Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This, plus 1. Start hitting the gym, hard. At night, after your kids are put to bed, go hit the gym. Don't sit around the house moping for your DW's attention - she wants to be left alone at the end of the day. You will burn off the sexual energy, burn off frustration, get in better shape, become more interesting to your DW, and you will get that desirability feeling from other women.

This sounds like a reasonable suggestion.

Signed by a burned out dh, burned out by his own desires and by dw's frequent refusal, by his responsibility and the desire for freedom.

Anonymous wrote:

This, plus 1. Start hitting the gym, hard. At night, after your kids are put to bed, go hit the gym. Don't sit around the house moping for your DW's attention - she wants to be left alone at the end of the day. You will burn off the sexual energy, burn off frustration, get in better shape, become more interesting to your DW, and you will get that desirability feeling from other women.

Anonymous wrote:No one is obligated to have sex, but it sounds like DW is not even trying.

The problem is that the more you push, the more she will reject.

I think a better, slightly Machiavellian, strategy is to focus on making yourself attractive to other women. Don't actually cheat or be obnoxious about it. Just put yourself in positions where other women are paying attention to you and seem to like you.

Women are just like men in that once they've "got" you, they sometimes take you for granted. They have to be reminded sometimes that you have options (assuming you actually have options).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Refreshing honesty from alot of the ladies here.
Sounds like a lot women who no longer care for sex.
How sad. Don't be surprised when your men stray with a younger woman who still has some libido.

They are not exactly lining up outside the door.

Not lining up because, as demonstrated by this thread, lots (most?) women simply do not have much sex drive.
I am so sorry for all you anti sex types!
But that's OK because my sex drive is solid and I have enough looks and game and money to find a nice lady who DOES enjoy sex.
Probably it will be another man's wife who has lost her attraction for him.
Crazy world we live in.

If it's so all important to you, find a new partner; allow your partner to find someone who is a closer match and move on. Win win.

Nope. Not giving up on all the benefits of marriage just for sex.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Refreshing honesty from alot of the ladies here.
Sounds like a lot women who no longer care for sex.
How sad. Don't be surprised when your men stray with a younger woman who still has some libido.

They are not exactly lining up outside the door.

Not lining up because, as demonstrated by this thread, lots (most?) women simply do not have much sex drive.
I am so sorry for all you anti sex types!
But that's OK because my sex drive is solid and I have enough looks and game and money to find a nice lady who DOES enjoy sex.
Probably it will be another man's wife who has lost her attraction for him.
Crazy world we live in.

If it's so all important to you, find a new partner; allow your partner to find someone who is a closer match and move on. Win win.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Agreed, it's a statement about sexual desire, and PP seems to feel that sexual desire should never be studied or discussed critically, which makes sense given her personal experiences.

As demonstrated, it doesn't make the statement correct.

Now you're just making shit up.

"anyone who shames sexuality is nuts"

Anyone who shames their spouse for sexually desiring them with an out of hand dismissal and a comment to just use their hand and get over it is nuts. And an asshole.
Be real about the discussion you were having.

Reading back over the thread the point is when one spouse tries to make it a obligation or a job. Therein lies the real problem.

Yep. Or say, "I desire her, and by her not granting me sexual access to her body, I am being denied something I am owed in marriage.

Hugely problematic thinking.

It's not problematic thinking; it is a reasonable expectation spun in the most negative possible way for rhetorical purposes. But that does not make the expectation unreasonable. Marriage involves many interdependent mutual commitments, one of which is that each spouse will make reasonable efforts to accommodate the other's needs, including their sexual needs. This is a matter of common usage and practice; it is implicit in the promise of monogamy, as few if any people would make such a promise if the explicit terms were that the other party could unilaterally and arbitrarily deny them sex without recourse; and it is generally confirmed by the pre- and post-marriage course of dealings between the spouses. It's also a highly material aspect of the arrangement for most men, and I suspect many women as well.

