Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is $50000 for 9-10 months of work not a great salary? She is not making much less than engineers if you extrapolate for the months she is off.

OP here -- this is what I mean. If it is such a great salary for only 10 months of work, why aren't candidates for teaching lining up around the block looking for jobs? How can there possibly be a teacher shortage and why are teachers leaving the profession in such large numbers?

It 50K for ten months of work but at 40-60 hours a week. Why are they leaving? entitlement kids, annoying parents, unsupportive admin...that's just the tip of the iceberg.

The teacher shortage is only in some subjects and in some areas. There are shortages in some parts of the country because a) cost of living is too high (think California or NYC) b) the area is undesirable to live or c) the schools don't pay enough (plenty of people with a masters degree and 20 years in only making about 40-45K a year in some areas). There are shortages all over in Spanish bilingual, special ed, math and science. Sped is a shortage area because it is hard to work with sped kids and the paperwork is massive. Spanish bilingual is severely understaffed across most of the U.S. because of huge numbers of students needing bilingual ed and not enough truly bilingual folks with teaching degrees. Even in my highly desirable location and district, we routinely have 0 applicants for open bilingual positions. We end up putting people with non teaching degrees in those positions (so, in other words, TOTALLY unqualified) or people who either don't speak English very well or Spanish very well. Some schools go through multiple subs all year long.

None of the above addresses all the other reasons why teachers are leaving the profession. I don't think it is a good field to enter and I wouldn't encourage my own children to pursue it, even thought I personally LOVE the work. The only thing that makes teaching financially viable is the pension, and I don't believe there's any way the entire pension system in my state is going to stay afloat that many years more. Young people don't think about these things. I didn't when I started teaching. But 20 year olds really need to start hearing from teachers in their 50s' and 60's or retired teachers. They need to know how bad off the pension funds are. They need to know that choosing this career will mean they will pretty much always need a side gig, summers AND school year. They need to know they'll spend an equivalent of 1-2 years of college tuition for their own children on their students over the course of their careers. Plenty of better fields out there. Yes, nothing beats the vacation time. And if that's enough for you, then awesome. I'm glad I chose teaching even if I would have chosen differently could I go back in time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/america-has-a-teacher-shortage-and-a-new-study-says-its-getting-worse/2016/09/14/d5de1cee-79e8-11e6-beac-57a4a412e93a_story.html


Washington Post article claims there's been a dramatic decrease in new teachers entering the profession:

"Enrollment in teacher-preparation programs dropped from 691,000 in 2009 to 451,000 in 2014, a 35 percent decline, according to the study, “A Coming Crisis in Teaching? Teacher Supply, Demand and Shortages in the U.S.”"

It also claims nearly 2/3 of teachers leave before retirement age.

If teaching is supposed to be such a cushy job, "summers off, home by 3", and so well paid with great benefits ... why aren't people rushing to become teachers?

Also retire after 30 years with a pension for life.

Is that one of the main reasons you went into teaching?

For newer teachers in VA it’s more like 35 years now with changes in retirement qualifications.

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/america-has-a-teacher-shortage-and-a-new-study-says-its-getting-worse/2016/09/14/d5de1cee-79e8-11e6-beac-57a4a412e93a_story.html


Washington Post article claims there's been a dramatic decrease in new teachers entering the profession:

"Enrollment in teacher-preparation programs dropped from 691,000 in 2009 to 451,000 in 2014, a 35 percent decline, according to the study, “A Coming Crisis in Teaching? Teacher Supply, Demand and Shortages in the U.S.”"

It also claims nearly 2/3 of teachers leave before retirement age.

If teaching is supposed to be such a cushy job, "summers off, home by 3", and so well paid with great benefits ... why aren't people rushing to become teachers?

Also retire after 30 years with a pension for life.

It seems simple to me. If there were truly a teacher's shortage, states would pay people to go to school to become teachers. But today, with an increasing percent of teachers prepared via alternative pathways, citizens are still footing the bill for training, testing, licensing, background checks... Obviously, if states determined there were this massive shortage looming, they'd entice people to become teachers. They're not.

