Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You sound very privileged to enjoy the benefits of living in American society where you can have your cake, eat it too and not be beheaded for it. When you were in Saudi Arabia, were you privileged enough to walk down the street unaccompanied by a man?

You are too much. There's lots of women physicians in Saudi. Women there don't have rights but let's not pretend they don't have professional women, they do. And they are educated in the U.S. on the government dime, too.

Dont' mind her. She's the Islamophobe that hops from thread to thread spreading as much anti-Islam as she can.

Please. You are the misogynist that hops around from thread to thread spreading as much hatred of women as you can.

I am meeting my dress maker to get my full niqab made tomorrow. I feel it's only appropriate since I live in upper NW. I need to be proper and it will be so much more flattering than my yoga pants and bare face.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You sound very privileged to enjoy the benefits of living in American society where you can have your cake, eat it too and not be beheaded for it. When you were in Saudi Arabia, were you privileged enough to walk down the street unaccompanied by a man?

You are too much. There's lots of women physicians in Saudi. Women there don't have rights but let's not pretend they don't have professional women, they do. And they are educated in the U.S. on the government dime, too.

Dont' mind her. She's the Islamophobe that hops from thread to thread spreading as much anti-Islam as she can.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Saudi Arabia many years ago and yes women walked down the street unaccompanied, but of course fully veiled. you would even see women (usually with a baby) begging at street corners.

Women walk alone in the street all the time in Egypt, North Africa, and the Levantine countries. Prior to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism the vast majority did not cover up, but that has changed and many now wear hijab. Women also drive unaccompanied in those latter countries.

I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, with their husbands, or their children, or with other women. I saw them shopping in the malls alone too. Distinctly remember one veiled Arab woman buying extraordinary jewelry in the mall there, all by herself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You sound very privileged to enjoy the benefits of living in American society where you can have your cake, eat it too and not be beheaded for it. When you were in Saudi Arabia, were you privileged enough to walk down the street unaccompanied by a man?

You are too much. There's lots of women physicians in Saudi. Women there don't have rights but let's not pretend they don't have professional women, they do. And they are educated in the U.S. on the government dime, too.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Saudi Arabia many years ago and yes women walked down the street unaccompanied, but of course fully veiled. you would even see women (usually with a baby) begging at street corners.

Women walk alone in the street all the time in Egypt, North Africa, and the Levantine countries. Prior to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism the vast majority did not cover up, but that has changed and many now wear hijab. Women also drive unaccompanied in those latter countries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you in some ways. However, I do think it is a disservice to call people islamaphobes. You do agree that For a long time now, the extremists have tainted the Muslim religion into things that it may not totally represent. And I'm not just talking about ISIS. I'm talking about the treatment of women, the stonings, the fact that i had a patient last week who wouldn't talk unless her husband gave her permission to. I like to think I'm educated enough not to view all Muslims in a negative light, but you also have to understand why so many do.

Instead of finding people who say Muslims aren't all the negative things as they are depicted to be, you may have a better shot of finding examples of people who go against the stereotype. Not just scholarly articles or people talking.

The thing is, that woman's husband could bring you a dozen rulings from decreed sheikhs explaining, with full chain of evidence, that what his wife did was proper and correct.

I understand that. My point is that it is not islamaphobic to think that is so incredibly backwards that when a woman shows up in the ER with obvious pain, she couldn't tell me how bad her pain was without her husbands permission. It is not Isis you are fighting against with why people think Muslims are "bad" it's more like the examples that you see of how they treat women. And I don't think it makes me an islamaphobic to say I was very disturbed by the dynamic I saw between the two of them or that I think the treatment of women who've been raped is backwards and disgusting.

What I think is backwards is for you to think that a religion of 1.6 Billion people won't allow women to speak to a physician without their husband's permission. This is the kind of narrative that serves nothing but to dissipate more stereotypes about the alpha Muslim man and submissive muslim woman. For crying out loud, one of the youngest doctors in the world today is a 20 year old Muslim woman, I doubt she waits for her husband's permission before consulting with her patients. The Qur’an itself is not only egalitarian but decidedly anti-patriarchal, as is Islam as it was practiced by our Prophet SAW, who was in many ways a feminist. Whenever Muslim women have been oppressed, it was due to patriarchal laws that have no place in Islam. Since the Qur’an was revealed to a patriarchy and has been interpreted a lot by adherents of patriarchy since its revelation, it is the readings of the Qur’an and the interpretations by patriarchal Muslims that appear to be oppressive, not the Qur’an itself, whose teachings are neither framed by nor concerned with patriarchy, as proven by its strongly egalitarian essence and emphasis of equality & justice !

