Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 14:53     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This really pisses me off. I live in a crappy apartment in a good school district so that my kid can legitimately go there. I haven't read 10 pages of crap and justification, but even if you could get away with this I sure hope you don't. Do you think I wouldn't live more space in a difference part of town???? Of course I would!!! But I decided my kid's education is more important. People like you who want to have their cake and eat it too really get on my nerves. You overcrowd our schools and make our kids suffer because you think you are above the law. Screw you! I hope you get caught and go to jail.


you want to commute across town at rush hour twice a day, really? You made a good choice for your family - not a smaller house but less time in a car.


That was another huge consideration. I hate commuting and take public transportation so it wouldn't be feasible anyway, but I'd rather spend time at home with my kid.


You are either willfully or stupidly missing the PP's point. EVERYONE would rather have both a great school and a short commute. But those of us who play by the rules make trade offs to do it, like less space to be in a better school district. People like YOU think that you are somehow above playing by the rules and unapologetically strategize to have cake and eat it, i.e. have your bigger place and, just because you can afford it, rent a smaller tiny place that you have no intention of living in and then present that as your residence. I have had opportunities to cheat as well (more by knowing people at schools and being offered easy entry) and I have declined, and done things by the book. Mainly because I believe in karma, but also because I believe "live by the sword, die by the sword". If I cheat, then I can't be upset in the least if I or my kid gets cheated.

But people like you think a) you won't get caught, and b) your means justify your ends. Well, they don't. But you may well get away with it if you do this.

Then again... you may well NOT get away with it. I really really hope you get caught, because your matter of fact smugness about just doing it because you can warrants you going through all this trouble, hopefully spending a lot of money on it too, and then getting busted. I feel for your kid though... moral fortitude is clearly missing in some key ways from your family. Hopefully he/she/they can rise above your shortcomings.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 14:45     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

NP here, well hear what you want PP, but please be clear: under the current rules, if another parent or staff member at the school has enough information to show that the residence that the cheating parent used as their primary address is not in fact their primary address, there are MANY OF US (and the number grows greater the more the competition for seats increases) that have no problem raising a big stink with the school and with OSSE about it. Charter or DCPS, if a family clearly does not live at the residence they got their IB preference through, and we find out about it, we will make a very public outcry about it. And you DO risk your kid being kicked out.

Maybe the rules aren't as tight as they could be, but the parent such as OP or anyone else in this thread that used an address they don't live at and that clearly isn't their primary address to get IB preference KNOWS they are cheating. You can be as wiggly and "Oh but the rules aren't totally clear" as you want; just know that at the schools where anyone bothers to do this, parents and staff are getting increasingly vigilant and outspoken about calling out cheaters. You don't hear about some of them here because once a family has been outed and has to leave (whether immediately or by the end of the school year), it usually happens pretty quietly at that stage. But it DOES happen.

You know you're cheating, and if you're at a popular school, the odds are increasing that you'll get called out. And for the schools that want to pursue it, they have ways of proving that a residence is not the student's primary residence.


Sure, now please explain how parents and staff could effectively "out" a cheater when a parent has already met DCPS' requirements for providing residency, and enrolling a child at a school, by providing a pay stub showing DC withholding, and some combination of a valid lease, DC ID, and a utilities bill in a parent's name.

I believe that parents and staff might be able to persuade DCPS higher-ups to launch an investigation in the hopes of outing a cheater, but to my knowledge it's up to Central Administration to "call out" cheaters, and up to principals to kick them out after getting the green light from higher ups. The process takes months, no immediately involved, and no big stink or public outcry able to determine outcomes.

A neighbor was investigated by DCPS for alleged cheating (at Maury Elementary on the Hill) last year. I'm told that the investigation took 5 minutes - the investigator met the parents at the home, saw the kid's toys and clothes in her room, left, wrote a brief report attesting to the validity of the residency, end of story.

The "primary address" requirement is made up - there's no such legal term, or designation used in DCPS residency speak.


I'm sure you would like me to explain how a parent can be outed. I'm sure all the cheaters on DCUM would love a roadmap to how a school could prove it, just so they could try to work around it. Which is exactly why there's no way I'm explaining how it's been done in the cases I know. And I don't care if you believe me or not. The only thing I care about is that anyone who considers this understands that if they do not reside at this home - if this is not where their kid goes home to a majority of nights in a week - they run the risk of being kicked out.

