Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the question to be asked is what people consider to be "good" schools vs "bad" schools. Is it the kids? The teachers and staff? Administration? Performance on standardized tests? SES of the student population? It's a subjective opinion as to what makes a school good or bad. Are we all talking about the same things when we say "good" schools or "bad" schools? I would be very interested in hearing peoples' opinions on this.

It's the kids. People aren't comfortable saying that out loud. If you took the population of Whitman and traded it with the population of Wheaton, suddenly Wheaton would be the "better" school. When people say it's not about race or SES, that they just want the "better" school, what they are not saying is that the "better" school is always the whiter/Asian school.

Ok but why? Is it really just racism or are the whiter/Asian schools doing something differently? Is it the students behavior, the dedication to academic achievement, the commitment to college? Why are the white/Asian schools better?

Anonymous wrote:I think the question to be asked is what people consider to be "good" schools vs "bad" schools. Is it the kids? The teachers and staff? Administration? Performance on standardized tests? SES of the student population? It's a subjective opinion as to what makes a school good or bad. Are we all talking about the same things when we say "good" schools or "bad" schools? I would be very interested in hearing peoples' opinions on this.

It's the kids. People aren't comfortable saying that out loud. If you took the population of Whitman and traded it with the population of Wheaton, suddenly Wheaton would be the "better" school. When people say it's not about race or SES, that they just want the "better" school, what they are not saying is that the "better" school is always the whiter/Asian school.

Anonymous wrote:"Folks, you can dial back your diatribes. This isn't happening, certainly not soon and probably not ever. "

"If you're in a "bad" school, its going to stay that way for quite a while, and if you're in a "good" school you've got nothing to fear, for years if at all."

Some of the diatribes are by those in the bad school group. And the last few posts indicate at least some of us would simply like to see MCPS consider how to woo back the families already in the red zone.

I'm in the woo us back group. There are boundary studies coming up in the next year or so intended to deal with overcrowding issues in the elementary schools in at least part of the red zone. So a fine-tuning sort of boundary adjustment is very likely to happen in the near future even if the idea of an overhaul is pretty much pure fantasy at this point. Maybe faced with the choice of an increasingly angry mob of red zone families that are calling on him to completely overhaul boundaries, he can at least take this more localized boundary study seriously and not disregard input from community members when they explain what it would take to get them back. At least one board member was clear that she thought it was time for at least one of the pairings to be split because the affected communities have consistently expressed displeasure with it and all numbers show that it's not actually balancing demographics and is instead causing a bizarrely high number of families to claim hardship transfers. Starr should be hearing that concern and acting on it, not hiding his head in the sand. Do something real for a change. There are things he can do that don't require the huge undertaking of county-wide bussing, but he needs to start TRULY listening to what communities are saying, not just holding meetings that allow him to say he sought community feedback.

Anonymous wrote:They should divide the county in thirds. Bethesda/Rockville/Potomac in one third; the way out boonies (Clarksburg, Poolsville, Gaithersburg and that ilk) and The Other Area (Wheaton, Silver Spring and everywhere else). Works for me, and helps out with weather closings. Make it happen, Starr.

This is not going to happen. It's just not. In Maryland, the school districts go by county. Please think of some solutions that are actually possible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone pays the same rate based on their assessed value. If your Wheaton zoned house is assessed at $100 and the tax rate is 5%, you contribute $5 to the education funds. If you live in Whitman and your house is assessed at $200, you contribute $10 to the education fund pool.

Stop this nonsense and silly semantics.
Drivers of property value are School Quality, Commute Time, Crime rates, Size of land, Quality of build/renovations, Garage, Square Footage, etc.
Number 1 driver of property value in the USA is school zoning.

That's why there will be no major boundary changes.

Stop talking about property taxes = assessment * tax rate per $100 value of assessment. Grow up and keep your eye on the ball. People in America buy the best house they can afford for the schools (if they have/want kids).

Property values are not zero sum. If you live in the current Whitman boundaries, and Whitman is no longer 70% white and 0% poor, because students from a different neighborhood are going to Whitman, then maybe your property value will decline. But the property values in that different neighborhood will go up.

And, frankly, the purpose of a public school system, or of public government in general, is not to maintain the status quo of high property values in this neighborhood and low property values in that neighborhood.

"Folks, you can dial back your diatribes. This isn't happening, certainly not soon and probably not ever. "

"If you're in a "bad" school, its going to stay that way for quite a while, and if you're in a "good" school you've got nothing to fear, for years if at all."

Some of the diatribes are by those in the bad school group. And the last few posts indicate at least some of us would simply like to see MCPS consider how to woo back the families already in the red zone.

Folks, you can dial back your diatribes. This isn't happening, certainly not soon and probably not ever. The MCPS press release makes clear that the school system isn't nearly as charged up about this idea as some members of the County Council are. And Starr and Board of Ed President Phil Kauffmann deftly attempted to shift the burden of fixing this problem to the County Council folks. To wit:

"Dr. Starr and Mr. Kauffman both highlighted with the council on Monday that the county’s housing and transportation policy also has a significant impact on the economic and racial integration of the county’s schools. For example, the White Flint sector plan includes 9,800 new housing units over the next few decades but only includes 980 new units of workforce housing. This area feeds the Walter Johnson cluster of schools.