OP here. My sister is a physician.. My brother in law is a surgeon. My husband is also a physician. My sister and I do not need our husband's permission to speak to anyone. EVER. All of them speak to both women and men alike. I have been in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and India. I assure you, if you want to find extremism in Islam in those countries you will. There may be a few immigrants in this country who are also extremists. But this is not Islam.

You sound very privileged to enjoy the benefits of living in American society where you can have your cake, eat it too and not be beheaded for it. When you were in Saudi Arabia, were you privileged enough to walk down the street unaccompanied by a man?

Anonymous wrote:No one walks in Saudi except maids

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You sound very privileged to enjoy the benefits of living in American society where you can have your cake, eat it too and not be beheaded for it. When you were in Saudi Arabia, were you privileged enough to walk down the street unaccompanied by a man?

You are too much. There's lots of women physicians in Saudi. Women there don't have rights but let's not pretend they don't have professional women, they do. And they are educated in the U.S. on the government dime, too.

Anonymous wrote:

You sound very privileged to enjoy the benefits of living in American society where you can have your cake, eat it too and not be beheaded for it. When you were in Saudi Arabia, were you privileged enough to walk down the street unaccompanied by a man?

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you in some ways. However, I do think it is a disservice to call people islamaphobes. You do agree that For a long time now, the extremists have tainted the Muslim religion into things that it may not totally represent. And I'm not just talking about ISIS. I'm talking about the treatment of women, the stonings, the fact that i had a patient last week who wouldn't talk unless her husband gave her permission to. I like to think I'm educated enough not to view all Muslims in a negative light, but you also have to understand why so many do.

Instead of finding people who say Muslims aren't all the negative things as they are depicted to be, you may have a better shot of finding examples of people who go against the stereotype. Not just scholarly articles or people talking.

The thing is, that woman's husband could bring you a dozen rulings from decreed sheikhs explaining, with full chain of evidence, that what his wife did was proper and correct.

I understand that. My point is that it is not islamaphobic to think that is so incredibly backwards that when a woman shows up in the ER with obvious pain, she couldn't tell me how bad her pain was without her husbands permission. It is not Isis you are fighting against with why people think Muslims are "bad" it's more like the examples that you see of how they treat women. And I don't think it makes me an islamaphobic to say I was very disturbed by the dynamic I saw between the two of them or that I think the treatment of women who've been raped is backwards and disgusting.

What I think is backwards is for you to think that a religion of 1.6 Billion people won't allow women to speak to a physician without their husband's permission. This is the kind of narrative that serves nothing but to dissipate more stereotypes about the alpha Muslim man and submissive muslim woman. For crying out loud, one of the youngest doctors in the world today is a 20 year old Muslim woman, I doubt she waits for her husband's permission before consulting with her patients. The Qur’an itself is not only egalitarian but decidedly anti-patriarchal, as is Islam as it was practiced by our Prophet SAW, who was in many ways a feminist. Whenever Muslim women have been oppressed, it was due to patriarchal laws that have no place in Islam. Since the Qur’an was revealed to a patriarchy and has been interpreted a lot by adherents of patriarchy since its revelation, it is the readings of the Qur’an and the interpretations by patriarchal Muslims that appear to be oppressive, not the Qur’an itself, whose teachings are neither framed by nor concerned with patriarchy, as proven by its strongly egalitarian essence and emphasis of equality & justice !

OP here. My sister is a physician.. My brother in law is a surgeon. My husband is also a physician. My sister and I do not need our husband's permission to speak to anyone. EVER. All of them speak to both women and men alike. I have been in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and India. I assure you, if you want to find extremism in Islam in those countries you will. There may be a few immigrants in this country who are also extremists. But this is not Islam.

Anonymous wrote:How do jinn fit into monotheism? It sounds like these are creatures with super-natural powers of their own.

Maybe I need to take this to the Trinity thread.