Anonymous wrote:The problem with not marrying when you are in a LTR, is that the legal rights associated with marriage are legion and ever-changing. Currently in Maryland, there are over 400 rights granted to married couples that are not granted to cohabitants or even common-law marriages. In the federal laws, there are over 1100. Yes, you can pay to duplicate many of these, but even if you reviewed the laws and were current today, legislation that hasn't passed or even been proposed yet can change the picture in a matter of weeks. By this time next year, there will be new laws and rights granted to marriages that are not granted in your legal paperwork. When that happens, all married couples are immediately granted the legal protections, but those who are in LTR with legal paperwork would have to amend their paperwork to include those changes (if they even knew about them--many of these changes are never really publicized well).

Also be careful about how your documents are drafted. I know of a case where a couple had such documents, but due to a slight issue in the legalese during drafting when one partner died, the family of the deceased partner was able to successfully sue and overturn the final directives. That included having the body returned to their home state for interment and half of the property going to the family instead of to the surviving partner. Additionally, the surviving partner had to sell the joint home to award the family half of the value of the property. Marriage laws are designed to withstand such cases much better than privately drafted documents.

I think when you get married many people don't realize all the rights being conferred in marriage, I know I didn't, and many of those things are the furthest from your mind until something happens like the spouse cheats and when you look to divorce you see that he/she is entitled to half your pension etc. By the other side of the coin many people living together haven't thought thru all the things they give up legally speaking by not being married until something happens like your loved one is injured and you can't make any of the care decisions etc. In some ways, you can be more a la carte in the LTR, for example you don't want your boyfriend to be entitled to your 401K if you split up but you want to split the house. You start from all these rights for the spouse when you are married and have to be deliberate in taking any away, like having a pre-nup while you start with no rights by being a live-in girlfriend/boyfriend and have to be deliberate in adding them in.

Legal reasons aside, if my daughters truly never wanted to get married, I'm talking if Prince Charming rode up on a white horse and asked to marry her she would turn him down because she didn't believe in martiage ...I would have no problems with her living with her boyfriend. I wouldn't feel like she was settling for something she didn't want in order to be with him. I always think back to the Harry met Sally comment when she says "all this time I've been saying that he didn't want to get married. But the truth is that he didn't want to marry me." I don't want my daughters to be married to the wrong person but I also don't want them to stay living with someone that isn't ready to commit in the legal sense (either thru marriage in the near term or coming the closest you could get to the legal protections in marriage while living together)

Anonymous wrote:I find it sad that you make snap judgments with very little to go on.

I was given plenty to go on.

I find it sad that you make snap judgments with very little to go on.

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So, you don't marry, because you assume the relationship will end, and it's easier to end a cohabiting situation?

Personally I don't marry because I don't see the benefits of it. I am with a person because I want to be with them. I commit to them because I love them, not because I'm legally tied to them. The easy split is just a possible benefit if it comes to that.

Others want to marry and gain the benefits from that. That is their choice.

My opinion comes from they way I look at things. And in this situation I step back and say WHY do I need to get married? And there really aren't any reasons that make sense to me because marriage doesn't strengthen a commitment IMO.

Marriage absolutely strengthens a commitment if done right. Premarital counseling. Standing up before God, family and friends and promising to love, honor and cherish the other person. That's why marriages are done formally - to strengthen and acknowledge an increased commitment level.

For you marriage does that. My relationship is as strong, as official and as important as your marriage.
We don't need marriage to attain an increased commitment level.

But I don't recognize your non marriage as official, or as important as mine. Sorry. That's reserved for married people.

I really don't care if you do! I view your marriage as sad and unnecessary.

Why is marriage "sad"?

I don't view all marriage as sad. I view marriage to her as sad.

Who is "her"? Are we devolving into ad hominem attacks?

It's not an attack. It's my opinion. We were never having an argument based on fact. It was based on feeling from the first word.

It is your opinion that a PP's marriage is sad? Which one, and why? Or are you just attacking someone for supporting marriage?

Yes. It is my opinion that a PP's marriage is sad. I find it sad because she is so rigid in her beliefs that it can't be enjoyable for anyone involved.
I actually support marriage. It is a wonderful thing for some people. I'm not against it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I love knowing that my boyfriend is with me because he chooses to be.