Also, more states/communities are recruiting teachers in developing countries who're so desperate to escape conditions there they'll willingly shack up in small apartments (Google it) like migrant agriculture workers here in the US to survive on the paltry pay they're offered while working 40, 50, 60... hours a week as teachers in the US, sending back to their countries what few pennies they can save.

Besides, why would smart young people with valuable degrees in science, engineering, technology... give up the chance to pursue careers where they're treated with dignity and respect and can earn enough to survive comfortably while saving healthfully for retirement to instead be the butt of jokes and society's scapegoats--all for high stress, long evening and weekend work hours, relatively little pay (which they're told they should be grateful for), and rampant disrespect from parents, students, and even school administrators?

Enough of the bogus articles on the "teacher shortage." If you want more teachers, entice people to become or remain teachers. It's as simple as that. If you don't want to do it, then be satisfied with the dregs you receive and the consequences. Your choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have nothing but the utmost regard for teachers. Nevertheless, 100K+ may not be cushy for 8 months of actual work but with regular hours and a pension it doesn't seem that shabby.

That's so true.

If you can find me a job that pays 100K with 8 months of actual work, and regular hours, let me know. I'll probably quit teaching and take it!

-- 25 year veteran teacher, making 80K, contracted for the same number of hours as a fed working 10.5 months, who works many hours of unscheduled/unpaid overtime.

Seriously! I missed that post you quoted.

Who is working 8 months, regular hours, and making $100k?

I have 24 years plus a Master's. I'm not making $100k. 40 hours is a short week. That's not a complaint, just a fact.

Agree. 17 years making $80K. My best friend is a fed who works at home full time (although she certainly doesn't work 8 hours a day of her own admission) and has about 6 weeks of vacation a year. She makes $120K+. I took a day off on Tuesday because my son had a fever, but had to go into school that morning to make lesson plans and copies for my sub. There are certainly benefits to being a teacher, it is not a cushy job.

Parents are the worst. especially the ones who think they have the next great mind yet their kid is lazy and not so smart.

Also the demographics in the schools. who wants to teach at a school full of kids who don't want anything more than an hourly wage job and won't go to college if they stick around long enough to graduate.

I posted this before, but it still stands.

I was a teacher for 6 years before leaving the profession to pursue medicine. It's strange because there are parallels to the fields, but I found a massive amount of disrespect for the importance of good pedagogy and achieving real learning outcomes (instead of generic test-based outcomes). I also felt a huge lack of respect personally. I found it frustrating because we don't want seasoned teachers. We don't want good teachers. We want cheap ones who will shut up and teach from the outline. And will be at-will employees (even though the hiring timeline for teachers runs once a year).

I got into teaching because I love childhood development, learning, and science. I found fostering these connections to be my true calling. After spending so much time, money and energy on my students, I realized that my passion doesn't matter because my classrooms aren't funded enough, my leaders (i.e. principal) do not have an interest in anything beyond beating last year's numbers, and my kids, who were from FARMS households, didn't have a framework to support their success beyond the bare walls of my classroom. I don't even think the school was invested beyond not getting shut down. The main goal was just to get above the minimum required passing rate. So, rote memorization took the day. And my county really didn't care about this population, so I gave up. Because I'm rational and realized that pushing a boulder up a hill over and over isn't a life.

No one blames me if a patient of mine who I've spent years counseling (along with their caregivers) develops a condition like type 2 diabetes. There is a sense of personal accountability in medicine (since no one wants to die), which doesn't apply to teaching (since lots of people hate learning difficult things).

Teaching is just so different. Outcomes, many of which are beyond your control, are your responsibility. Your evaluations are not based on your actual perfomance; it's driven by your students. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you don't have that support, it's a house of cards. And when I read threads like this, I just want to send each of my children's teacher an amazon gift card for supplies. Because I know how hard it is and how absolutely frustrating it is to work in a profession that is viewed in such an unfair manner.

