Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it's not essential. None of the stuff mentioned in here is, including the oft repeated $2000 Nantucket daycare. There are cheaper day cares if you don't care about the nice extras. Most people do want the "nice to have" stuff like family trips to Europe and that is the point of most PPs.

do you live in DC? I couldn't even get off the wait list for a daycare that cost less than $2000. At 18 monts we did find a dodgy "preschool" for $900/month but there was consistenly a ratio of like 15:1 toddlers, plus it was dirty and unsafe, plus they were mean to my toddler, who literally got depressed. At that point we considered it a privilege to get into a good center that charged "only" $1800 for 2 year olds.

Seriously. We lived inside the beltway in Virginia when our kids were small, and they went to home daycare (state licensed, insured, run by a lovely woman who my kids still ask to go back and visit 5 years later). It still cost us $250/week/kid with the sibling discount. Full-day preschool/daycare was "only" $12K/year/kid. SACC after-care in Fairfax County for two kids is $750/month.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it's not essential. None of the stuff mentioned in here is, including the oft repeated $2000 Nantucket daycare. There are cheaper day cares if you don't care about the nice extras. Most people do want the "nice to have" stuff like family trips to Europe and that is the point of most PPs.

do you live in DC? I couldn't even get off the wait list for a daycare that cost less than $2000. At 18 monts we did find a dodgy "preschool" for $900/month but there was consistenly a ratio of like 15:1 toddlers, plus it was dirty and unsafe, plus they were mean to my toddler, who literally got depressed. At that point we considered it a privilege to get into a good center that charged "only" $1800 for 2 year olds.

Anonymous wrote:I love this particular DCUM question and followed it with great interest while my kids were in daycare. Now that they are out, I have found the answer thus far is that it is much cheaper. At the height of the daycare years, we were paying $2400/mo for 2 kids, which I realize is low. Between aftercare and summer camps, the amount is closer to $12k per year. I do believe we are in that "sweet spot" some posters have mentioned - kids are 7 and 9, so there hasn't been orthodontia yet and they are not majorly into any sports. I would say expenses outside of child care are at most $200 more now a month than they were in daycare/preschool. We did a modest amount of activities back then and they still do some now. Clothes are marginally more expensive. We've always traveled with them and those expenses haven't changed much (we've always wanted a suite - sleeping in the same room sucks!).

Having read so many of these threads now, I draw the following conclusions about those who say the years after daycare are more expensive -

1) They are including expenses that are not universal (like travel sports and horseback riding) or necessary to raising a child, but that they value enough to spend a lot of money on. Problem is that for comparison purposes, these expenses aren’t ones that all (or maybe even most) families will bear. I live in Takoma Park, and while I’m sure there are kids involved in these more expensive activities, it doesn’t seem to be the norm. So far, my kids are not interested enough in sports that I would try to justify this expense. On the other hand, we have a hefty travel budget because it’s something I really enjoy and I want my kids to experience. But neither of these expense categories is a necessary or universal expense of raising a kid.
2) They are competitive and have a little keeping-up-with-the-Jones mentality. Like the pp who doesn’t want to disadvantage her children by leaving them not knowing how to play golf. Or the ones who will spend large amounts on test and college prep to get into a selective college. These expenses are kid-related, but they may not jibe with your personal child-rearing philosophy.
3) They include expenses that aren’t day-to-day care expenses (which is usually what the daycare crowd is comparing to when they ask about post-daycare finances). For example, including college savings. Just because you start to save more for college after you’re done with daycare doesn’t mean that the child is more expensive – just means you didn’t have the cashflow to fully save and pay for daycare at the same time.

I think it’s 100% doable to spend less after daycare than during, but that many families don’t. For those families that spend more after daycare, it’s because they want to give their kid as many “advantages” as possible. But that doesn’t make those greater costs a foregone conclusion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the question is, how much older? My 7 year (almost 8) old second grader is much less expensive now than he was when we had to pay for daycare and diapers, even though he's in aftercare and goes to camp. But I guess the situation could easily change when he's 10, 12, or 15.

I agree with this. So far I am finding the early elementary age to be substantially less expensive than daycare. At the end of daycare it was $1500/month. I currently pay $325/month for before/aftercare. I had my child in one activity a season before, so that expense is the same, I still feed and clothe her, that hasn't changed. Camp is pricey for the weeks we need it, but at 6 weeks of camp at $400/week, I'm still only facing $2400 + $2925 for before/aftercare/year = $5325/year vs. $18000/year for daycare. I just don't see what activity we could add that would cost another $12k+/year.

Saving for college would eat that up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the question is, how much older? My 7 year (almost 8) old second grader is much less expensive now than he was when we had to pay for daycare and diapers, even though he's in aftercare and goes to camp. But I guess the situation could easily change when he's 10, 12, or 15.