“'We believe that housing, transportation and education policy should all work together to ensure that we have vibrant, thriving integrated schools and communities,' said Dr. Starr. 'All three areas have to work together to achieve our vision for an integrated community that reflects the rich diversity of the county.'”

The press release went on to say:

"Dr. Starr did speak about a study included in the Fiscal Year 2015 operating budget to examine choice programs in MCPS. This comprehensive study will take a close look at how well choice programs such as magnet schools, immersion programs and the downcounty and northeast consortia are serving the needs of our students and leveraging the educational benefits of the rich diversity of the community. The study could consider the effect of boundaries on how these programs serve students. In addition to numerous discussions across the MCPS community, the study will engage thought leaders and experts and include three parts:

"· Gathering and analyzing data on all the various choice and application programs and options in MCPS;
· Benchmarking best practices in other districts; and
· Engaging the community and stakeholders to get their opinions"

Translation: They are slow-walking any talk of major boundary changes, and are determined to mix-in other, more politically palatable approaches like magnet schools and "benchmarking" best practices.

If you're in a "bad" school, its going to stay that way for quite a while, and if you're in a "good" school you've got nothing to fear, for years if at all.

Here is the full release:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=3569&type=current&startYear=&pageNumber=&mode=

It is dumb as dirt. I'm sure if you ask Starr he'll give you some buzz words or self-promoting response about hope or what have you to justify the silliness. I now understand why nobody even bothers to go to our local schools. There was even a suggestion that the system didn't want middle class families back because it would contribute to overcrowding. Seriously ridiculous stuff.

"They've actually made clear that they're not interested in attracting those families back. A couple of years ago at here was a pretty significant community movement in Silver Spring trying to get Starr to listen to what it would take to draw the middle class back, and the community was the subject of criticism for being too organized and not having the best interests of the children in mind. He delegated the issue to some cluster coordinators from Takoma Park, who were really worried that any changes in Silver Spring would adversely affect them. They silenced the voice of these communities that were desperately trying to figure out how to get the middle class back into the struggling local schools while optimizing educational options for all students,and Starr just signed off on their offensive and ridiculous assessment. I doubt he even read the report given that it was just silly to pretend the data supported the conclusions. Entirely laughable. That's the impression our community was left with and it's the reason I have zero respect for him. Long story short, even though in theory they should care, the administrative machine of MCPS is just a big political hot mess and there's very little you can do to bring about any change that's not being initiated from an insider of MCPS. They really don't care if middle class families are opting out."

Well that is just dumb as dirt. Why??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a red zone family I am happy MCPS admitted they do not have the guts to redistrict. This will avoid "studying" the option while those in wealthy school areas lobby ferociously to ensure it does not occur.

Can we now focus on what might actually be doable - making the red zone schools more attractive to the still many middle class families that live in that area? Has MCPS talked to them, including those that went private, to try to determine how to lure those currently living in the area and opting out back into their local school?

+1

I was horrified to find out that not a single child in my immediate neighborhood goes to the MCPS elementary school we are zoned for. Being attractive to UMC DC residents seems to be improving their schools (at least in the early elementary years). How to get me and my neighbors to send our current and future kids to the poor performing school seems to be the question.

They've actually made clear that they're not interested in attracting those families back. A couple of years ago at here was a pretty significant community movement in Silver Spring trying to get Starr to listen to what it would take to draw the middle class back, and the community was the subject of criticism for being too organized and not having the best interests of the children in mind. He delegated the issue to some cluster coordinators from Takoma Park, who were really worried that any changes in Silver Spring would adversely affect them. They silenced the voice of these communities that were desperately trying to figure out how to get the middle class back into the struggling local schools while optimizing educational options for all students,and Starr just signed off on their offensive and ridiculous assessment. I doubt he even read the report given that it was just silly to pretend the data supported the conclusions. Entirely laughable. That's the impression our community was left with and it's the reason I have zero respect for him. Long story short, even though in theory they should care, the administrative machine of MCPS is just a big political hot mess and there's very little you can do to bring about any change that's not being initiated from an insider of MCPS. They really don't care if middle class families are opting out.

"How to get me and my neighbors to send our current and future kids to the poor performing school seems to be the question."

Yes yes yes. It is not "how can we get Whitman kids to go east?" It is "how can we get eastern families that would be helpful influences on their local schools to WANT to send their kids there. This would help meat term but also longer term help to stem the flow of those families out of eastern MoCo once their kids get to a certain school age.

I agree with 22:21. Why is everyone hating on white folks??? I love going to Whitman!

22:21, go back under your bridge.

Signed,
A lawyer that has worked with poverty cases for a million years

These threads just become racist, elitists diatribes, and it sounds like the same trollish nut posting time and again.

22:15, you are making some good points. Unfortunately, too many in group 1 are making things really unpleasant and hard for groups 2 and 3.