Too bad, according to many here, that your commitment is not real unless you go in front of God (LOL).

I lived in sin with my dh before we were married. We didn't get married in a church but I think that a church wedding would have been really nice. And there are times that I regret not having a more formal/traditional wedding. It just wasn't in the cards for us given our circumstances at the time. We did enjoy our small, low pressure wedding. It was perfect for us.

And what in the world does this post have to do with the price of tea in China?

Oh, you're right silly me. I guess I was just thinking that a formal/traditional church wedding (going in front of God) is an ideal wedding to many of us. Circumstances may warrant another approach, of course. The important thing is that the two people love each other and are committed to making their union last. Venue is secondary. It is nice when you can have both, but sometimes that just isn't going to happen - at least have the first . Sorry if I've rambled OT.

Anonymous wrote:The problem with not marrying when you are in a LTR, is that the legal rights associated with marriage are legion and ever-changing. Currently in Maryland, there are over 400 rights granted to married couples that are not granted to cohabitants or even common-law marriages. In the federal laws, there are over 1100. Yes, you can pay to duplicate many of these, but even if you reviewed the laws and were current today, legislation that hasn't passed or even been proposed yet can change the picture in a matter of weeks. By this time next year, there will be new laws and rights granted to marriages that are not granted in your legal paperwork. When that happens, all married couples are immediately granted the legal protections, but those who are in LTR with legal paperwork would have to amend their paperwork to include those changes (if they even knew about them--many of these changes are never really publicized well).

Also be careful about how your documents are drafted. I know of a case where a couple had such documents, but due to a slight issue in the legalese during drafting when one partner died, the family of the deceased partner was able to successfully sue and overturn the final directives. That included having the body returned to their home state for interment and half of the property going to the family instead of to the surviving partner. Additionally, the surviving partner had to sell the joint home to award the family half of the value of the property. Marriage laws are designed to withstand such cases much better than privately drafted documents.

I would love to see a list of these rights. My BF and I have been together a long time--4 kids, joint property etc. We've been together so long that the train screaming marry me has long left the station. We're just an old couple now. I have yet to see a right that I need/want and can't get through other means. But I can clearly see the difference in our taxes from filing as 2 single adults to filing as married couple. At this point, it's the marriage penalty that prevents us from legally getting married. There needs to be some other benefit that will make up for the higher taxes.

Anonymous wrote:

I think morally it's fine, but it isn't necessarily a good idea, especially if you don't have good exit options or are re-locating for the other person's benefit. There are a lot of protections in marriage to ensure that the benefits from major life decisions like moving, taking on debt, etc., are shared in a breakup. Sometimes there is a lot of common sense behind these old-fashioned rules.

YES, this exactly. BTDT. I stayed in a crappy relationship for longer than I would have bc I didn't have any other options. Not ideal. That being said, I also lived with DH before we got married and it was awesome.

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So, you don't marry, because you assume the relationship will end, and it's easier to end a cohabiting situation?

Personally I don't marry because I don't see the benefits of it. I am with a person because I want to be with them. I commit to them because I love them, not because I'm legally tied to them. The easy split is just a possible benefit if it comes to that.

Others want to marry and gain the benefits from that. That is their choice.

My opinion comes from they way I look at things. And in this situation I step back and say WHY do I need to get married? And there really aren't any reasons that make sense to me because marriage doesn't strengthen a commitment IMO.

Marriage absolutely strengthens a commitment if done right. Premarital counseling. Standing up before God, family and friends and promising to love, honor and cherish the other person. That's why marriages are done formally - to strengthen and acknowledge an increased commitment level.

For me that is a horse/pony show. Do you really need all that to love someone? At that moment does something change after having a wedding? No.

It is nothing more than tradition and religious based. That is what we have been taught from early on. Good thing I can look beyond the nonsense and realize what is truly important in a relationship.

It's not nonsense. It gives you the strength not to give up when things get hard, and gives you public support right from the get go. Marriage is about much more than romantic love, it's the joining of two families.

I get that from not being married. All of our friends and family give us support and acknowledge our relationship.
Why do you need approval?

I want approval from my family and his.

How long have you been married?

