Anonymous
01/30/2019 15:55
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Bigger, Faster, Stronger: How Redshirting is changing HS Sports
"If holding your kid back gives them a physical advantage and you're that serious about making your kid a big-time star, you're only getting rewarded for it," "Honestly, it's a very interesting strategy because (recruiting analysts) don't care. Colleges don't care. If you're a class of 2015 (prospect) and you're 19 and there's another 2015 kid who's 16 -- they don't care."
In New Jersey, some coaches estimate 20 to 50 percent of top-tier athletes have repeated a grade, even if it means leaving behind their friends and their social circles.
https://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/how_redshirting_is_changing_hs_sports.html
How to build a sports superstar in 2015: The engineering of 15-year-old Josh McKenzie (long article, link posted below)
The Ducks have a team filled with Joshes -- 12 players repeating the eighth grade, according to their coach. River Plaza has no shot, losing 55-6. The beating is so bad Josh is expressionless when it's all over. He's already thinking about getting back to Jersey, working out and wrestling season.
The first wrestling match of the day ends in 45 seconds, the second in 28. Just like that, Josh is in the finals of the "War at the Shore" at the Wildwood Convention Center in early February. The final match is anti-climactic. Josh tortures his opponent, 18-3, and doesn't sound the least bit upset that he has missed a pin. "I kind of beat him up," Josh says. "Made him cry. That was good."...
It's his second workout of the day and he's looking forward to finishing his second year of eighth grade in less than 24 hours. Josh shows off his progress, bench-pressing 135 pounds 35 straight times. Matt then lights a fire, challenging his little brother's claim that he can bench 275 pounds, reminding him that his best is 265...just when it looks like Josh is doomed, he draws a final surge to push the 275 pounds up and back onto the rack.
https://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/the_engineering_of_15_year_old_josh_mckenzie.html#incart_river
I think coaches know what they are getting. Those who did not, are learning the hard way. I am wondering if UNC lacrosse's push to go super early a years back might be the reason that UNC displaced lowly UVA at the bottom of the ACC. UNC lacrosse's cupboard looked pretty bare last season only two seasons after they won the national championship largely on the back of a kid who was not an early recruit. The sad state of affairs not could be a direct result of all the early recruiting reclassified kids that left them with kids who had already peaked in high school. The last two early classes are just getting to colleges now, and UNC seems to be stuck with an issue for several years now. That is unless it can repair the issue with transfers.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 15:23
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Bigger, Faster, Stronger: How Redshirting is changing HS Sports
"If holding your kid back gives them a physical advantage and you're that serious about making your kid a big-time star, you're only getting rewarded for it," "Honestly, it's a very interesting strategy because (recruiting analysts) don't care. Colleges don't care. If you're a class of 2015 (prospect) and you're 19 and there's another 2015 kid who's 16 -- they don't care."
In New Jersey, some coaches estimate 20 to 50 percent of top-tier athletes have repeated a grade, even if it means leaving behind their friends and their social circles.
https://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/how_redshirting_is_changing_hs_sports.html
How to build a sports superstar in 2015: The engineering of 15-year-old Josh McKenzie (long article, link posted below)
The Ducks have a team filled with Joshes -- 12 players repeating the eighth grade, according to their coach. River Plaza has no shot, losing 55-6. The beating is so bad Josh is expressionless when it's all over. He's already thinking about getting back to Jersey, working out and wrestling season.
The first wrestling match of the day ends in 45 seconds, the second in 28. Just like that, Josh is in the finals of the "War at the Shore" at the Wildwood Convention Center in early February. The final match is anti-climactic. Josh tortures his opponent, 18-3, and doesn't sound the least bit upset that he has missed a pin. "I kind of beat him up," Josh says. "Made him cry. That was good."...
It's his second workout of the day and he's looking forward to finishing his second year of eighth grade in less than 24 hours. Josh shows off his progress, bench-pressing 135 pounds 35 straight times. Matt then lights a fire, challenging his little brother's claim that he can bench 275 pounds, reminding him that his best is 265...just when it looks like Josh is doomed, he draws a final surge to push the 275 pounds up and back onto the rack.
https://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/the_engineering_of_15_year_old_josh_mckenzie.html#incart_river
"If holding your kid back gives them a physical advantage and you're that serious about making your kid a big-time star, you're only getting rewarded for it," "Honestly, it's a very interesting strategy because (recruiting analysts) don't care. Colleges don't care. If you're a class of 2015 (prospect) and you're 19 and there's another 2015 kid who's 16 -- they don't care."
