13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education. But I think we're slipping away from that. I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads. Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged. But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations. Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.

Anonymous wrote:Just read this transcript and wow, I find this to be a fascinating topic. I tend to agree more with the findings that those who are given advantages in life tend to downplay the effect this has had on their success. And I say this as someone whose parents paid for college and a good chunk of law school. Of course I was hardworking, made good grades, stayed out of trouble, managed to get a sizable merit-based scholarship to a top tier law school, etc., but I would never try to attribute everything I have achieved solely to my own grit and determination.

That's a strawman if I ever saw one. Top tier law school, huh? I went to a mid tier state school, majored in engineering. I had a shitty GPA and barely got accepted.

Anonymous wrote:
There is something to be said for having an intact family that pushes the importance of education and can help pay for schooling. I have also been blessed with good health and parents who can fund their own retirement. I think life is a mix of opportunity and hard work.

I think that's the same sentiment shared by others who are successful. But what you get instead is that the people who are unsuccessful claim that the system is rigged - there is no way to get ahead even if you work hard. They claim that people who are born lucky will be successful, and the ones who are unlucky will not be successful. That's how they structured that Monopoly game: luck and rigid rules so that the advantage/disadvantage is strictly maintained.

Life happens over decades - long enough time that luck more or less evens out. The US, by maintaining one of the most stable political and economic environments is best suited to smoothing out the luck of people in their lives. If you didn't catch the last opportunity to buy a home, there's always the next one. The problem with people who claim luck as a majority factor for success essentially excuses himself from making an effort to succeed. If success is due mostly to some factor outside of one's control, what rational person would make an effort unless he is addicted to gambling? That's such a depressing view of the world.

OP,

After people pay the mortgage for their homes at the bottom of the market, childcare for 2 kids, services for special needs kids, care for elderly parents, private schools, student loans for two people and for tutoring/coaching and extra curricular activities for their kids, they are left with 90K - just like you.

So, everyone is just like you. Rejoice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a common trait of unsuccessful people to ascribe the success of others to luck.

This TED talk seems particularly relevant to this discussion. Attributing others success to luck is a trait of the unsuccessful? Where did you make that up from? I attribute a majority of my own success to the numerous ways I've been lucky in life.

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_does_money_make_you_mean/transcript?language=en

Really? You are going up against decades of established psychology with a talk by some hack on Ted using college kids playing monopoly as his data source?

This published paper on Locus of Control has far more useful information on this subject:

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1293.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a common trait of unsuccessful people to ascribe the success of others to luck.

This TED talk seems particularly relevant to this discussion. Attributing others success to luck is a trait of the unsuccessful? Where did you make that up from? I attribute a majority of my own success to the numerous ways I've been lucky in life.

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_does_money_make_you_mean/transcript?language=en

Just read this transcript and wow, I find this to be a fascinating topic. I tend to agree more with the findings that those who are given advantages in life tend to downplay the effect this has had on their success. And I say this as someone whose parents paid for college and a good chunk of law school. Of course I was hardworking, made good grades, stayed out of trouble, managed to get a sizable merit-based scholarship to a top tier law school, etc., but I would never try to attribute everything I have achieved solely to my own grit and determination.

There is something to be said for having an intact family that pushes the importance of education and can help pay for schooling. I have also been blessed with good health and parents who can fund their own retirement. I think life is a mix of opportunity and hard work.

In some way though, I feel I have been disadvantaged. When I began applying to law school in 2005, it was a great investment still. By the time
I graduated in 2009, the legal market had collapsed. This has had at least some impact on my earning potential so far. nd because I was in school through my mid-20s, I didn't have the opportunity to buy until closer to my late 20s. I'm now pregnant with my first at 30 and don't want to gamble with a bad school district in a high crime area like OP did (I don't think taking chances on safety and schools classifies one as upper middle class). And I married someone with student loans, which is something I couldn't exactly plan for years ago.

