Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 17:31     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think it's misguided to think it's just an "easy A" for "native speakers" - Even "native speakers" can benefit from a language program. I grew up on the Texas border and my Spanish class was full of native speakers - but many of them still had issues with grammar and other aspects of the language. Just because it's spoken at home doesn't necessarily mean there is appropriate fluency and proficiency.


Sure they can benefit but putting native speakers into the same class as non-native speakers doesn't serve either group. For all intents and purposes, the upper grade Mandarin classes in MoCo serve as an "easy A" for native speakers. Since grades are on a curve, it's never an "A" for non-native speakers which is a consideration for what you want to appear on your transcript for college admissions.


Why wouldn't it be a benefit? Good for interaction between students. Maybe an "easy A" but so what?


All the non-native speakers drop the class b/c having native speakers in the class skews the grade curve so there is no interaction. If you look at the higher grades in MoCo, it's filled with native speakers but few/none non-native speakers.

Ridiculous. Tax payer support for kids who don't need to learn the language...
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 16:23     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think it's misguided to think it's just an "easy A" for "native speakers" - Even "native speakers" can benefit from a language program. I grew up on the Texas border and my Spanish class was full of native speakers - but many of them still had issues with grammar and other aspects of the language. Just because it's spoken at home doesn't necessarily mean there is appropriate fluency and proficiency.


Sure they can benefit but putting native speakers into the same class as non-native speakers doesn't serve either group. For all intents and purposes, the upper grade Mandarin classes in MoCo serve as an "easy A" for native speakers. Since grades are on a curve, it's never an "A" for non-native speakers which is a consideration for what you want to appear on your transcript for college admissions.


Why wouldn't it be a benefit? Good for interaction between students. Maybe an "easy A" but so what?
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 14:35     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Furthermore, people do the same in college. I'm a native speaker and saw people who are native speakers in my language do this all the time for the "A".
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 14:31     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:I think it's misguided to think it's just an "easy A" for "native speakers" - Even "native speakers" can benefit from a language program. I grew up on the Texas border and my Spanish class was full of native speakers - but many of them still had issues with grammar and other aspects of the language. Just because it's spoken at home doesn't necessarily mean there is appropriate fluency and proficiency.


Sure they can benefit but putting native speakers into the same class as non-native speakers doesn't serve either group. For all intents and purposes, the upper grade Mandarin classes in MoCo serve as an "easy A" for native speakers. Since grades are on a curve, it's never an "A" for non-native speakers which is a consideration for what you want to appear on your transcript for college admissions.
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 14:18     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
I think it's misguided to think it's just an "easy A" for "native speakers" - Even "native speakers" can benefit from a language program. I grew up on the Texas border and my Spanish class was full of native speakers - but many of them still had issues with grammar and other aspects of the language. Just because it's spoken at home doesn't necessarily mean there is appropriate fluency and proficiency.
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 13:53     Subject: Re:Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Well I guess it's clear why native Mandarin speakers think it's superior, it serves them very well!
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 13:01     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
The truth is that in MoCo, native speakers take Mandarin in the upper grades b/c it's an "easy A" to get for their language requirement.

In the process, the kids who are non-native speakers leave for other programs b/c the MoCo model in the upper grades is not really geared for teaching Mandarin to non-native speakers.

Don't know why anyone would think this is a superior model for teaching Mandarin.



Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 10:17     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:how do the test scores compare for YY and the moco immersion, is there a chinese test score that can be compared?


I have no idea of the answer to this, but from reading in the MD forum, I'd say that families where no one in the home is a native Mandarin speaker would ONLY want to be at YY, because it sounds like a) the upper grade instruction options are limited in MD, b) the instruction models leave many non-native speaking students left out (i.e. I'm guessing it's not an immersion at PS/PK, then 50/50 model. It sounds like classes, so at most a couple hours a day as opposed to all day every other day); and c) at the higher levels the native speakers ace the tests and the non-native speakers by and large don't look so good in the tests and are actually put out of the program, which sounds just awful!

So if its' true - and I don't know that it is, it just seems that way from what I read over there - the test scores may be better in MD because it's a much MUCH higher % of native speakers taking the tests, but it doesn't mean that a non-native speaker learning in MD would test better than YY students.

I actually think it would be great to have real, actual test comparisons. Maybe they should have a test class of MoCo, FFX, and YY students take the same test at the same grade and see how everyone performs (needless to say it should be written and oral). I'm assuming that's never been done?
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 10:11     Subject: Re:Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You mean in general, or just where learning Mandarin and about Chinese culture is concerned? We've lost a bunch of neighbors to MoCo in the course of the last decade over public school quality issues.

It's actually not a bad idea for YY parents to get to open houses at the Rockville Chinese immersion programs (College Gardens and Potomoc for elementary, as well as the MS program at Robert Frost). If you're open to learning, you can pick up ideas on how to step up your game in a way that's fun for your YY student(s). Attrition is much lower at those programs, so most of the kids who enter in K are still in immerion classes in 8th grade.



Hilarious. The MD folks keep coming to YY because it's doing waaaaay more than they are!!!! seriously. I was part of a parent delegation that took them through classrooms and they were awed.


This last post made me go check out the MD school forum for threads about Chinese language study there. All I can say is, much to my surprise, I walk away EVEN MORE GRATEFUL TO BE AT YY!!! It sounds like the non-native speakers there have a really hard time and get tested OUT of study in upper grades, which sounds awful! And this this conversation about "if you don't study Chinese in high school, it won't matter that your child is proficient before HS but couldn't take further classes in high school, colleges only really care about kids who took 3-4 years of Chinese IN high school"... So grateful that the issue of either being placed out of classes or not being able to study hopefully won't be issues with DCI.