That doesn't speak to the question of what the appropriate remedy is, of course, due to disagreements regarding sex in a marriage. Certainly neither rape nor abusive psychological pressure is ever justified under any circumstances. Deviations from monogamy are a closer call, but in my view can be justified in certain circumstances. But probably the better resolution is that, if it turns out that this is a major area of disagreement between the spouses, just to accept that there really was no meeting of the minds on the fundamental nature of the marriage from its inception, amicably dissolve it, and move on.

No cheating is not "justified" in any circumstance. I've heard cheaters give all kinds of reasons as to why they put their partners health and their own at risk. She doesn't give me enough sex, he gives money to his kids and does talk to me. Invites his family to our house first without consulting me. Cheaters have zero excuses, and some have been killed especially in these situations and getting involved with married people. I've seen some lose their
jobs. When you cheat on your spouse you also cheat on the children, and end up displacing them. I've seen some horrible endings.

Communicate your feelings, see if there's a compromise, get counseling, and if all else fails you get divorced and go your own way. That's what big people do who have a decent set of values and good foundation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Agreed, it's a statement about sexual desire, and PP seems to feel that sexual desire should never be studied or discussed critically, which makes sense given her personal experiences.

As demonstrated, it doesn't make the statement correct.

Now you're just making shit up.

"anyone who shames sexuality is nuts"

Anyone who shames their spouse for sexually desiring them with an out of hand dismissal and a comment to just use their hand and get over it is nuts. And an asshole.
Be real about the discussion you were having.

Reading back over the thread the point is when one spouse tries to make it a obligation or a job. Therein lies the real problem.

Yep. Or say, "I desire her, and by her not granting me sexual access to her body, I am being denied something I am owed in marriage.

Hugely problematic thinking.

It's not problematic thinking; it is a reasonable expectation spun in the most negative possible way for rhetorical purposes. But that does not make the expectation unreasonable. Marriage involves many interdependent mutual commitments, one of which is that each spouse will make reasonable efforts to accommodate the other's needs, including their sexual needs. This is a matter of common usage and practice; it is implicit in the promise of monogamy, as few if any people would make such a promise if the explicit terms were that the other party could unilaterally and arbitrarily deny them sex without recourse; and it is generally confirmed by the pre- and post-marriage course of dealings between the spouses. It's also a highly material aspect of the arrangement for most men, and I suspect many women as well.

That doesn't speak to the question of what the appropriate remedy is, of course, due to disagreements regarding sex in a marriage. Certainly neither rape nor abusive psychological pressure is ever justified under any circumstances. Deviations from monogamy are a closer call, but in my view can be justified in certain circumstances. But probably the better resolution is that, if it turns out that this is a major area of disagreement between the spouses, just to accept that there really was no meeting of the minds on the fundamental nature of the marriage from its inception, amicably dissolve it, and move on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Refreshing honesty from alot of the ladies here.
Sounds like a lot women who no longer care for sex.
How sad. Don't be surprised when your men stray with a younger woman who still has some libido.

They are not exactly lining up outside the door.

Not lining up because, as demonstrated by this thread, lots (most?) women simply do not have much sex drive.
I am so sorry for all you anti sex types!
But that's OK because my sex drive is solid and I have enough looks and game and money to find a nice lady who DOES enjoy sex.
Probably it will be another man's wife who has lost her attraction for him.
Crazy world we live in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Agreed, it's a statement about sexual desire, and PP seems to feel that sexual desire should never be studied or discussed critically, which makes sense given her personal experiences.

As demonstrated, it doesn't make the statement correct.

Now you're just making shit up.

"anyone who shames sexuality is nuts"

Anyone who shames their spouse for sexually desiring them with an out of hand dismissal and a comment to just use their hand and get over it is nuts. And an asshole.
Be real about the discussion you were having.

Reading back over the thread the point is when one spouse tries to make it a obligation or a job. Therein lies the real problem.

Yep. Or say, "I desire her, and by her not granting me sexual access to her body, I am being denied something I am owed in marriage.

