Anonymous
Post 12/31/2014 08:17     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Zimba sounds incredibly naive, totally clueless about writing standards and the actual follow-through that requires.

Why should our children be subject to what he says they should be learning at every grade? He has little classroom experience; he's an academic in a little glass bubble.


And yet somehow the standards he and the others came up with are good standards. They are in fact much better than what we used to have in Maryland, and there's an advantage in that they are common now to many states. The require mastery of basic facts by a certain age, and fluency with STANDARD ALGORITHMS (Carry the 1) by certain grades. Without use of calculators, which is different from what was expected/ allowed in many states.

The biggest problem with the standards is simply that they are set a bit too high for the lowest performing 2-3% of our student population, who will only be able to minimally achieve them. I agree that this is a problem, and those students shouldn't be sacrificed just because they are unable to ever meet these standards.

There is no consensus that these are appropriate standards, even by other professionals.


Correct. Some of the professionals believe that the standards are too easy. And some of the professionals believe that the standards are too difficult. Which suggests that the standards are probably just right.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2014 08:11     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Zimba sounds incredibly naive, totally clueless about writing standards and the actual follow-through that requires.

Why should our children be subject to what he says they should be learning at every grade? He has little classroom experience; he's an academic in a little glass bubble.


And yet somehow the standards he and the others came up with are good standards. They are in fact much better than what we used to have in Maryland, and there's an advantage in that they are common now to many states. The require mastery of basic facts by a certain age, and fluency with STANDARD ALGORITHMS (Carry the 1) by certain grades. Without use of calculators, which is different from what was expected/ allowed in many states.

The biggest problem with the standards is simply that they are set a bit too high for the lowest performing 2-3% of our student population, who will only be able to minimally achieve them. I agree that this is a problem, and those students shouldn't be sacrificed just because they are unable to ever meet these standards.

There is no consensus that these are appropriate standards, even by other professionals.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2014 07:23     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:

Zimba sounds incredibly naive, totally clueless about writing standards and the actual follow-through that requires.

Why should our children be subject to what he says they should be learning at every grade? He has little classroom experience; he's an academic in a little glass bubble.


And yet somehow the standards he and the others came up with are good standards. They are in fact much better than what we used to have in Maryland, and there's an advantage in that they are common now to many states. The require mastery of basic facts by a certain age, and fluency with STANDARD ALGORITHMS (Carry the 1) by certain grades. Without use of calculators, which is different from what was expected/ allowed in many states.

The biggest problem with the standards is simply that they are set a bit too high for the lowest performing 2-3% of our student population, who will only be able to minimally achieve them. I agree that this is a problem, and those students shouldn't be sacrificed just because they are unable to ever meet these standards.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2014 07:19     Subject: Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course better standards are not enough. Nobody ever sad that the Common Core standards, all by themselves, would solve all problems in US education. And of course curriculum is important, given that the standards are only standards; the curriculum is how you get the students to meet the standards.

So what crow is it that I'm supposed to be eating?

Also, congratulations on the selective cut-and-paste and bolding. The blog post you linked to is actually quite interesting, and it does not support your anti-Common Core contentions.


Over and over again we've heard, they are just standards, they're not curriculum, and the tests won't be a driver at all at what kids learn -- instead, teachers can use all the Pintrest ideas!

Turns out that was a big load of shit, just like we all knew who aren't suckers.




Of course high stakes tests will drive what is actually taught in the classroom. That is why it is important to have good tests that are measuring knowledge of good standards. But that doesn't mean that kids in classrooms will be allowed to do nothing but do multiple choice worksheets all day long.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 23:43     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.


Zimba sounds incredibly naive, totally clueless about writing standards and the actual follow-through that requires.

Why should our children be subject to what he says they should be learning at every grade? He has little classroom experience; he's an academic in a little glass bubble.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 22:56     Subject: Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course better standards are not enough. Nobody ever sad that the Common Core standards, all by themselves, would solve all problems in US education. And of course curriculum is important, given that the standards are only standards; the curriculum is how you get the students to meet the standards.

So what crow is it that I'm supposed to be eating?

Also, congratulations on the selective cut-and-paste and bolding. The blog post you linked to is actually quite interesting, and it does not support your anti-Common Core contentions.


Over and over again we've heard, they are just standards, they're not curriculum, and the tests won't be a driver at all at what kids learn -- instead, teachers can use all the Pintrest ideas!

Turns out that was a big load of shit, just like we all knew who aren't suckers.



Correct. They are just standards. They are not curriculum. Just as the blog post says.

And where did anybody say that the tests wouldn't be a driver at all in what kids learn? The tests are supposed to measure whether the students meet the standards. If you're teaching to meet the standards, and the test accurately measures whether the students meet the standards, then by definition you're also teaching to the test.


Exactly. I'm not getting the comment about eating crow.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 20:51     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

What is TOS?


Terms of Service. Jeff has prohibited the posting of just links (and in this case, verbatim snippets from the linked article) to the forums.

If you wish to say something about Common Core, you can incorporate your links, but at least express a point of view.

For the record, I think the articles are histrionic. Common Core is grossly misunderstood and very necessary for our country. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all to have a set of standards of what every child should know after completion of each grade. That's all Common Core does. I find the hand-wringing over it to be absurd. A bunch of right-wing mumbo jumbo about how it's Obama's fault and stuff, when in fact it was a carefully researched, bipartisan grassroots initiative. Common core is common sense.


Well that seals it -- if everyone on Facebook hates it, it must suck.

I'm OP and my experience with Common Core is that my child now despises school. I hear this on Facebook from friends all across the country.

