Anonymous wrote:I am talking about the idea that "it takes a village" means "other adults are obligated to support whatever decision I make about raising my child."

Now, as it happens, I consider this

Adult: would you like a cookie?
Child: *doesn't answer* *turns around to ask nanny what healthy treat they will make this afternoon*

to be far less polite than addressing an adult by just the adult's first name when that's what the adult has asked to be addressed by, but of course we are all entitled to our own opinion on this.

You are entitled to your opinion. We changed how the children reacted because I got tired of dealing with adults yelling at my charges for their father's decisions. It's unreasonable to ask a child to turn down yummy things that aren't good for them on a frequent basis without providing an alternative. And if a 5 year old turns to ask me immediately what we can make later, rather than telling me that she thinks your candy tastes awful, I don't see the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

But seriously, what's the big deal if a kid calls you Miss Jane instead of Jane?

Parent's reasoning: We want to instill in our kids a general sense of respect and conscientiousness that will serve them even into adulthood. We want them to make a good first impression, because this will be beneficial to them in any kind of social or professional situation. That's our stake in asking them to use titles like Miss or Mr, even if it's just followed by the first name, not the last. To me, that makes sense. That's a good reason. I cannot imagine why any adult cares so much what a kid calls them that they would look in the face of clear reasoning and say "BUT I WANT TO BE CALLED JAAAAAAAAANE."

Your argument is basically: my reason for having my child call you Miss Jane instead of Jane is more important than your reason for wanting to be called Jane.

This is already problematic, but it's especially problematic when the ostensible reason for calling the person Miss Jane is to show respect for that person. I don't think it shows respect for a person to call them Miss Jane when they want to be called Jane.

Anonymous wrote:

But seriously, what's the big deal if a kid calls you Miss Jane instead of Jane?

Parent's reasoning: We want to instill in our kids a general sense of respect and conscientiousness that will serve them even into adulthood. We want them to make a good first impression, because this will be beneficial to them in any kind of social or professional situation. That's our stake in asking them to use titles like Miss or Mr, even if it's just followed by the first name, not the last. To me, that makes sense. That's a good reason. I cannot imagine why any adult cares so much what a kid calls them that they would look in the face of clear reasoning and say "BUT I WANT TO BE CALLED JAAAAAAAAANE."

I don't think it's respectful, or conscientious, to call somebody something they don't want to be called, after they have specifically asked not to be called that.

Would this be respectful or conscientious?

You: Hi, I'm Larla Jones.
Me: Hi, Kathleen. Nice to meet you.
You: Actually, my name is Larla.
Me: I prefer to call you Kathleen. That's how my parents raised me.

Parent's reasoning: We want to instill in our kids a general sense of respect and conscientiousness that will serve them even into adulthood. We want them to make a good first impression, because this will be beneficial to them in any kind of social or professional situation. That's our stake in asking them to use titles like Miss or Mr, even if it's just followed by the first name, not the last. To me, that makes sense. That's a good reason. I cannot imagine why any adult cares so much what a kid calls them that they would look in the face of clear reasoning and say "BUT I WANT TO BE CALLED JAAAAAAAAANE."

Calling me Miss Jane doesn't seem respectful when they're pushing past me to get somewhere just because they tossed Miss in front of it. Or when they interrupt me numerous times. There are more important ways to show respect. I'm not sure how this conversation started, but my DD calls her friend's dad "Bobo." That's not his name or anywhere close to it. Yet, when we saw him in town loading stuff into his trunk, she ran over to help. THAT is respectful. When she saw him waiting a half hour for a train while having a cold, she asked if we could buy him a tea across the street and then ran to bring it to him. THAT is respect. And when she leaves her friend's house, she says to him and his wife, "Thanks for having me!" Yet not one "sir" ever crosses her lips.

I think of saying "Sir" and "Ma'am" as either southern or military-related. I don't really respect the south or the military so neither are things I want to emulate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But ma'am and sir relates to the cookie arguement like this;

adult: Aiden would you like a cookie?
Aiden: no thank you, my mom said not to eat any treats here.
Adult: but I would really like you to eat the cookie, Aiden.

Adult has a weird need to MAKE Aiden eat this cookie even though it doesn't harm anything if Aiden doesn't eat the cookie and Aiden is listening to what his mom told him and mom had a good reason for Aiden not eat a cookie.

I think that there's a meaningful difference between wanting to be called what one wants to be called, and making somebody else eat a cookie.

But seriously, what's the big deal if a kid calls you Miss Jane instead of Jane?

Parent's reasoning: We want to instill in our kids a general sense of respect and conscientiousness that will serve them even into adulthood. We want them to make a good first impression, because this will be beneficial to them in any kind of social or professional situation. That's our stake in asking them to use titles like Miss or Mr, even if it's just followed by the first name, not the last. To me, that makes sense. That's a good reason. I cannot imagine why any adult cares so much what a kid calls them that they would look in the face of clear reasoning and say "BUT I WANT TO BE CALLED JAAAAAAAAANE."

Anonymous wrote:But ma'am and sir relates to the cookie arguement like this;

adult: Aiden would you like a cookie?
Aiden: no thank you, my mom said not to eat any treats here.
Adult: but I would really like you to eat the cookie, Aiden.

Adult has a weird need to MAKE Aiden eat this cookie even though it doesn't harm anything if Aiden doesn't eat the cookie and Aiden is listening to what his mom told him and mom had a good reason for Aiden not eat a cookie.