Actually, I don't believe there's any way someone who does this does NOT understand it. If it was allowed, they wouldn't be lying about it, they'd just tell the school "Hey, this is where we live, but we rent here so use this addy so we can be IB". No one is dumb enough to admit that, because they know it's not allowed. They just think they will not be caught, and there's a whole lot of tears and outrage and "I didn't know!" when they are caught. Cry me a freakin' river. You knew because if you didn't know, you wouldn't have had any reason to lie.

Not gonna explain how residency can be proven. Feel free to roll the dice of dishonesty (or, as many on this thread want to see it, "unclear guidelines") and cheat to get your kid into a school as IB when you know your kid doesn't live IB. Then hope you don't know any of the parents or staff I'm talking about, because if you do, your bubble will be burst and your kid will be the one who pays for it by unceremoniously being kicked out of the school. And that will be no one's fault but YOURS.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 14:36     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
WOW PP....just WOW.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 14:25     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:



NP here, well hear what you want PP, but please be clear: under the current rules, if another parent or staff member at the school has enough information to show that the residence that the cheating parent used as their primary address is not in fact their primary address, there are MANY OF US (and the number grows greater the more the competition for seats increases) that have no problem raising a big stink with the school and with OSSE about it. Charter or DCPS, if a family clearly does not live at the residence they got their IB preference through, and we find out about it, we will make a very public outcry about it. And you DO risk your kid being kicked out.

Maybe the rules aren't as tight as they could be, but the parent such as OP or anyone else in this thread that used an address they don't live at and that clearly isn't their primary address to get IB preference KNOWS they are cheating. You can be as wiggly and "Oh but the rules aren't totally clear" as you want; just know that at the schools where anyone bothers to do this, parents and staff are getting increasingly vigilant and outspoken about calling out cheaters. You don't hear about some of them here because once a family has been outed and has to leave (whether immediately or by the end of the school year), it usually happens pretty quietly at that stage. But it DOES happen.

You know you're cheating, and if you're at a popular school, the odds are increasing that you'll get called out. And for the schools that want to pursue it, they have ways of proving that a residence is not the student's primary residence.


Sure, now please explain how parents and staff could effectively "out" a cheater when a parent has already met DCPS' requirements for providing residency, and enrolling a child at a school, by providing a pay stub showing DC withholding, and some combination of a valid lease, DC ID, and a utilities bill in a parent's name.

I believe that parents and staff might be able to persuade DCPS higher-ups to launch an investigation in the hopes of outing a cheater, but to my knowledge it's up to Central Administration to "call out" cheaters, and up to principals to kick them out after getting the green light from higher ups. The process takes months, no immediately involved, and no big stink or public outcry able to determine outcomes.

A neighbor was investigated by DCPS for alleged cheating (at Maury Elementary on the Hill) last year. I'm told that the investigation took 5 minutes - the investigator met the parents at the home, saw the kid's toys and clothes in her room, left, wrote a brief report attesting to the validity of the residency, end of story.

The "primary address" requirement is made up - there's no such legal term, or designation used in DCPS residency speak.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 10:45     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This really pisses me off. I live in a crappy apartment in a good school district so that my kid can legitimately go there. I haven't read 10 pages of crap and justification, but even if you could get away with this I sure hope you don't. Do you think I wouldn't live more space in a difference part of town???? Of course I would!!! But I decided my kid's education is more important. People like you who want to have their cake and eat it too really get on my nerves. You overcrowd our schools and make our kids suffer because you think you are above the law. Screw you! I hope you get caught and go to jail.


you want to commute across town at rush hour twice a day, really? You made a good choice for your family - not a smaller house but less time in a car.


That was another huge consideration. I hate commuting and take public transportation so it wouldn't be feasible anyway, but I'd rather spend time at home with my kid.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 10:41     Subject: Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary


Twelve pages into the thread not one person has provided a cite to any sort of relevant regulation.

It's like this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/legal-dream-team-of-coworkers-counsel-woman-on-str,36424/


I think this might be the applicable DCMR (DM Municipal Regulation):

http://www.dcregs.dc.gov/Gateway/RuleHome.aspx?RuleNumber=5-E2002

(then click on view text)

It basically says that students attend the school in attendance zone where "the applicant resides" (Section 2002.1) . Supplying false information can result in a fine of up to $500 plus referral for potential prosecution (Section 2000.12). So the question is what does it mean to reside, is paying rent enough.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 10:41     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
PP above me. I couldn't agree with you more.