At conferences, I hear doctors complain about the state of medicine and the decline of respect for our field. It takes a lot for me not to laugh. Yes, insurers are terrible. Negotiated rates hurt. And coming up with ways to make a decent living while not working insane amounts is hard. Yeah. It's bad, but man, I've had it worse.

I don't pay for medical supplies. I am compensated fairly and my clinical judgment is given some form of deference (even though parents still second guess me). I do a decent amount of medicine in the Medicaid space. I feel a similar burn to churn through but people tend to give me a bit more room (including insurers) when I give a medical justification. There was no parallel when I was teaching. No reason, no matter how evidence-based, mattered if it went against the fiat of numbers above all else.

I think people give me this space because they don't think they could be a doctor. I think no one bothered when I was a teacher because they felt any idiot could teach. The truth is, there are a lot of idiot physicians out there. And there are many, many teachers who are so good at what they do, they should bottle it. But only the physician is given that respect as a default. Making the training more difficult won't solve this because it's not only the coursework that matters. It's the years spent refining and developing in the classroom that make a great teacher. Too bad the bulk of people leave the profession within five years because it's so screwed up.

I actually work less as a MD. And I make a multiple of my previous salary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is $50000 for 9-10 months of work not a great salary? She is not making much less than engineers if you extrapolate for the months she is off.

OP here -- this is what I mean. If it is such a great salary for only 10 months of work, why aren't candidates for teaching lining up around the block looking for jobs? How can there possibly be a teacher shortage and why are teachers leaving the profession in such large numbers?

It's not horrible as a recent grad, but there's little growth potential. 8 years later, I make $3000 more than when I started. My husband started at the same salary but now makes $100k more than when he started. It can be demoralizing to realize there are no performance bonuses or promotions available.

You really didn't know that when you went into teaching?

Taught for years. The parents often fail to recognize their children as who they really are when they're out of mama's sight. The curriculum assumes all can manage and most can stay together. The admin backs you or doesn't but sets the law and standards within that building.

The pay? No one else is off all summer and you don't make enough to travel or play like you'd like during the summer so whoopee, summer.

The glass ceiling has been raised for women so many have bailed for better pay and less hassle.

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it easy to segue into education administration if you're a motivated teacher? I know some brain dead former teachers who clear $100,000 as principals of mediocre buildings. They were tracked for administration pretty early because they were principals by ~30yo.

people become principals that fast? are these at good schools?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have nothing but the utmost regard for teachers. Nevertheless, 100K+ may not be cushy for 8 months of actual work but with regular hours and a pension it doesn't seem that shabby.

That's so true.

If you can find me a job that pays 100K with 8 months of actual work, and regular hours, let me know. I'll probably quit teaching and take it!

-- 25 year veteran teacher, making 80K, contracted for the same number of hours as a fed working 10.5 months, who works many hours of unscheduled/unpaid overtime.

Seriously! I missed that post you quoted.

Who is working 8 months, regular hours, and making $100k?

I have 24 years plus a Master's. I'm not making $100k. 40 hours is a short week. That's not a complaint, just a fact.

Anonymous wrote:I have nothing but the utmost regard for teachers. Nevertheless, 100K+ may not be cushy for 8 months of actual work but with regular hours and a pension it doesn't seem that shabby.

That's so true.

If you can find me a job that pays 100K with 8 months of actual work, and regular hours, let me know. I'll probably quit teaching and take it!

-- 25 year veteran teacher, making 80K, contracted for the same number of hours as a fed working 10.5 months, who works many hours of unscheduled/unpaid overtime.

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it easy to segue into education administration if you're a motivated teacher? I know some brain dead former teachers who clear $100,000 as principals of mediocre buildings. They were tracked for administration pretty early because they were principals by ~30yo.

Being a principal these days is a very very hard job. They are under a great deal of pressure from above, and have responsibility for supervising over 40 employees, at a small elementary school, when you factor in teachers, paras, all the substitutes and the building staff. They are under a lot of pressure to show results. The salary really isn't commensurate with the responsibility.

I never want to be an admin. They spend their days dealing with behavior issues, ignorant parents and shrinking budgets. No thanks.