In New Jersey, some coaches estimate 20 to 50 percent of top-tier athletes have repeated a grade, even if it means leaving behind their friends and their social circles.
https://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/how_redshirting_is_changing_hs_sports.html
How to build a sports superstar in 2015: The engineering of 15-year-old Josh McKenzie (long article, link posted below)
The Ducks have a team filled with Joshes -- 12 players repeating the eighth grade, according to their coach. River Plaza has no shot, losing 55-6. The beating is so bad Josh is expressionless when it's all over. He's already thinking about getting back to Jersey, working out and wrestling season.
The first wrestling match of the day ends in 45 seconds, the second in 28. Just like that, Josh is in the finals of the "War at the Shore" at the Wildwood Convention Center in early February. The final match is anti-climactic. Josh tortures his opponent, 18-3, and doesn't sound the least bit upset that he has missed a pin. "I kind of beat him up," Josh says. "Made him cry. That was good."...
It's his second workout of the day and he's looking forward to finishing his second year of eighth grade in less than 24 hours. Josh shows off his progress, bench-pressing 135 pounds 35 straight times. Matt then lights a fire, challenging his little brother's claim that he can bench 275 pounds, reminding him that his best is 265...just when it looks like Josh is doomed, he draws a final surge to push the 275 pounds up and back onto the rack.
https://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/the_engineering_of_15_year_old_josh_mckenzie.html#incart_river
Anonymous
01/30/2019 14:51
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
The sport is fluid and changing all the time. A few years ago this board would be full of parents complaining about 8th grade verbal commitments now it is about the re-class issue. Reclassing actually did make sense when kids could gain the advantage of getting early commitment to a good school. However, the process was not good for coaches as they took too much risk in taking an 8th grader who did not pan out. Therefore they changed the rules. Clubs and private schools exist to sell the dream of college athletics in this sport. Right now re-classing works because it gives kids a early lead on the spotlight of recruiting events and top teams which leads to top HS programs, showcases, ect.. The fact they might not even be allowed to play the senior year does not matter because they would have already committed as a Junior. The ONLY way to fix this is for college coaches to adjust. If they take the actual age into consideration when recruiting the practice will stop. I think this makes sense. When looking at a sophomore or Junior it should make a difference if he is 15 or 18. USL should pressure the college coaches to make a statement about this. Clubs and HOCO will not change this anymore than complaining on a message board will.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 14:34
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Apologies. I didn't intend to make fun of folks w/ disabilities nor folks that avail themselves of tutoring opportunities which is why I restated my comment.
Yea, now I see the retraction.
It's frustrating to see your 14 year old undersides middle school son get pumbled by a huge kid 2 years older.
I'd buy you a beer if I knew ya.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 14:32
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Apologies. I didn't intend to make fun of folks w/ disabilities nor folks that avail themselves of tutoring opportunities which is why I restated my comment.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 14:03
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Sorry that came across more snarky than desired. HoCo doesn't allow kids to play in the league if they are playing HS lax, maybe a discrete division for 8th graders of high school age (15-16) would be the best way to address this.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
They are not 16, they are 15 but driving already.a
If they were 16 they would be ineligible to play their senior years.
What do you think these kids should do? Not play? Maybe they are not that smart and we're held back.
The rules are stupid, graduation year is stupid.
But 3 hold backs are normal not extreme.
I don't support 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds but it's the league that created the problem. It use to be age not graduationyear. Then you had parents complaining about the cut off date and their kids being born to close to cutoff and playing older kids.
How about if you're 15 yo, you can't play against 8th graders no matter how arrested your educational development has been. Or openly have a MS Post graduate aged "Elite" division sponsored by Sylvan Learning.
It's pretty snarky since many kids do actually have disabilities you may not see and that does not mean they are stupid. Also, I would not al make fun of children with go to Sylvan Learning center, but you do you. Of course the constitution of the united states disagrees with making a whole league for the learning disabled.
It's hard to hear a moral argument from people making fun of kids with disabilities.
That being said, call the league, demand that kids are carded like in soccer.
I support your goals, just not your method.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 14:00
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
They are not 16, they are 15 but driving already.
If they were 16 they would be ineligible to play their senior years.
What do you think these kids should do? Not play? Maybe they are not that smart and we're held back.
The rules are stupid, graduation year is stupid.
But 3 hold backs are normal not extreme.
I don't support 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds but it's the league that created the problem. It use to be age not graduationyear. Then you had parents complaining about the cut off date and their kids being born to close to cutoff and playing older kids.