Besides, it will be a really lonely life for OP and her kid. I can't imagine never having a playdate or a birthday part just so you can hide the fact that you are cheating (and you know you are).
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 09:56     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: Ha. No, that's not what you're hearing. You're hearing from people who bought or rented a primary residence in boundary for a good school and didn't have to cheat the system to do it.

I hear entitlement: "My kid deserves to go to whatever school I decide, and I get to live
wherever I want, too! The rules are for other suckers."


Parents who own more than one DC residence also bought or rented a "principal residence" (that's the legal term, not primary residence) in-boundary for a good school and didn't have to cheat the system to do it. I still hear jealousy. Some of us put up with a lot to own properties before gentrification really kicked in.

What I hear is that the rules, as currently written, say your kid deserves to go to school wherever you own or rent a house and pay all relevant federal and DC taxes. Sounds like you should be lobbying to tighten up the rules, not ranting about having others jailed and fined.



NP here, well hear what you want PP, but please be clear: under the current rules, if another parent or staff member at the school has enough information to show that the residence that the cheating parent used as their primary address is not in fact their primary address, there are MANY OF US (and the number grows greater the more the competition for seats increases) that have no problem raising a big stink with the school and with OSSE about it. Charter or DCPS, if a family clearly does not live at the residence they got their IB preference through, and we find out about it, we will make a very public outcry about it. And you DO risk your kid being kicked out.

Maybe the rules aren't as tight as they could be, but the parent such as OP or anyone else in this thread that used an address they don't live at and that clearly isn't their primary address to get IB preference KNOWS they are cheating. You can be as wiggly and "Oh but the rules aren't totally clear" as you want; just know that at the schools where anyone bothers to do this, parents and staff are getting increasingly vigilant and outspoken about calling out cheaters. You don't hear about some of them here because once a family has been outed and has to leave (whether immediately or by the end of the school year), it usually happens pretty quietly at that stage. But it DOES happen.

You know you're cheating, and if you're at a popular school, the odds are increasing that you'll get called out. And for the schools that want to pursue it, they have ways of proving that a residence is not the student's primary residence.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2014 09:19     Subject: Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:My goodness some people are slow in this thread.

I understand why many people "feel" this "should" be wrong, but again, your feelings are irrelevant.

Before tossing out words like "fraud" you need to identify the rules. Show me where DCPS or OSSE or whoever you like require parents to designate a certain residence as their IB location and what criteria should be used in making that determination. If you can't, then what exactly is the basis for your opinion?

In theory, a DCPS school should be able to serve every RESIDENCE in that area, whether a kid actually lives there or not. OP is not renting a PO Box and claiming it as her home. If she chooses to maintain two houses, either of which she could live in, then what exactly is the policy basis for forcing her to choose one as her "official" residence.

The point of these requirements is more to prevent people from listing a friend or relative's address when they have no real claim to live there. If someone chooses to pay for a residence, then they get the benefit of the bargain. This is not rocket science.

Call it a loophole if you will, but if DCPS really thought this was an issue they could easily address it.


Twelve pages into the thread not one person has provided a cite to any sort of relevant regulation.

It's like this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/legal-dream-team-of-coworkers-counsel-woman-on-str,36424/
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2014 22:36     Subject: Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:My goodness some people are slow in this thread.

I understand why many people "feel" this "should" be wrong, but again, your feelings are irrelevant.

Before tossing out words like "fraud" you need to identify the rules. Show me where DCPS or OSSE or whoever you like require parents to designate a certain residence as their IB location and what criteria should be used in making that determination. If you can't, then what exactly is the basis for your opinion?

In theory, a DCPS school should be able to serve every RESIDENCE in that area, whether a kid actually lives there or not. OP is not renting a PO Box and claiming it as her home. If she chooses to maintain two houses, either of which she could live in, then what exactly is the policy basis for forcing her to choose one as her "official" residence.

The point of these requirements is more to prevent people from listing a friend or relative's address when they have no real claim to live there. If someone chooses to pay for a residence, then they get the benefit of the bargain. This is not rocket science.

Call it a loophole if you will, but if DCPS really thought this was an issue they could easily address it.


