Anonymous wrote:Ted Kennedy got drunk and drove off a bridge and killed a girl and got away with it. This country is full of people in power or good ol boy drunks abusing women and no one cares.

The nephew was also accused of rape in Florida. He became a doctor--OB/GYN?

Anonymous wrote:Another parent of a son who is going to be educating him consistently and repeatedly on the concept of consent.

Likewise. So horrified by the stories of the parents threatening to sue the accusers. I assume the parents believe their sons are innocent? I pray that I can teach my child to treat women with respect. I agree that all moms should caution their daughters about the real dangers that are out there, but let's not pretend that the real problem and the critical education lies with those of us raising the men who grow up to either treat women well or abuse them.

Another parent of a son who is going to be educating him consistently and repeatedly on the concept of consent.

Ted Kennedy got drunk and drove off a bridge and killed a girl and got away with it. This country is full of people in power or good ol boy drunks abusing women and no one cares.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's really hard to believe a group of young men who worked hard to get into UVA and presumably care about their future do something so violent and criminal. I mean that's like a war crime type situation.

If it's true, those guys should get life sentences. I'm just having a hard time believing the story as written.

I went to UVA 15+ years ago and not only do I believe it but I am shocked it has taken this long to come out. And, perhaps equally sad in the reaction of her peers, which, IMO, is a very accurate reflection of the mindset of many at that school. I love UVA for so many reasons, but the frat culture there is disgusting. I was in a top sorority and socialized with the guys in these frats a lot. Looking back, as an adult, what went on then and what I am sure goes on now, makes me sick.

What the heck is a TOP sorority? The mindset of the entire Greek system is just stupid. Posers

It is interesting to note that some people find it hard to believe that a certain group mentality might lead to gang rape yet the same mentality to commit murder as been demonstrated for thousands of years in history.

I ordered this book after I first read the Rolling Stone article (it's not available at DC or moco libraries) and it was oddly only $4 hardback. Now it is back up to a normal price - I have a feeling a lot of people will be interested in her story now.

This is what it is about:
In September 2005, Liz Seccuro's world turned upside down when she received an apology letter from the man who had raped her twenty-two years earlier. The rape, which occurred when she was a seventeen-year-old freshman at the University of Virginia, was reported to the campus police, but their inquiry led nowhere. The man accused of raping her left the university soon after, and Seccuro tried to put the incident behind her, starting a business and a family, but like all survivors of trauma, the memory was never far from the surface.


The letter brought it all back. Seccuro bravely began an e-mail correspondence with her rapist to try to understand what happened, and why. As the correspondence continued, Seccuro found the courage to do what should have been done all those years earlier-prosecute him. She began appearing on national television and radio to talk about the case. Several crime dramas and a John Grisham novel, The Associate, were based on her experience. She had found a way to end a terrible story, but once judicial proceedings began, she found that what she thought occurred at that UV A frat party was only the tip of the iceberg. The investigation revealed at least two other assailants, numerous onlookers, and a wall of silence among the fraternity members that persisted two decades later.


Liz Seccuro's inspiring, unflinching memoir is about experiencing terrible trauma-and the power of justice to heal.

Anonymous wrote:

because they said no one would believe it.

Because THEY said no one would believe it?
Why on earth are you taking advise from them?
your rapists!

You should have told your father. If my daughter told me that there would be a unfortunate accident within 5 years.

Anonymous wrote:

because they said no one would believe it.

Because THEY said no one would believe it?
Why on earth are you taking advise from them?
your rapists!

Have you read this thread? They weren't wrong.

Anonymous wrote:It's really hard to believe a group of young men who worked hard to get into UVA and presumably care about their future do something so violent and criminal. I mean that's like a war crime type situation.

If it's true, those guys should get life sentences. I'm just having a hard time believing the story as written.

They know they can get away with it -- so many examples right in front of them.

because they said no one would believe it.

Because THEY said no one would believe it?
Why on earth are you taking advise from them?
your rapists!

Anonymous wrote:To the pp who never reported it:

What would you tell your teenage daughter before sending her away to college to not only prevent such an attack, but also in terms of how she should handle such an attack in terms of who to call and what to do?

It's not about what telling women what to do. It's about telling men what NOT to do. Young men should hold other young men accountable for their behavior.

My boys are very clear that if they EVER do something like that, I will pull their dick in a knot and then use it as a handle to march them down to the police station. They have instructions not just to get consent, but to get ENTHUSIASTIC consent.

As far as handling it -- go to the ER. Get a rape kit done. Report or don't report as you can think best. Get counseling immediately. You won't think it affected you (just a bad night), but it did and it will.

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying that it is common of the mindset of girls at UVA to try and talk their friend who is bloody and bruised, out of reporting a gang rape, because they might not be invited to parties?

Yes, for many women, it's more important to not be dateless than to do the right thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't necessarily believe the story, but I don't wonder why victims don't come forward either. I'm inclined to believe most accusations of rape, but I also realize that there are women out there who would lie about such things. I reserve judgement in this case. It just doesn't seem that there is enough evidence presented in this article to come down on a particular side. Why are you so certain that the accusations are valid?

It happened to me. I didn't report. Two fraternity members raped me, with my ex-boyfriend's permission. It was planned. I didn't report it because they said no one would believe it. They were right. Nothing ever changes in American society.

PP. This is awful. Awful . Awful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am stunned that the victim's friends were so cold and uncaring, despite her obvious distress and what sounds like visible injuries from being beaten. When I think back to my freshman year of college i can not imagine even one of my friends reacting that way, let alone a whole group of them. Telling her she should have enjoyed it? That she'll be "that girl" and ruin their chances at getting into a sorority or fraternity? I just can't wrap my brain around the fact that it wasn't just one crappy (personality disordered) friend who treated her this way, but several, according to the article. And that their own social status was the first thing they thought of upon seeing her immediately afterward in obvious physical and emotional distress. Unfathomable.

Not to mention that these seven men behaved so monstrously, as a pack. How is that possible? I always thought it would take a sociopath to rape, beat and torture a woman, but that these seven young men did this together is chilling.

Go read about the Stanford Prison Experiment. Go read about Abu Ghraib. Then get back to us.

Those people weren't sociopaths. They were just people who were in a social situation that gave them permission to abuse someone in a "lesser" position. So they did.

And there you have it: these incidents are a microcosm of our society (and economy) as a whole.