You are really obtuse. A 15 year old in 8th grade driving with a learner's permit has the possibility of turning 16 in the next 2 months. MadLax has 3 of them.
A remedial student who has a learning disability has nothing to do with what they do on the field. The 2 are unrelated. That's correct, I don't think they should play in the 8th grade division just like they won't be allowed to play as a senior in high school. They are too old.
These are not school teams. They are are clubs so the "class" category should have some sort of limit and a 16 year old or a 15 and 9 month old shouldn't be allowed to play in an 8th grade division.
Maybe the parents don't know about the senior year of eligibility or maybe they don't care. I've brought this up with many parents and they didn't realize there was an age limit to play sports.
It's not a holdback. It's a double holdback or it's a kid born up to 11 months prior to the 9/1 guideline. Or it's a team of boys, mostly in the elite division, born before the 9/1 deadline.
The league doesn't make the rules but they should put their foot down.
If they live in VA the learners is 15 and 6 mo.
I'm not obtuse, I have lived it with hockey, lacrosse and soccer.
CYO changed the rules since "varsity" is 7th and 8th grade and 16 year olds from mater dei played 12 year olds.
Change the rules... complain to the league ... don't just bemoan this ridiculousness .... do something about it. It is not a rule created by Madlax.
Yes... the league makes the rules.
I doubt you have seen any of these kids birth certificates. Believe me, Prep and Gonzaga are the worst. They have 50% of their team hold backs and starting Freshman from other schools, who are barely 15, are playing against 19 year olds. It's pathetic.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 13:54
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
They are not 16, they are 15 but driving already.
If they were 16 they would be ineligible to play their senior years.
What do you think these kids should do? Not play? Maybe they are not that smart and we're held back.
The rules are stupid, graduation year is stupid.
But 3 hold backs are normal not extreme.
I don't support 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds but it's the league that created the problem. It use to be age not graduationyear. Then you had parents complaining about the cut off date and their kids being born to close to cutoff and playing older kids.
Call the league make it happen.
How about if you're 15 yo, you can't play against 8th graders no matter how arrested your educational development has been. Or openly have a MS Post graduate aged "Elite" division sponsored by Sylvan Learning.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 13:53
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Sorry that came across more snarky than desired. HoCo doesn't allow kids to play in the league if they are playing HS lax, maybe a discrete division for 8th graders of high school age (15-16) would be the best way to address this.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
They are not 16, they are 15 but driving already.a
If they were 16 they would be ineligible to play their senior years.
What do you think these kids should do? Not play? Maybe they are not that smart and we're held back.
The rules are stupid, graduation year is stupid.
But 3 hold backs are normal not extreme.
I don't support 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds but it's the league that created the problem. It use to be age not graduationyear. Then you had parents complaining about the cut off date and their kids being born to close to cutoff and playing older kids.
How about if you're 15 yo, you can't play against 8th graders no matter how arrested your educational development has been. Or openly have a MS Post graduate aged "Elite" division sponsored by Sylvan Learning.
It wasn't snarky at all. The current discrete division for 8th graders of high school age is called "elite."
I encourage people to call and complain to HoCo and ask their club owners how old the kids are on the roster and what division they are playing. HoCo is not changing and they encourage teams to enter the proper division based on the roster's ability and age. True.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 13:48
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
They are not 16, they are 15 but driving already.
If they were 16 they would be ineligible to play their senior years.
What do you think these kids should do? Not play? Maybe they are not that smart and we're held back.
The rules are stupid, graduation year is stupid.
But 3 hold backs are normal not extreme.
I don't support 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds but it's the league that created the problem. It use to be age not graduationyear. Then you had parents complaining about the cut off date and their kids being born to close to cutoff and playing older kids.
You are really obtuse. A 15 year old in 8th grade driving with a learner's permit has the possibility of turning 16 in the next 2 months. MadLax has 3 of them.
A remedial student who has a learning disability has nothing to do with what they do on the field. The 2 are unrelated. That's correct, I don't think they should play in the 8th grade division just like they won't be allowed to play as a senior in high school. They are too old.
These are not school teams. They are are clubs so the "class" category should have some sort of limit and a 16 year old or a 15 and 9 month old shouldn't be allowed to play in an 8th grade division.
Maybe the parents don't know about the senior year of eligibility or maybe they don't care. I've brought this up with many parents and they didn't realize there was an age limit to play sports.
