Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 14:54     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am so tired of hearing about overinvolved parents. Hate to break it to you, but if parents paying a fortune to a private school caring about where their children will go to college (that they are also paying for) makes them overinvolved, then what does that make all of the moms on this site, some of whom post multiple times a day commenting, asking, complaining, snarking, etc. about thie child's school? Why bother having kids then? I don't know what generation the PP is from, but I know that my generation was raised for the most part with involved parents. These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.


The following comes directly from the Sidwell College Counseling page, and is their statement of philosophy:
A key element in a student-centered approach to the college process is the clear expectation that the student will take control. We strive to enable students to develop a fuller sense of autonomy and responsibility. As such, our job is to guide, counsel, probe, refer, suggest and inform. The student is the one ultimately responsible for the key decisions in driving this process forward. Students must also be responsible for signing up for the appropriate standardized tests and meeting application deadlines.


No wonder there is so much dissatisfaction. What Sidwell clearly states it's going to do, intentionally, is at direct odds with what some parents want it to do.



Uh-huh. And the queen bee at Sidwell who touted this philosophy got fired last year, not in small part because everyone resented her anti-parent attitude. They get the parents involved when they want money or want the parents to make their kids fall in line. All that passage is really is a disclaimer that if the kid misses an application deadline or doesn't sign up for the SAT when they are supposed to, then it's not the kids fault.



Oops...meant to say it's not the school's fault.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 14:53     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am so tired of hearing about overinvolved parents. Hate to break it to you, but if parents paying a fortune to a private school caring about where their children will go to college (that they are also paying for) makes them overinvolved, then what does that make all of the moms on this site, some of whom post multiple times a day commenting, asking, complaining, snarking, etc. about thie child's school? Why bother having kids then? I don't know what generation the PP is from, but I know that my generation was raised for the most part with involved parents. These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.


The following comes directly from the Sidwell College Counseling page, and is their statement of philosophy:
A key element in a student-centered approach to the college process is the clear expectation that the student will take control. We strive to enable students to develop a fuller sense of autonomy and responsibility. As such, our job is to guide, counsel, probe, refer, suggest and inform. The student is the one ultimately responsible for the key decisions in driving this process forward. Students must also be responsible for signing up for the appropriate standardized tests and meeting application deadlines.


No wonder there is so much dissatisfaction. What Sidwell clearly states it's going to do, intentionally, is at direct odds with what some parents want it to do.



Uh-huh. And the queen bee at Sidwell who touted this philosophy got fired last year, not in small part because everyone resented her anti-parent attitude. They get the parents involved when they want money or want the parents to make their kids fall in line. All that passage is really is a disclaimer that if the kid misses an application deadline or doesn't sign up for the SAT when they are supposed to, then it's not the kids fault.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 14:41     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped.


I sense some hyperbole in this statement, coming from second or third hand knowledge. "Top" students at Sidwell are not advised to avoid applying to at least a reach school or two. The very rare candidate gets into all of their reach schools. Perhaps they managed the family's expectations inelegantly, but I doubt the extremes you paint reflect the realities of the situation.


Can I know his exact rank at Sidwell? Of course not. My colleague shared the rest with me and that he felt that Sidwell chose to support other kids over his, who seemed equally qualified.


No bias there, LOL. Great basis to call people's integrity into question.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 14:08     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
I am so tired of hearing about overinvolved parents. Hate to break it to you, but if parents paying a fortune to a private school caring about where their children will go to college (that they are also paying for) makes them overinvolved, then what does that make all of the moms on this site, some of whom post multiple times a day commenting, asking, complaining, snarking, etc. about thie child's school? Why bother having kids then? I don't know what generation the PP is from, but I know that my generation was raised for the most part with involved parents. These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.