But good on you for being a rule follower! I see why Common Core has such appeal for you.


Your child probably would have despised school regardless of Common Core and I have no doubt your Facebook friends that you're hearing it from are all conservatives.



You need a new Magic 8 ball.

I'm a Democrat, lifelong. As are almost all of my friends. Hatred of Common Core cuts across party lines.



Oh, a teacher's union shill who doesn't want any accountability. Thanks for clarifying.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 20:06     Subject: Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course better standards are not enough. Nobody ever sad that the Common Core standards, all by themselves, would solve all problems in US education. And of course curriculum is important, given that the standards are only standards; the curriculum is how you get the students to meet the standards.

So what crow is it that I'm supposed to be eating?

Also, congratulations on the selective cut-and-paste and bolding. The blog post you linked to is actually quite interesting, and it does not support your anti-Common Core contentions.


Over and over again we've heard, they are just standards, they're not curriculum, and the tests won't be a driver at all at what kids learn -- instead, teachers can use all the Pintrest ideas!

Turns out that was a big load of shit, just like we all knew who aren't suckers.



Correct. They are just standards. They are not curriculum. Just as the blog post says.

And where did anybody say that the tests wouldn't be a driver at all in what kids learn? The tests are supposed to measure whether the students meet the standards. If you're teaching to meet the standards, and the test accurately measures whether the students meet the standards, then by definition you're also teaching to the test.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 20:01     Subject: Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:Of course better standards are not enough. Nobody ever sad that the Common Core standards, all by themselves, would solve all problems in US education. And of course curriculum is important, given that the standards are only standards; the curriculum is how you get the students to meet the standards.

So what crow is it that I'm supposed to be eating?

Also, congratulations on the selective cut-and-paste and bolding. The blog post you linked to is actually quite interesting, and it does not support your anti-Common Core contentions.


Over and over again we've heard, they are just standards, they're not curriculum, and the tests won't be a driver at all at what kids learn -- instead, teachers can use all the Pintrest ideas!

Turns out that was a big load of shit, just like we all knew who aren't suckers.

Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 19:57     Subject: Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Of course better standards are not enough. Nobody ever sad that the Common Core standards, all by themselves, would solve all problems in US education. And of course curriculum is important, given that the standards are only standards; the curriculum is how you get the students to meet the standards.

So what crow is it that I'm supposed to be eating?

Also, congratulations on the selective cut-and-paste and bolding. The blog post you linked to is actually quite interesting, and it does not support your anti-Common Core contentions.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 19:53     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.


Well this NPR interview shows that the idea standards aren't tied to the assessments ARE TOTALLY WRONG. In fact, the main writers of the math standards admit they were COUNTING ON THE TESTS to direct the curriculum.

Lots of people on this and other threads need to eat crow.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/ed/2014/12/29/371918272/the-man-behind-common-core-math

The Man Behind Common Core Math

Every Saturday morning at 10 a.m., Jason Zimba begins a math tutoring session for his two young daughters with the same ritual. Claire, 4, draws on a worksheet while Abigail, 7, pulls addition problems written on strips of paper out of an old Kleenex box decorated like a piggy bank.

If she gets the answer "lickety-split," as her dad says, she can check it off. If she doesn't, the problem goes back in the box, to try the following week.

"I would be sleeping in if I weren't frustrated," Zimba says of his Saturday-morning lessons, which he teaches in his pajamas. He feels the math instruction at Abigail's public elementary school in Manhattan is subpar — even after the school switched to the Common Core State Standards.

But Zimba, a mathematician by training, is not just any disgruntled parent. He's one of the guys who wrote the Common Core

....

. These days, Zimba and his colleagues acknowledge better standards aren't enough.

"I used to think if you got the assessments right, it would virtually be enough," he says. "In the No Child Left Behind world, everything follows from the test."

Now, he says, "I think it's curriculum."
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 19:47     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

What is TOS?


Terms of Service. Jeff has prohibited the posting of just links (and in this case, verbatim snippets from the linked article) to the forums.

If you wish to say something about Common Core, you can incorporate your links, but at least express a point of view.

For the record, I think the articles are histrionic. Common Core is grossly misunderstood and very necessary for our country. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all to have a set of standards of what every child should know after completion of each grade. That's all Common Core does. I find the hand-wringing over it to be absurd. A bunch of right-wing mumbo jumbo about how it's Obama's fault and stuff, when in fact it was a carefully researched, bipartisan grassroots initiative. Common core is common sense.


Well that seals it -- if everyone on Facebook hates it, it must suck.

I'm OP and my experience with Common Core is that my child now despises school. I hear this on Facebook from friends all across the country.

But good on you for being a rule follower! I see why Common Core has such appeal for you.


Your child probably would have despised school regardless of Common Core and I have no doubt your Facebook friends that you're hearing it from are all conservatives.



You need a new Magic 8 ball.

I'm a Democrat, lifelong. As are almost all of my friends. Hatred of Common Core cuts across party lines.

Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 16:04     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.

What truth? Nothing but right wing propaganda and bullshit coming out of you.


What makes you think only one person is responding to you?


Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 13:39     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Anonymous wrote:
Your child probably would have despised school regardless of Common Core and I have no doubt your Facebook friends that you're hearing it from are all conservatives.


Talk about "souring". I guess the truth hurts.



What truth? Nothing but right wing propaganda and bullshit coming out of you.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2014 13:12     Subject: Re:Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.
Your child probably would have despised school regardless of Common Core and I have no doubt your Facebook friends that you're hearing it from are all conservatives.



Talk about "souring". I guess the truth hurts.