I agree with this. So far I am finding the early elementary age to be substantially less expensive than daycare. At the end of daycare it was $1500/month. I currently pay $325/month for before/aftercare. I had my child in one activity a season before, so that expense is the same, I still feed and clothe her, that hasn't changed. Camp is pricey for the weeks we need it, but at 6 weeks of camp at $400/week, I'm still only facing $2400 + $2925 for before/aftercare/year = $5325/year vs. $18000/year for daycare. I just don't see what activity we could add that would cost another $12k+/year.

Saving for college would eat that up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the question is, how much older? My 7 year (almost 8) old second grader is much less expensive now than he was when we had to pay for daycare and diapers, even though he's in aftercare and goes to camp. But I guess the situation could easily change when he's 10, 12, or 15.

I agree with this. So far I am finding the early elementary age to be substantially less expensive than daycare. At the end of daycare it was $1500/month. I currently pay $325/month for before/aftercare. I had my child in one activity a season before, so that expense is the same, I still feed and clothe her, that hasn't changed. Camp is pricey for the weeks we need it, but at 6 weeks of camp at $400/week, I'm still only facing $2400 + $2925 for before/aftercare/year = $5325/year vs. $18000/year for daycare. I just don't see what activity we could add that would cost another $12k+/year.

Anonymous wrote:I guess the question is, how much older? My 7 year (almost 8) old second grader is much less expensive now than he was when we had to pay for daycare and diapers, even though he's in aftercare and goes to camp. But I guess the situation could easily change when he's 10, 12, or 15.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. That escalated quickly.

I guess it's either: 1. don't care about your kids at all and do nothing for them, versus 2. Spoil your kids rotten complete with silver spoons.

Would it be fair to say that, on average, most people spend about 50-75% as much once they're out of daycare? So no, it's not a huge windfall, but it would be atypical to spend more?
I'm not saying that anyone is "lying" but the fact of the matter is that the expenses for older kids involve a lot more transactions. Instead of writing one check for $3-4k per month for daycare, you're paying a bunch of different bills, extra food, more expensive clothes, etc. So I think it just feels like a lot more money because you're constantly spending it, but it doesn't total the amount that people pay for daycare and other baby/toddler items.

We experienced about a 1/3 savings once our kid enrolled in school. But we had cut back on retirement savings during the daycare years and hadn't started saving for college at all, so the real effect was much less. I had the opposite feeling; it feels like less money is going out the door because it's in small-ish quantities, but it's like the boiling frog when you realize how much everything is costing.

Like anything with parenting, you just can't really imagine what the next stage is like until you get there, and for every joy that comes with a new age there are new and different challenges and choices.

The boiling frog is the perfect analogy. I saved money for a few years, and then the kid started eating everything in sight (he's not even 10 yet! I thought that happened when he became a teen!) and other stuff also costs more - clothing gets more expensive as they get bigger, and so do shoes and activities. It's just expensive to have kids.

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Anonymous wrote:Look if you're one of those parents who don't care about enriching their children's lives with activities, lessons, summer camps, vacations, orthodontia, nice clothes and age appropriate toys (including the iphone and data plan they'll eventually need starting in upper elementary or ms), and oh yeah COLLEGE, then yes I guess you're right, they're not that expensive.

If you're the typical UMC parent who DOES care about all that stuff? They're expensive as f***.

and yet somehow I went to an Ivy League school and became a typical UMC parent, even though I never did any activities other than free school teams and bands, never took vacations, never had an iphone. This consumerist lifestyle is not necessary. Free yourself!

Were iPhones readily available when you were a teenager? You must be a very, very young parent. I did not grow up with the same standards, either, however times are a changing! You may be in for a rude awakening.

yeah, there was no expensive stuff when we grew up. expensive stuff appeared for the first time in the history of mankind the moment you became a parent. what a coincidence!

It's not just expensive things. Way more competitive than when we grew up. You seem determined that because you didn't have it, neither should your children. Maybe you will stick with that, but most parents I know want to help their children succeed.

There are always things to spend your money on. I don't believe that spending money is what makes my kids successful. Quite the opposite. I wonder how a young adult who has been coddled with material goods and international trips will fare when they graduate from college and are on their own ...

Are you the one who never took vacations? I bet you didn't have a home computer, either, but guess what? Every home has one now, including yours. We are raising children in an entirely different world than we grew up in. There is a big space between throwing away money to keep up with the Joneses and making sure that our kids are developing socially and academically. And yes, that includes fostering independence, resourcefulness, perseverance, and resilience. It is possible to do this AND take children on vacation.

Look, some families (even well-educated, solid families) simply don't have the amount of disposible income you're claiming is "required" to raise kids these days. It's not like we didn't take vacations to Iceland because my parents didn't believe in travel; it's that we didn't have the money for luxury trips. We all turned out fine. And yes, we did have one computer, and yes I realize that my kid will need his own computer eventually. Likely, that computer will cost less (inflation adjusted) than the BOB stroller he had as an infant. It's kind of sad that you think only money can purchase your child's social and academic development.

You don't NEED a BOB stroller either - carry your child or make them walk like my parents did!