The following comes directly from the Sidwell College Counseling page, and is their statement of philosophy:
A key element in a student-centered approach to the college process is the clear expectation that the student will take control. We strive to enable students to develop a fuller sense of autonomy and responsibility. As such, our job is to guide, counsel, probe, refer, suggest and inform. The student is the one ultimately responsible for the key decisions in driving this process forward. Students must also be responsible for signing up for the appropriate standardized tests and meeting application deadlines.


No wonder there is so much dissatisfaction. What Sidwell clearly states it's going to do, intentionally, is at direct odds with what some parents want it to do.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 14:01     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
This thread is revealing a home truth of this forum. Is something good happens at a school, it is a result of the hard work and effort of the child and/or his/her parents. If something bad happens, it is the fault of the school.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 13:44     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:"My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped."

Awesome response by that family! A great life lesson for their child. Definitely good to be "very bitter" about a school where their child got an excellent education and had many good friends, and to focus only on the advice from a single individual in college counseling. Thanks for sharing!


So they should continue to financially support a school who dropped the ball at the end zone, so to speak?
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 13:44     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have heard the opposite story, a student who was told a particular school (a SLAC) was a good bet for ED and he was rejected, not even deferred. The family was very upset the guidance counselor had been so optimistic. They really can't win. So much of this is a reflection of overinvolved parents with unrealistic expectations. And when their DC doesn't get into a school they think they "should" have gotten into, they have to blame someone.



I am so tired of hearing about overinvolved parents. Hate to break it to you, but if parents paying a fortune to a private school caring about where their children will go to college (that they are also paying for) makes them overinvolved, then what does that make all of the moms on this site, some of whom post multiple times a day commenting, asking, complaining, snarking, etc. about thie child's school? Why bother having kids then? I don't know what generation the PP is from, but I know that my generation was raised for the most part with involved parents. These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.


I'm PP. I did my own college applications. It was my future and my parents understood that. My DC who is a freshman did his own applications just fine. "Why bother having kids then?" Thats just ridiculous, as is the idea that if you are paying for private school, they must do your bidding.

Bottom line: your child will not get into a college because of your involvement and if your child is rejected by a college it will not be the guidance counselor's fault.

Actually the why bother having kids line is pretty hilarious, the more I think about it.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 13:42     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped.


I sense some hyperbole in this statement, coming from second or third hand knowledge. "Top" students at Sidwell are not advised to avoid applying to at least a reach school or two. The very rare candidate gets into all of their reach schools. Perhaps they managed the family's expectations inelegantly, but I doubt the extremes you paint reflect the realities of the situation.


Can I know his exact rank at Sidwell? Of course not. My colleague shared the rest with me and that he felt that Sidwell chose to support other kids over his, who seemed equally qualified.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 13:38     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have heard the opposite story, a student who was told a particular school (a SLAC) was a good bet for ED and he was rejected, not even deferred. The family was very upset the guidance counselor had been so optimistic. They really can't win. So much of this is a reflection of overinvolved parents with unrealistic expectations. And when their DC doesn't get into a school they think they "should" have gotten into, they have to blame someone.



I am so tired of hearing about overinvolved parents. Hate to break it to you, but if parents paying a fortune to a private school caring about where their children will go to college (that they are also paying for) makes them overinvolved, then what does that make all of the moms on this site, some of whom post multiple times a day commenting, asking, complaining, snarking, etc. about thie child's school? Why bother having kids then? I don't know what generation the PP is from, but I know that my generation was raised for the most part with involved parents. These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.


Your post -- in particular the old chestnut "I pay your salary" -- reeks of condescension, privilege, entitlement, and lack of empathy. So much of this thread attacking and impugning college counselors makes my skin crawl. I can only hope that people are not at their best on this one issue of college admissions but that the better angels of their nature are present for most of the rest of the time their children are at these schools.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 12:45     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have heard the opposite story, a student who was told a particular school (a SLAC) was a good bet for ED and he was rejected, not even deferred. The family was very upset the guidance counselor had been so optimistic. They really can't win. So much of this is a reflection of overinvolved parents with unrealistic expectations. And when their DC doesn't get into a school they think they "should" have gotten into, they have to blame someone.