People cheat starting in preschool, when slots are lottery-based. In many schools, this "loophole" (scam) would take a slot away from a child who actually lives in bounds.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2014 22:31     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: Ha. No, that's not what you're hearing. You're hearing from people who bought or rented a primary residence in boundary for a good school and didn't have to cheat the system to do it.

I hear entitlement: "My kid deserves to go to whatever school I decide, and I get to live
wherever I want, too! The rules are for other suckers."


Parents who own more than one DC residence also bought or rented a "principal residence" (that's the legal term, not primary residence) in-boundary for a good school and didn't have to cheat the system to do it. I still hear jealousy. Some of us put up with a lot to own properties before gentrification really kicked in.

What I hear is that the rules, as currently written, say your kid deserves to go to school wherever you own or rent a house and pay all relevant federal and DC taxes. Sounds like you should be lobbying to tighten up the rules, not ranting about having others jailed and fined.



I am not a PP who advocated jails or fines.

Are you trying to argue that you live in all these places equally such that they are all your "principal residence"? That sounds exhausting, so no, I'm not jealous of juggling households.

I suspect, however, you are being disingenuous and you're pretending like your cheap apartment in boundary for wherever you attend school is just as much your "principal residence" as the house where you actually live.

You might get away with it, but that doesn't make it right.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2014 22:12     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:This really pisses me off. I live in a crappy apartment in a good school district so that my kid can legitimately go there. I haven't read 10 pages of crap and justification, but even if you could get away with this I sure hope you don't. Do you think I wouldn't live more space in a difference part of town???? Of course I would!!! But I decided my kid's education is more important. People like you who want to have their cake and eat it too really get on my nerves. You overcrowd our schools and make our kids suffer because you think you are above the law. Screw you! I hope you get caught and go to jail.


you want to commute across town at rush hour twice a day, really? You made a good choice for your family - not a smaller house but less time in a car.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2014 22:12     Subject: Re:Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:This really pisses me off. I live in a crappy apartment in a good school district so that my kid can legitimately go there. I haven't read 10 pages of crap and justification, but even if you could get away with this I sure hope you don't. Do you think I wouldn't live more space in a difference part of town???? Of course I would!!! But I decided my kid's education is more important. People like you who want to have their cake and eat it too really get on my nerves. You overcrowd our schools and make our kids suffer because you think you are above the law. Screw you! I hope you get caught and go to jail.


But you are free to live in a different part of town and enjoy more space. You just need to keep paying rent for your current location too. Why not just do that?
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2014 22:09     Subject: Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
My goodness some people are slow in this thread.

I understand why many people "feel" this "should" be wrong, but again, your feelings are irrelevant.

Before tossing out words like "fraud" you need to identify the rules. Show me where DCPS or OSSE or whoever you like require parents to designate a certain residence as their IB location and what criteria should be used in making that determination. If you can't, then what exactly is the basis for your opinion?

In theory, a DCPS school should be able to serve every RESIDENCE in that area, whether a kid actually lives there or not. OP is not renting a PO Box and claiming it as her home. If she chooses to maintain two houses, either of which she could live in, then what exactly is the policy basis for forcing her to choose one as her "official" residence.

The point of these requirements is more to prevent people from listing a friend or relative's address when they have no real claim to live there. If someone chooses to pay for a residence, then they get the benefit of the bargain. This is not rocket science.

Call it a loophole if you will, but if DCPS really thought this was an issue they could easily address it.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2014 21:53     Subject: Rent a 2nd place in a better boundary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't mean to rain on the law breaking parade, but it seems odd that no one has yet to identify the law (or regulation, to the extent someone thinks there is a difference) that is being broken.

DCPS requires you to verify residency. It's a simple process. You show a lease and a utility bill. Where is this idea that you have to meet some other standards coming from? I've not been able to find anything that says you must actually live in that place for X number of days per year.

To the contrary, it seems like DCPS doesn't care if you maintain one, two, or three residences as long as one meets the verification criteria. I'm sorry to go all lawyer on this, but just because you keep asserting something is illegal doesn't make it so.

Maybe DCPS does have detailed regulations laying out a ten-part test used to assess primary residency...but someone needs to cite to it before I can take any of these liar/cheater claims seriously.


I would like to point out that residency is governed by OSSE not DCPS. Both DCPS and DCPCSB report to OSSE. Feel free to go to the OSSE for further details.


I would like to point out that this point is pointless. There are one set of requirements. Feel free to check, however.