Over 15 years. Why?

Just wondering how needing both of your extended family's approvals has worked out for your marriage.

So far, so good. He'd have to do something really horrible for me to divorce him and upset his parents, whom I so dearly love.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, you don't marry, because you assume the relationship will end, and it's easier to end a cohabiting situation?

Personally I don't marry because I don't see the benefits of it. I am with a person because I want to be with them. I commit to them because I love them, not because I'm legally tied to them. The easy split is just a possible benefit if it comes to that.

Others want to marry and gain the benefits from that. That is their choice.

My opinion comes from they way I look at things. And in this situation I step back and say WHY do I need to get married? And there really aren't any reasons that make sense to me because marriage doesn't strengthen a commitment IMO.

Marriage absolutely strengthens a commitment if done right. Premarital counseling. Standing up before God, family and friends and promising to love, honor and cherish the other person. That's why marriages are done formally - to strengthen and acknowledge an increased commitment level.

For you marriage does that. My relationship is as strong, as official and as important as your marriage.
We don't need marriage to attain an increased commitment level.

But I don't recognize your non marriage as official, or as important as mine. Sorry. That's reserved for married people.

I really don't care if you do! I view your marriage as sad and unnecessary.

Why is marriage "sad"?

I don't view all marriage as sad. I view marriage to her as sad.

Who is "her"? Are we devolving into ad hominem attacks?

It's not an attack. It's my opinion. We were never having an argument based on fact. It was based on feeling from the first word.

It is your opinion that a PP's marriage is sad? Which one, and why? Or are you just attacking someone for supporting marriage?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, you don't marry, because you assume the relationship will end, and it's easier to end a cohabiting situation?

Personally I don't marry because I don't see the benefits of it. I am with a person because I want to be with them. I commit to them because I love them, not because I'm legally tied to them. The easy split is just a possible benefit if it comes to that.

Others want to marry and gain the benefits from that. That is their choice.

My opinion comes from they way I look at things. And in this situation I step back and say WHY do I need to get married? And there really aren't any reasons that make sense to me because marriage doesn't strengthen a commitment IMO.

Marriage absolutely strengthens a commitment if done right. Premarital counseling. Standing up before God, family and friends and promising to love, honor and cherish the other person. That's why marriages are done formally - to strengthen and acknowledge an increased commitment level.

For me that is a horse/pony show. Do you really need all that to love someone? At that moment does something change after having a wedding? No.

It is nothing more than tradition and religious based. That is what we have been taught from early on. Good thing I can look beyond the nonsense and realize what is truly important in a relationship.

It's not nonsense. It gives you the strength not to give up when things get hard, and gives you public support right from the get go. Marriage is about much more than romantic love, it's the joining of two families.

I get that from not being married. All of our friends and family give us support and acknowledge our relationship.
Why do you need approval?

I want approval from my family and his.

How long have you been married?

Over 15 years. Why?

Just wondering how needing both of your extended family's approvals has worked out for your marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, you don't marry, because you assume the relationship will end, and it's easier to end a cohabiting situation?

Personally I don't marry because I don't see the benefits of it. I am with a person because I want to be with them. I commit to them because I love them, not because I'm legally tied to them. The easy split is just a possible benefit if it comes to that.

Others want to marry and gain the benefits from that. That is their choice.

My opinion comes from they way I look at things. And in this situation I step back and say WHY do I need to get married? And there really aren't any reasons that make sense to me because marriage doesn't strengthen a commitment IMO.

Marriage absolutely strengthens a commitment if done right. Premarital counseling. Standing up before God, family and friends and promising to love, honor and cherish the other person. That's why marriages are done formally - to strengthen and acknowledge an increased commitment level.

For you marriage does that. My relationship is as strong, as official and as important as your marriage.
We don't need marriage to attain an increased commitment level.

But I don't recognize your non marriage as official, or as important as mine. Sorry. That's reserved for married people.

I really don't care if you do! I view your marriage as sad and unnecessary.

Why is marriage "sad"?

I don't view all marriage as sad. I view marriage to her as sad.

Who is "her"? Are we devolving into ad hominem attacks?

It's not an attack. It's my opinion. We were never having an argument based on fact. It was based on feeling from the first word.