I am so tired of hearing about overinvolved parents. Hate to break it to you, but if parents paying a fortune to a private school caring about where their children will go to college (that they are also paying for) makes them overinvolved, then what does that make all of the moms on this site, some of whom post multiple times a day commenting, asking, complaining, snarking, etc. about thie child's school? Why bother having kids then? I don't know what generation the PP is from, but I know that my generation was raised for the most part with involved parents. These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.



+1
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 12:29     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:I have heard the opposite story, a student who was told a particular school (a SLAC) was a good bet for ED and he was rejected, not even deferred. The family was very upset the guidance counselor had been so optimistic. They really can't win. So much of this is a reflection of overinvolved parents with unrealistic expectations. And when their DC doesn't get into a school they think they "should" have gotten into, they have to blame someone.



I am so tired of hearing about overinvolved parents. Hate to break it to you, but if parents paying a fortune to a private school caring about where their children will go to college (that they are also paying for) makes them overinvolved, then what does that make all of the moms on this site, some of whom post multiple times a day commenting, asking, complaining, snarking, etc. about thie child's school? Why bother having kids then? I don't know what generation the PP is from, but I know that my generation was raised for the most part with involved parents. These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 12:27     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My child was repeatedly steered away from Harvard when she had everything she needed to get in and she got in. There wasn't any question about it. " not Harvard" can't be misinterpreted She had already gotten into Princeton early.
One parent told people that as a member of the board that her child would get into an ivy. Another bragged about having a letter from pres Obama. These were both big donor families. Conclusion?
.

Ther is a big difference between "not Harvard" and "not likely Harvard", which is a true statement for any candidate. Anyone. Very glad that your daughter beat the odds. Most don't. The rest of your comments are complete non sequiturs. Being on the board at Yale is helpful to admissions prospects at Yale. If you are taliking about the board of one individual private high school, of which there are thousands across the country, nobody in college admissions would give a shit.


I wasn't clear. " not Harvard" I was told. Not likely wasn't the message because it wasn't what the person repeatedly said and there was already an acceptance to princeton. There is steering. And we weren't victims because we didn't follow the advice we paid for. This is meant as advice on discriminatory practices, I certainly don't feel sorry for myself. And the parent was on the board of the private school and expected steering to benefit her offspring and was advertising it.
Also my child did withdraw most of her applications after getting in early at Princeton but she had several real reasons for not wanting to go there- like the eating clubs. And several depts h is deep in and p is short in that my kid was interested in. Why did she apply early to a school that wasn't her first choice. Because there 5 Harvard legacies and a few athletes and a few friends of the pres Obama and a few big donors all in line ahead of her. There is steering for sure. But also after she got into P and I gave the reasons not to withdraw from Harvard consideration the counselor was understanding. But it was a long road.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 12:03     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:"My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped."

Awesome response by that family! A great life lesson for their child. Definitely good to be "very bitter" about a school where their child got an excellent education and had many good friends, and to focus only on the advice from a single individual in college counseling. Thanks for sharing!


Typical snarky response. How in the world would you expect the family to feel? They DID pay all the money to achieve everything you now rub in their face but look at the college counseling advice they received......
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 11:59     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
I have heard the opposite story, a student who was told a particular school (a SLAC) was a good bet for ED and he was rejected, not even deferred. The family was very upset the guidance counselor had been so optimistic. They really can't win. So much of this is a reflection of overinvolved parents with unrealistic expectations. And when their DC doesn't get into a school they think they "should" have gotten into, they have to blame someone.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2014 11:59     Subject: Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3
Anonymous wrote:My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped.


I sense some hyperbole in this statement, coming from second or third hand knowledge. "Top" students at Sidwell are not advised to avoid applying to at least a reach school or two. The very rare candidate gets into all of their reach schools. Perhaps they managed the family's expectations inelegantly, but I doubt the extremes you paint reflect the realities of the situation.