Hugely problematic thinking.

Anonymous wrote:This has been an incredibly lame thread, even by DCUM standards. I am sorry for OP who comes on here with a sincere question, seeking some help.

OP, if you are still checking in, there is a good book called Passionate Marriage that may help you. It really dissects sex patterns in marriage and how to get out of them.

I think you need to take the risk of telling your DW exactly how you feel, "I'd really like to make love with you in our bed, I miss you and although the showers are nice, it's not all I want to do to be close to you." And *ask* her how she feels and why she reacts the way she does. You may need to suggest going to couples therapy. I know that sounds crazy but really it's not, it helped my marriage and I had zero interest in ever leaving my spouse, cheating, etc. I just wanted more sex and more intimacy in our relationship. I would frame it less as you wanting your wife to do more for you, but rather you wanting to be closer to her and that you have a need for emotional intimacy that is not being met. And that you are lonely. Use words like hurt, lonely, feel unloved, sad, rejected, etc...that really express the emotional impact of this on you. Make it clear that you want to understand her and her views. See if she is up for experimenting more. She may be totally bored too. Who knows how she feels. You have to find out. And you have to make it clear that this is really important to you. When two people love each other they try to meet the others' needs. You may have tried to engage her on this before but you need to keep pushing it. Change is hard, but you can do it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to have read the OP in the most uncharitable way and used it as a jumping off point to go off on the patriarchy. Others were trying to help the OP troubleshoot. You don't see troubleshooting as necessary, but it's a lot more productive for their marriage, of which his wife is a part.

What would be productive for the marriage is OP thinking about some of the points brought up, how he may be prioritizing himself getting off over his wife's feelings, in a way that men have done for millennia that has had some truly horrific consequences. And thinking about ways in which he can talk himself out of the sexual entitlement he was raised with as the result of growing up with a patriarchy.

I don't get this at all. I'm a married middle aged woman with a higher sex drive than my husband. It's chronically frustrating to do more than 50% of the emotional work and daily chores, and be in pretty good shape, and yet be told, directly or by omission," That's great honey but I'd rather watch TV than have sex with you." I am entitled to sex. If I don't get it from him, I will get it elsewhere. Nothing to do with patriarchy, and sure as hell nothing to do with who works harder for the family, etc. He just isn't interested in more regular sex.

You could easily tell this post was from a man, probably that same poster who has started a few anti women threads, lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to have read the OP in the most uncharitable way and used it as a jumping off point to go off on the patriarchy. Others were trying to help the OP troubleshoot. You don't see troubleshooting as necessary, but it's a lot more productive for their marriage, of which his wife is a part.

What would be productive for the marriage is OP thinking about some of the points brought up, how he may be prioritizing himself getting off over his wife's feelings, in a way that men have done for millennia that has had some truly horrific consequences. And thinking about ways in which he can talk himself out of the sexual entitlement he was raised with as the result of growing up with a patriarchy.

I don't get this at all. I'm a married middle aged woman with a higher sex drive than my husband. It's chronically frustrating to do more than 50% of the emotional work and daily chores, and be in pretty good shape, and yet be told, directly or by omission," That's great honey but I'd rather watch TV than have sex with you." I am entitled to sex. If I don't get it from him, I will get it elsewhere. Nothing to do with patriarchy, and sure as hell nothing to do with who works harder for the family, etc. He just isn't interested in more regular sex.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to have read the OP in the most uncharitable way and used it as a jumping off point to go off on the patriarchy. Others were trying to help the OP troubleshoot. You don't see troubleshooting as necessary, but it's a lot more productive for their marriage, of which his wife is a part.

What would be productive for the marriage is OP thinking about some of the points brought up, how he may be prioritizing himself getting off over his wife's feelings, in a way that men have done for millennia that has had some truly horrific consequences. And thinking about ways in which he can talk himself out of the sexual entitlement he was raised with as the result of growing up with a patriarchy.