I think that there's a meaningful difference between wanting to be called what one wants to be called, and making somebody else eat a cookie.

The reactions in this thread are hilarious. Anyway, I'm black and grew up in DC. Saying yes sir/m'am is uncommon but not unheard of and definitely more Southern. I never said it but will probably instill the "habit" in my kids because it's polite. If an adult has a specific way they want to be addressed then that's fine. I work with kids and prefer to be addressed as Miss Firstname, instead if Lastname (That's my mom!). I don't mind yes sir or yes m'am but it definitely feels weird because I don't feel old enough or wise enough to be addressed as such. And even though it makes me feel a bit weird when addressed this way I will have my kids do it.

By the way, I've never had a parent insist their child call me by their rules of addressing adults. Most people in real life are normal and sane and understand that individual people have their own preferences. Many parents, even strict or military, will ask for my preference on how to be addressed. This has been my experience for years.

But ma'am and sir relates to the cookie arguement like this;

adult: Aiden would you like a cookie?
Aiden: no thank you, my mom said not to eat any treats here.
Adult: but I would really like you to eat the cookie, Aiden.

Adult has a weird need to MAKE Aiden eat this cookie even though it doesn't harm anything if Aiden doesn't eat the cookie and Aiden is listening to what his mom told him and mom had a good reason for Aiden not eat a cookie.

I am talking about the idea that "it takes a village" means "other adults are obligated to support whatever decision I make about raising my child."

Now, as it happens, I consider this

Adult: would you like a cookie?
Child: *doesn't answer* *turns around to ask nanny what healthy treat they will make this afternoon*

to be far less polite than addressing an adult by just the adult's first name when that's what the adult has asked to be addressed by, but of course we are all entitled to our own opinion on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then my charge won't address you by name, and they may not talk to you at all. I have to support the parent's right to have their child learn as they wish, as long as the child is not harmed. Your right to be addressed as you wish doesn't trump parental rights.

Have you considered looking for a different employer who is more, well, moderate? I mean, that we're even discussing "parental rights" here in the context of addressing people. What next?

Adult: Would you like a cookie?
Child's parent: I don't let my child eat sweets! How dare you undermine my parental rights by offering my child a cookie!

or

Adult: *does something in public*
Child's parent: I don't want my child to know that people do that! How dare you meddle in my parenting by doing that in public in the presence of my child!

Hmmm, no, I happen to like the parent (no longer working with them, unfortunately). He didn't allow empty sugars, and any of his children would have smiled at you but not replied before turning around to me with a big grin to ask which treat we would make that afternoon. Since I can make fun things like chocolate cake healthy, they were all allowed to eat as much as they wanted, with the understanding that we only made one treat per week, so if they pigged out, it would be gone faster.

If the child noticed you, an adult, doing something but they weren't sure what you were doing or why, they would:
a. ask you what in the world you were doing and why
b. ask me what you were doing any why (depending on the child, it might be standing right there or back in the car)
c. wait and ask dad what you were doing and why (while giving a lurid, exaggerated description, since dad wasn't there, at which time I would quietly tell dad what was really going on so that he could explain)

Given that the dad in question is of the opinion that information is always good, and it's up to the child's caregiver(s) to help the child learn to interpret the information, no, he would never object to a child seeing something, unless you were talking about having sex on the corner?

You're bizarre. I am white, from the midwest, and say ma'am and sir. It's respectful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are missing the point.

You may parent your kids however you want to, of course. But other adults don't have to do whatever you want them to in the cause of your parenting. That's not called "having a village". That's called "telling other people what to do."

Again, you are weird if you get the perverse urge to meddle in someone's parenting just cause. Get a life.

I'm not "meddling in someone's parenting". I'm asking a person (in this case, a person who is a child) to call me what I want to be called.

Oh, look. Another supposed adult who thinks it's all about her.

You (an adult) are telling me (another adult) to accept that a child is going to call me something that I don't want to be called, because that's how you want to raise your child. Who's making it about whom?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are missing the point.

You may parent your kids however you want to, of course. But other adults don't have to do whatever you want them to in the cause of your parenting. That's not called "having a village". That's called "telling other people what to do."

Again, you are weird if you get the perverse urge to meddle in someone's parenting just cause. Get a life.

How's home-schooling working for you? If your child spends 7 to 8 hours in a classroom with a teacher, your parenting style is only equal to that of the parents of the other kids in the classroom and the teacher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are missing the point.

You may parent your kids however you want to, of course. But other adults don't have to do whatever you want them to in the cause of your parenting. That's not called "having a village". That's called "telling other people what to do."

Again, you are weird if you get the perverse urge to meddle in someone's parenting just cause. Get a life.

I'm not "meddling in someone's parenting". I'm asking a person (in this case, a person who is a child) to call me what I want to be called.

Oh, look. Another supposed adult who thinks it's all about her.

Anonymous wrote:

Then my charge won't address you by name, and they may not talk to you at all. I have to support the parent's right to have their child learn as they wish, as long as the child is not harmed. Your right to be addressed as you wish doesn't trump parental rights.

Have you considered looking for a different employer who is more, well, moderate? I mean, that we're even discussing "parental rights" here in the context of addressing people. What next?

Adult: Would you like a cookie?
Child's parent: I don't let my child eat sweets! How dare you undermine my parental rights by offering my child a cookie!

or

Adult: *does something in public*
Child's parent: I don't want my child to know that people do that! How dare you meddle in my parenting by doing that in public in the presence of my child!