It's not a holdback. It's a double holdback or it's a kid born up to 11 months prior to the 9/1 guideline. Or it's a team of boys, mostly in the elite division, born before the 9/1 deadline.
The league doesn't make the rules but they should put their foot down.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 13:21
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Sorry that came across more snarky than desired. HoCo doesn't allow kids to play in the league if they are playing HS lax, maybe a discrete division for 8th graders of high school age (15-16) would be the best way to address this.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
They are not 16, they are 15 but driving already.a
If they were 16 they would be ineligible to play their senior years.
What do you think these kids should do? Not play? Maybe they are not that smart and we're held back.
The rules are stupid, graduation year is stupid.
But 3 hold backs are normal not extreme.
I don't support 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds but it's the league that created the problem. It use to be age not graduationyear. Then you had parents complaining about the cut off date and their kids being born to close to cutoff and playing older kids.
How about if you're 15 yo, you can't play against 8th graders no matter how arrested your educational development has been. Or openly have a MS Post graduate aged "Elite" division sponsored by Sylvan Learning.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 12:14
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
They are not 16, they are 15 but driving already.
If they were 16 they would be ineligible to play their senior years.
What do you think these kids should do? Not play? Maybe they are not that smart and we're held back.
The rules are stupid, graduation year is stupid.
But 3 hold backs are normal not extreme.
I don't support 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds but it's the league that created the problem. It use to be age not graduationyear. Then you had parents complaining about the cut off date and their kids being born to close to cutoff and playing older kids.
How about if you're 15 yo, you can't play against 8th graders no matter how arrested your educational development has been. Or openly have a MS Post graduate aged "Elite" division sponsored by Sylvan Learning.
Anonymous
01/30/2019 09:36
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
They are not 16, they are 15 but driving already.
If they were 16 they would be ineligible to play their senior years.
What do you think these kids should do? Not play? Maybe they are not that smart and we're held back.
The rules are stupid, graduation year is stupid.
But 3 hold backs are normal not extreme.
I don't support 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds but it's the league that created the problem. It use to be age not graduationyear. Then you had parents complaining about the cut off date and their kids being born to close to cutoff and playing older kids.
Anonymous
01/29/2019 16:39
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
^^^ "you don't think" >> "You think 3..."
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
also, nice try in trying to get the girls thread going to bury this topic. MadLax people are awful.
Anonymous
01/29/2019 16:35
Subject: Question for Madlax Parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hockey, Football, Basketball etc all have older kids. Only the dorks on here make it out to be something Lacrosse specific and continually beat it like a dead horse.
Yes, but all other sports have age based leagues. In HS it is not as much of an issue
So you think a double holdback is okay? a 16 year old playing in 8th grade is okay? Go to your next kid's game and see how many others agree.
you think they are 16 because they are driving, they are 15 and will turn 16 Fall of their Freshman year.
I don't think they will turn 16 by March, I know. BTW - if a kid is driving on a learner's and he got it today, this mean his birthday will be April 29 and he will turn 16 during the HoCo season while in 8th grade. Thanks for verifying. This means they have birthdays, at a minimum in 2003 and possibly even 2002 if they have had a learner's for over 30 days.
Let me fill you in. 8th graders should be born at the most extreme in September of 2003 (and 2003 is ridiculous) through August 2005. Anything younger than that and the child should have severe learning or social issues and not athletic ones.
Delayed entry for summer babies is one thing, January through May stretches it a lot; the year before - wow.
Va is 15 and 6 months
MD is 15 and 9 months.
What's your point? That a team with a bunch of 15 year olds in 8th grade driving a car with a May/June/July birthday don't have an extraordinary advantage over other 8th graders who are 13 and 14?
I think older kids have an advantage, I think kids that go through puberty early have an advantage also.
I'm just pointing out that they are most likely 15 and 6 months in the Spring because if they are older they are not eligible to play for Gonzaga and Prep.
75% of Mater dei's 8th grade are 15.... I think that is crazy.
3 kids I don't think is crazy, it's actually normal for about 20% of boys to be held back 1 year even if they are born in the Fall.
I think the league should use birthdays.
You don't think 3 kids who are 16 and held back 2x (that's what is going on) is normal surrounded by a bunch of other 15 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds is okay?
A delayed entry child should have a summer birthday making them 15 when they enter high school and not 16. Any kid born prior to June should be considered remedial. I know how Mater Dei and the private high schools got to this point and it's outrageous. It's a problem at all these private schools.
At least you think birthdays is correct but you are justifying what is going on at MadLax with no real defensible position except to say "well others do it."