Right? This poster is insulting parents who spend on activities while having a luxury stroller. My stroller was a used $40 one. See how you don't NEED a Bob?
Think before you type pp!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look if you're one of those parents who don't care about enriching their children's lives with activities, lessons, summer camps, vacations, orthodontia, nice clothes and age appropriate toys (including the iphone and data plan they'll eventually need starting in upper elementary or ms), and oh yeah COLLEGE, then yes I guess you're right, they're not that expensive.

If you're the typical UMC parent who DOES care about all that stuff? They're expensive as f***.

and yet somehow I went to an Ivy League school and became a typical UMC parent, even though I never did any activities other than free school teams and bands, never took vacations, never had an iphone. This consumerist lifestyle is not necessary. Free yourself!

Were iPhones readily available when you were a teenager? You must be a very, very young parent. I did not grow up with the same standards, either, however times are a changing! You may be in for a rude awakening.

yeah, there was no expensive stuff when we grew up. expensive stuff appeared for the first time in the history of mankind the moment you became a parent. what a coincidence!

It's not just expensive things. Way more competitive than when we grew up. You seem determined that because you didn't have it, neither should your children. Maybe you will stick with that, but most parents I know want to help their children succeed.

There are always things to spend your money on. I don't believe that spending money is what makes my kids successful. Quite the opposite. I wonder how a young adult who has been coddled with material goods and international trips will fare when they graduate from college and are on their own ...

Are you the one who never took vacations? I bet you didn't have a home computer, either, but guess what? Every home has one now, including yours. We are raising children in an entirely different world than we grew up in. There is a big space between throwing away money to keep up with the Joneses and making sure that our kids are developing socially and academically. And yes, that includes fostering independence, resourcefulness, perseverance, and resilience. It is possible to do this AND take children on vacation.

Look, some families (even well-educated, solid families) simply don't have the amount of disposible income you're claiming is "required" to raise kids these days. It's not like we didn't take vacations to Iceland because my parents didn't believe in travel; it's that we didn't have the money for luxury trips. We all turned out fine. And yes, we did have one computer, and yes I realize that my kid will need his own computer eventually. Likely, that computer will cost less (inflation adjusted) than the BOB stroller he had as an infant. It's kind of sad that you think only money can purchase your child's social and academic development.

You don't NEED a BOB stroller either - carry your child or make them walk like my parents did!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love this particular DCUM question and followed it with great interest while my kids were in daycare. Now that they are out, I have found the answer thus far is that it is much cheaper. At the height of the daycare years, we were paying $2400/mo for 2 kids, which I realize is low. Between aftercare and summer camps, the amount is closer to $12k per year. I do believe we are in that "sweet spot" some posters have mentioned - kids are 7 and 9, so there hasn't been orthodontia yet and they are not majorly into any sports. I would say expenses outside of child care are at most $200 more now a month than they were in daycare/preschool. We did a modest amount of activities back then and they still do some now. Clothes are marginally more expensive. We've always traveled with them and those expenses haven't changed much (we've always wanted a suite - sleeping in the same room sucks!).

Having read so many of these threads now, I draw the following conclusions about those who say the years after daycare are more expensive -

1) They are including expenses that are not universal (like travel sports and horseback riding) or necessary to raising a child, but that they value enough to spend a lot of money on. Problem is that for comparison purposes, these expenses aren’t ones that all (or maybe even most) families will bear. I live in Takoma Park, and while I’m sure there are kids involved in these more expensive activities, it doesn’t seem to be the norm. So far, my kids are not interested enough in sports that I would try to justify this expense. On the other hand, we have a hefty travel budget because it’s something I really enjoy and I want my kids to experience. But neither of these expense categories is a necessary or universal expense of raising a kid.
2) They are competitive and have a little keeping-up-with-the-Jones mentality. Like the pp who doesn’t want to disadvantage her children by leaving them not knowing how to play golf. Or the ones who will spend large amounts on test and college prep to get into a selective college. These expenses are kid-related, but they may not jibe with your personal child-rearing philosophy.
3) They include expenses that aren’t day-to-day care expenses (which is usually what the daycare crowd is comparing to when they ask about post-daycare finances). For example, including college savings. Just because you start to save more for college after you’re done with daycare doesn’t mean that the child is more expensive – just means you didn’t have the cashflow to fully save and pay for daycare at the same time.

I think it’s 100% doable to spend less after daycare than during, but that many families don’t. For those families that spend more after daycare, it’s because they want to give their kid as many “advantages” as possible. But that doesn’t make those greater costs a foregone conclusion.

GTFO of here with your reasonableness on DCUM. Nobody is paying attention to the sane people, so you may as well save your keystrokes.

By the way, this thread has 100% convinced me not to have that third child I've been on the fence about. Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:Kids are expensive, but I'm not spending more than 40K per year on my school age kids like I did when they did daycare. That's a straight, off the top, $40,000 a year too--all the sports expenses in the world do not equate to the unrelenting monthly daycare payment for 2. It just doesn't. What you hear a lot of this is from SAHMs who don't want to fulfill the "I will stay at home until they are in kindergarten" deal they made with their husbands, and have to invent expenses so it will always be "too expensive" for them to go back to work.