Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are ways to make schools more accountable. One way is to give parents school choice...vouchers. You, as the parent, get the money from the government and YOU choose which school you want to attend. Schools will work to be more competitive in order to get the parents to choose them. Right now the way it works, there is no incentive for excellence. We must do away with pubic education all together.

This is basically welfare for the middle class. I'm a fan of the social safety net, but I'm not going to sit by and have my tax dollars used to gut the public education system by moving all of the middle class kids to privates (who can hand-pick their students).

It would work a lot better than the current system, which is very broken. Anyone who could would go elsewhere if they had a ticket. Then, and only then, will schools start functioning for the student and stop being self serving.

Lots of assumptions here.

1. The voucher system will work better than public schools. (It hasn't actually worked out that way, where people have tried it in the US.)
2. Anybody who can send their child to private school, does.
3. The purpose of a school is to function for an individual student. (Private schools don't work that way either, by the way.)

Fundamentally, you don't like public schools because you don't think that the government should run things because you think that the government is bad at running things. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, when people with your beliefs get into power. The Kansas public school system isn't doing so well currently, for example.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/kansas-schools-close-early-as-brownback-tax-cuts-squeeze-revenue

Anonymous wrote:

There are ways to make schools more accountable. One way is to give parents school choice...vouchers. You, as the parent, get the money from the government and YOU choose which school you want to attend. Schools will work to be more competitive in order to get the parents to choose them. Right now the way it works, there is no incentive for excellence. We must do away with pubic education all together.

This is basically welfare for the middle class. I'm a fan of the social safety net, but I'm not going to sit by and have my tax dollars used to gut the public education system by moving all of the middle class kids to privates (who can hand-pick their students).

It would work a lot better than the current system, which is very broken. Anyone who could would go elsewhere if they had a ticket. Then, and only then, will schools start functioning for the student and stop being self serving.

There are ways to make schools more accountable. One way is to give parents school choice...vouchers. You, as the parent, get the money from the government and YOU choose which school you want to attend. Schools will work to be more competitive in order to get the parents to choose them. Right now the way it works, there is no incentive for excellence. We must do away with pubic education all together.

This is basically welfare for the middle class. I'm a fan of the social safety net, but I'm not going to sit by and have my tax dollars used to gut the public education system by moving all of the middle class kids to privates (who can hand-pick their students).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are ways to make schools more accountable. One way is to give parents school choice...vouchers. You, as the parent, get the money from the government and YOU choose which school you want to attend. Schools will work to be more competitive in order to get the parents to choose them. Right now the way it works, there is no incentive for excellence. We must do away with pubic education all together.

Empirically that's nonsense, you know. There are plenty of good public education systems in the world that aren't based on competition and "accountability".

What planet are you on?

Earth. How about this? You list some of education systems in the world that you think are good (based on data, not on political philosophy). Then we'll take a look at how they're structured.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are ways to make schools more accountable. One way is to give parents school choice...vouchers. You, as the parent, get the money from the government and YOU choose which school you want to attend. Schools will work to be more competitive in order to get the parents to choose them. Right now the way it works, there is no incentive for excellence. We must do away with pubic education all together.

Empirically that's nonsense, you know. There are plenty of good public education systems in the world that aren't based on competition and "accountability".

What planet are you on?

Anonymous wrote:
There are ways to make schools more accountable. One way is to give parents school choice...vouchers. You, as the parent, get the money from the government and YOU choose which school you want to attend. Schools will work to be more competitive in order to get the parents to choose them. Right now the way it works, there is no incentive for excellence. We must do away with pubic education all together.

Empirically that's nonsense, you know. There are plenty of good public education systems in the world that aren't based on competition and "accountability".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the MCPS were a private organization competing in the marketplace against the much better private schools in the area, you better bet the teachers would not have gotten the 6% increase, and the class sizes would be much smaller. This is why government run school system is failing...it is a monopoly with no accountability.

You're basically saying: if the public school system were a private school system.

If you think that education should be the private responsibility of individual parents -- well, that's not how it works in this country, but you can probably find other countries where it does work that way.

There are ways to make schools more accountable. One way is to give parents school choice...vouchers. You, as the parent, get the money from the government and YOU choose which school you want to attend. Schools will work to be more competitive in order to get the parents to choose them. Right now the way it works, there is no incentive for excellence. We must do away with pubic education all together.

Anonymous wrote:If the MCPS were a private organization competing in the marketplace against the much better private schools in the area, you better bet the teachers would not have gotten the 6% increase, and the class sizes would be much smaller. This is why government run school system is failing...it is a monopoly with no accountability.

You're basically saying: if the public school system were a private school system.

If you think that education should be the private responsibility of individual parents -- well, that's not how it works in this country, but you can probably find other countries where it does work that way.

Anonymous wrote:If the MCPS were a private organization competing in the marketplace against the much better private schools in the area, you better bet the teachers would not have gotten the 6% increase, and the class sizes would be much smaller. This is why government run school system is failing...it is a monopoly with no accountability.

