled by niche, greatschool, etc is the neighborhood school, so all statistics are from the neighborhood school. In addition to the neighborhood school, the school had advanced/enriched studies school on the same campus that was very popular with the local white community (80% white). If you just look at greatschool, you will never find out about it, only word of mouth. If you look at school website, it's not easy to find. No lottery, no tests, just have to live in the neighborhood and actually express the desire to be in the advanced program (once in, there were requirements and kids can get kicked out to the neighborhood school (same campus, different classes). ). I found out years later that the reason for separation of the advanced studies was purely financial: state gave more money to schools with the high minority enrollment, which they preserved by separating "schools" instead of the programs within the school.

assuming yo

Yup you just made the magnet model school within a school argument (Side note I don't count that as actual diversity because the kids are separated out and don't interact). Would you have still sent your kid to the school if the "advanced/enriched" section was just 15% white assuming you are white might not be true

There were plenty of magnets around, this was different. There were plenty of classes (arts, music, electives) where everyone mixed. Nothing ( Despite no separation, the school was very cliquey and groups didn't mesh well, but there were enough people to find your own group. If the whole school was 15% (and small) I wouldn't send my kid there, because of the social aspect. Tween/teens years are hard enough socially, I don't need to add to it.