My point is that OP took some risks that paid off, has been blessed with no loans, etc. So far things have been working out in her favor, but I think one of the best sayings to remember is "But by the Grace of God there go I." All it takes is one cancer diagnosis, one job loss, a few expensive rounds of IVF, a flooded basement not covered by insurance, or having been born into poverty that could change it all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So for two years we got by on roughly $120 for a family of four (well- kind of) and here's how it looked:

Monthly net of $10k

$1000 hc premiums and expenses
$3500 mortgage/piti
$2000 Uncle Sam
$400 ds speech therapy
$150 gym memberships (not quite but want to keep Mary easy)
$150 travel ($1800 year for 2 trips - 3 plane tickets each trip- to see family)
$500 cable, cell phones, internet, gas/electric
$1000 - food, medicines
$200 - gas
$300 - car insurance
$200 - eating out
$400- 401k
$200- kids clothes, bday parties, parking tickets, wine

No childcare for my dd bc dh was unemployed. My parents paid for my older child to go to preschool (which he had started before dh became unemployed). I think we were still upper middle class because we ate out occasionally, had gym memberships, went to a nice preschool, and we lived in a nice townhouse that had a good public elementary (not that we could use it yet--- and the middle school no way). And we had help for preschool costs to the tune of $10k.

Not at all sustainable for us. No college savings in there. Thank goodness dh is no longer unemployed!!!

We did this a long time ago. very nerve wracking b/c no savings. $200 mon for eating out was pretty slim also. and you have $10K for childcare.

Yes, by all means, one must keep Mary easy.

This OP is some kind of obnoxious crazy! Are you like this IRL? Of course you are!

Anonymous wrote:So for two years we got by on roughly $120 for a family of four (well- kind of) and here's how it looked:

Monthly net of $10k

$1000 hc premiums and expenses
$3500 mortgage/piti
$2000 Uncle Sam
$400 ds speech therapy
$150 gym memberships (not quite but want to keep Mary easy)
$150 travel ($1800 year for 2 trips - 3 plane tickets each trip- to see family)
$500 cable, cell phones, internet, gas/electric
$1000 - food, medicines
$200 - gas
$300 - car insurance
$200 - eating out
$400- 401k
$200- kids clothes, bday parties, parking tickets, wine

No childcare for my dd bc dh was unemployed. My parents paid for my older child to go to preschool (which he had started before dh became unemployed). I think we were still upper middle class because we ate out occasionally, had gym memberships, went to a nice preschool, and we lived in a nice townhouse that had a good public elementary (not that we could use it yet--- and the middle school no way). And we had help for preschool costs to the tune of $10k.

Not at all sustainable for us. No college savings in there. Thank goodness dh is no longer unemployed!!!

We did this a long time ago. very nerve wracking b/c no savings. $200 mon for eating out was pretty slim also. and you have $10K for childcare.

"Usually one must go to a bowling alley to find a women of your stature. "

Ah just kidding.

Anonymous wrote:Op are you day dreaming?
You're below average in this area and you think you're uppper middle?
LOL!

I think it's likely that OP was raised in trailer park (she mentioned she came from lower middle).

Op are you day dreaming?
You're below average in this area and you think you're uppper middle?
LOL!

Anonymous wrote:It is a common trait of unsuccessful people to ascribe the success of others to luck.

This TED talk seems particularly relevant to this discussion. Attributing others success to luck is a trait of the unsuccessful? Where did you make that up from? I attribute a majority of my own success to the numerous ways I've been lucky in life.

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_does_money_make_you_mean/transcript?language=en

Anonymous wrote:OP you sound like you have a wonderful life and did everything right, remember also that God is smiling on you and take the time to enjoy it rather focusing on everyone else. Put yourselves in the shoes of those you scorn for a minute- someone may make more than you but was u able to buy a house pre-bubble, or has student loans to pay, a child with special needs, or parents to care for. Remember a little humility can go a long way. You never know when your fortunes may change so enjoy it while you can and focus on your family. God bless!

+1000