Also, SO INTERESTING that a lot of non-native speakers feel left out or excluded because their Mandarin isn't good enough (even with being at these popular MoCo bilingual schools), the teachers talk to the native speakers and Mandarin and the non-native speakers have no idea what's going on. Right there I read that and was grateful for YY's model.

I was never concerned with what MoCo was doing re: Mandarin instruction - as far as I'm concerned, the more, the merrier. And it is good to learn from other systems, I would hope YY never feels like they don't have anything else to learn. But it was really eye-opening to read those threads. Honestly, it sounds like the whole never-ended assault on Yu Ying for not having a Chinese administration might also be influential Chinese families wanting leverage for entrance that they're not getting through the current Admins who are diligent about running a fair admissions process. That is NOT to say I don't see the huge advantages to a higher % of native speaking students, but I also believe the random admission process is more important to keep access open (if there are any non-sib spots ever again!). But the more I read about non-native speaking students in MoCo feeling pushed out or actually being tested out because native speakers of course get better scores, the more the Emperor started to really look nekkid to me!
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 09:43     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
how do the test scores compare for YY and the moco immersion, is there a chinese test score that can be compared?
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 09:39     Subject: Re:Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You mean in general, or just where learning Mandarin and about Chinese culture is concerned? We've lost a bunch of neighbors to MoCo in the course of the last decade over public school quality issues.

It's actually not a bad idea for YY parents to get to open houses at the Rockville Chinese immersion programs (College Gardens and Potomoc for elementary, as well as the MS program at Robert Frost). If you're open to learning, you can pick up ideas on how to step up your game in a way that's fun for your YY student(s). Attrition is much lower at those programs, so most of the kids who enter in K are still in immerion classes in 8th grade.



Hilarious. The MD folks keep coming to YY because it's doing waaaaay more than they are!!!! seriously. I was part of a parent delegation that took them through classrooms and they were awed.


It will never end, apparently. The anti-YY, "Ooooh MoCo is so superior" silliness.
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 08:18     Subject: Re:Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:You mean in general, or just where learning Mandarin and about Chinese culture is concerned? We've lost a bunch of neighbors to MoCo in the course of the last decade over public school quality issues.

It's actually not a bad idea for YY parents to get to open houses at the Rockville Chinese immersion programs (College Gardens and Potomoc for elementary, as well as the MS program at Robert Frost). If you're open to learning, you can pick up ideas on how to step up your game in a way that's fun for your YY student(s). Attrition is much lower at those programs, so most of the kids who enter in K are still in immerion classes in 8th grade.



Hilarious. The MD folks keep coming to YY because it's doing waaaaay more than they are!!!! seriously. I was part of a parent delegation that took them through classrooms and they were awed.
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2014 05:56     Subject: Re:Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You mean in general, or just where learning Mandarin and about Chinese culture is concerned? We've lost a bunch of neighbors to MoCo in the course of the last decade over public school quality issues.

It's actually not a bad idea for YY parents to get to open houses at the Rockville Chinese immersion programs (College Gardens and Potomoc for elementary, as well as the MS program at Robert Frost). If you're open to learning, you can pick up ideas on how to step up your game in a way that's fun for your YY student(s). Attrition is much lower at those programs, so most of the kids who enter in K are still in immerion classes in 8th grade.



Since there is no chance of us moving to MoCo, there is no reason to go "see". If you want the Chinese immersion program in MD, move there so you can have the real thing. Attrition is really low at YY, thanks. It's the only game in town unlike MoCo where many kids leave for AAP in third and fourth grades.


Right, no reason to go "see." The MoCo programs do more with Mandarin and cultural studies than YY, and have been at it longer. We came back with a list of ideas and resources that we hadn't been aware of (new software programs and DVDs, teaching materials on-line, summer camps native speakers use etc.), particularly for the MS level. We sat in on a presentation on steps to take to prevent your older child and teenager from rebeling against immersion.

AAP? You mean the MoCo 4th and 5th grade Centers for the Highly Gifted?
Anonymous
Post 08/08/2014 19:35     Subject: Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:"counseled out" is nothing but an artificial concept being thrown out there by people with an agenda. Schools aren't telling students to go elsewhere. It's up to parents, students and families to find what works best for them.

A better fit elsewhere is a better fit elsewhere. There's no "counseling out".

Not every kid is a perfect fit with every school. Every student is a little different from the next. And every school is a little different than the next. And that goes whether YY, DCPS, private, or every other school in DC.


...says someone who clearly knows NOTHING about either charters in DC or DCPS...
Anonymous
Post 08/08/2014 17:15     Subject: Re:Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You mean in general, or just where learning Mandarin and about Chinese culture is concerned? We've lost a bunch of neighbors to MoCo in the course of the last decade over public school quality issues.

It's actually not a bad idea for YY parents to get to open houses at the Rockville Chinese immersion programs (College Gardens and Potomoc for elementary, as well as the MS program at Robert Frost). If you're open to learning, you can pick up ideas on how to step up your game in a way that's fun for your YY student(s). Attrition is much lower at those programs, so most of the kids who enter in K are still in immerion classes in 8th grade.



Since there is no chance of us moving to MoCo, there is no reason to go "see". If you want the Chinese immersion program in MD, move there so you can have the real thing. Attrition is really low at YY, thanks. It's the only game in town unlike MoCo where many kids leave for AAP in third and fourth grades.


Sorry, meant HGC since it's MoCo but anyway, lots of kids leave immersion for G&T, STEM or whatever... Wish we had as many options in DC.