But it isn't a private organization. If it were a private organization where would the money come from? Oh, parents. Well, most parents can't afford private school. That's why the government saw fit to create public schools.

Private schools don't fail because most of the kids there are from wealthy families who can provide enrichment, food, shelter and relative safety in the homes, so the kids do well in school. Some of the kids in public schools don't have that. Such kids usually do very poorly in school. And with more and more budget cuts, these kids get even less individualized attention, unlike the more expensive private schools.

If the MCPS were a private organization competing in the marketplace against the much better private schools in the area, you better bet the teachers would not have gotten the 6% increase, and the class sizes would be much smaller. This is why government run school system is failing...it is a monopoly with no accountability.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^P.S. No teacher (other than part-time teachers) works a six-hour day.

I drop my child off at the kiss n ride 15 minutes before the first bell (8:45am) and there are teachers walking in for the day every single day. The one day a week she has an activity that I pick her up at 4:15pm (I usually get there at 4:10pm) the staff parking lot is completely empty. I am so sick of people saying teachers work these 8-10hr days. Grading papers at home at night doesn't count. I work 8-10hrs a day in an office and still come home and do some work at night. As do most jobs these days. EMT's make $15/hr and work weekends, nights, save lives, put themselves in harms way, etc.. but somehow a teacher deserves $100K while having off all summer? No.

It doesn't? Why doesn't it?

And again -- who is talking about deserves? Compensation has nothing to do with what people deserve. Otherwise people who take care of children and old people would be rich, and lobbyists and botox dermatologists would earn -- well, a whole lot less. If you want good teachers, you have to pay enough to attract good teachers. If you don't think teachers should get paid much, you won't attract good teachers.

Also, could you please explain how you drop your child off at 8:45, pick her up at 4:15, and put in an 8-10-hour day at the office?

Anonymous wrote:^^^P.S. No teacher (other than part-time teachers) works a six-hour day.

I drop my child off at the kiss n ride 15 minutes before the first bell (8:45am) and there are teachers walking in for the day every single day. The one day a week she has an activity that I pick her up at 4:15pm (I usually get there at 4:10pm) the staff parking lot is completely empty. I am so sick of people saying teachers work these 8-10hr days. Grading papers at home at night doesn't count. I work 8-10hrs a day in an office and still come home and do some work at night. As do most jobs these days. EMT's make $15/hr and work weekends, nights, save lives, put themselves in harms way, etc.. but somehow a teacher deserves $100K while having off all summer? No.

^^^P.S. No teacher (other than part-time teachers) works a six-hour day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Pubic schools are wasteful in many ways...including how they arrange their pay scales. Like I said...teachers who are attracted to this environment are the ones who only care about pensions, and other ridiculous benefits that have no place in a public sector position.

I'm not a teacher, but you are crazy. Why shouldn't teachers care about their pay and pension? I would, especially if I have to deal with crazy and/or shitty parents. How do you expect teachers to eat and live? They need to do that, you know, in order to be able to teach your kids.

Why do you think government workers get a pension and cheaper healthcare after they retire? Because the pay is shitty, but the government needs to attract smart people, too.

Shame on teachers for wanting a living wage and good benefits! The nerve!

So you think a basic public school teacher who works 6hr days 8-9 months total (after summer, breaks and another 11 days off) deserves a 6 figure salary, free healthcare and a full pension? I sure don't. They chose higher class ratios over giving up their 6% raise this year. They don't give one crap about your kid's education. It is all about the $$ in MCPS. It is the highest paying county in the state and in the tri-state area. Yet, 83% of high schoolers failed a basic Algebra exam. Something is truly wrong in this county and it all comes down with the type of teachers it brings in.

Free healthcare? A "full" pension? No one is getting these benefits. Teachers do have good health insurance and a partial pension.

I do think that a professional who has dedicated 20+ years to one of the best school systems in the country deserves and has earned a six-figure (barely six-figure, but six-figure nonetheless) salary.

All of the teachers I know (including my DH) give much more than one crap about their students' education. In fact, DH received a thank you note from a recent college graduate thanking DH for the positive influence he gave her when she was in her class, influence that led to her choice of college major.

There is no shame in wanting, or earning, a decent salary and decent benefits.

Anonymous wrote:

So you think a basic public school teacher who works 6hr days 8-9 months total (after summer, breaks and another 11 days off) deserves a 6 figure salary, free healthcare and a full pension? I sure don't. They chose higher class ratios over giving up their 6% raise this year. They don't give one crap about your kid's education. It is all about the $$ in MCPS. It is the highest paying county in the state and in the tri-state area. Yet, 83% of high schoolers failed a basic Algebra exam. Something is truly wrong in this county and it all comes down with the type of teachers it brings in.

Do you think that it's important to have good public-school teachers?

If so, which do you think is a better way to attract and keep good public-school teachers?

1. Offer good pay and good benefits.
2. Offer little pay and few benefits.

(Also, there is no 6% raise. There are also no 6-hour days.)