Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First, I apologize to real DCUMers because I'm apparently entertaining a troll. Second, I ask not of this particular troll but of all abortion -related morons out there: Where were you for Relisha? What are you doing for the next Relisha?

Who is Relisha and what does she have to do with justifying killing babies? What are you doing for the next Relisha since you know so much about her? Or is "just kill 'em all" your motto.

I would be a troll if I was responding because I thought it was funny. This is not funny and it is nothing to troll about.

If you don't know who Relisha is you can get the fuck off this board, since if you don't you are clearly not a DC urban mom.

So what you are saying is that you lack the ability to have an intellectual conversation, and that you really cannot connect this girl you brought up to the subject at hand.

Therefore you are just throwing things at the wall, and hoping something sticks so that you don't have to address your bloodthirsty tendencies and lack of regard for innocent humans being slaughtered.

Anonymous wrote:

NP. And please tell us how you feel about the baby-killing bitches like me who have terminated ectopic pregnancies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro-life troll, please answer. Do you feel the same way about the baby killing bitches doing IVF?

NP. And please tell us how you feel about the baby-killing bitches like me who have terminated ectopic pregnancies.

Another pro-life poster. Aborting an ectopic pregnancy is nothing like aborting a normal healthy pregnancy. Do you honestly believe that pro-lifers would view it the same way?

Yes. Or is it "justifiable murder?" Either you're taking a life, or you're not. Or you're saying it's ok to take a life when x or y happens, but not z. You hypocrites.

The embryo in an ectopic pregnancy has NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL. Do you really think pro-lifers are that stupid?

Er, yes they are. Plenty of pro-lifers want ectopic pregnancies to take their natural course. The health of the mother is of no consequence.

Liar. You're full of shit. I don't believe you have ever heard a pro-life person anywhere say that.

Yes, there are a number of pro-life people who believe that abortion should be prohibited under all circumstances, even ectopic pregnancy. I've included links in case you want to see for yourself. From the website of American Right to Life:

"Abortion has so hardened the heart of the medical community that no thought is given to the unborn child who is growing outside of the uterus. While government and medical industry websites claim that the baby cannot survive ectopic pregnancy, in truth, hundreds of such babies are reported as surviving abdominal, ovarian, and tubal ectopic pregnancies. For the documentation of these babies wonderful survival, see the impeccably referenced meta study: Ectopic Personhood, by Bill Fortenberry. In situ and even by transplant to the uterus (as documented below), the ectopic child often can survive. In so many cases though, the child will die and so might the mother unless a physician intervenes. Those who desire to justify abortion claim that such a complication proves their point because proper medical treatment for an ectopic pregnancy requires the intentional killing of the embryo. As demonstrated extensively by a number of medical studies, by Fortenberry, and uniquely, below, this is not true. But consider their motivation and the form of their argument." http://americanrtl.org/life-of-the-mother-exception

From Bill Fortenberry's article on the Personhood Initiative website:

"As we can see, ectopic pregnancies are not necessarily fatal for either the mother or the child. The mother’s survival is almost certain, and the survival of the child is at least possible if not probable. Dr. Koop was correct. The personhood of the unborn child does not conflict with the need to protect the life of the mother for the simple reason that abortion is never necessary for that protection. There are other solutions available. More than one obstetrician has recommended that women with ectopic pregnancies should be placed under the constant vigil of a well equipped hospital until their children have developed enough to be delivered alive rather than sacrificed unnecessarily.[34] Ectopic pregnancies can be survived, and we can prohibit all abortions without any exceptions." http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.html

I'm the original ectopic pregnancy poster, and all I can say to that is WOW. I wonder at what point these people would have suggested a doctor transfer my abnormally-developing embryo from my Fallopian tube to my uterus during my first ectopic pregnancy. When I was hemorrhaging during my emergency laparotomy? I suppose with my second ectopic that a transfer of that abnormally-developing embryo should have been performed, and I should have spent the next 7.5 months in the hospital "under constant vigil", unable to take care of my toddler or work to support out family. That sounds like a recipe for success all around.

I am the PP who posted the info from American Right to Life and Fortenberry. I imagine those people would vilify me as a baby killer too, since I had to end a very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. I was induced, was in labor all day, and delivered a baby girl who could not survive the delivery. She was born sleeping and the hospital chaplain baptized her for us. I suppose I could have stayed in the hospital for weeks, been pumped with IV antibiotics, risking my life and my future fertility, only to deliver a baby with minimal chance of a healthy outcome. I can't think of any ethical doctor who practices science-based medicine who would agree to such an approach. And like the PP with the ectopic pregnancies, I wouldn't have been able to care for my 5 year old son or work to support my family (of course this is irrelevant to Fortenberry and his ilk). Together with my husband and my medical team, we made the only rational choice. It was heartbreaking and it was the darkest day of my life. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But it have never regretted it. I have always been pro-choice, but after this traumatizing experience, I am even more staunchly pro-choice. I wonder if any of these irrational, extremist anti-choice people (I can't even call them pro-life) have ever personally faced a crisis pregnancy. It's not black-and white. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes pregnancies can go horribly wrong. How they are resolved should be up to the woman, her family, her medical team, and her spiritual advisor if she chooses to consult one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First, I apologize to real DCUMers because I'm apparently entertaining a troll. Second, I ask not of this particular troll but of all abortion -related morons out there: Where were you for Relisha? What are you doing for the next Relisha?

Who is Relisha and what does she have to do with justifying killing babies? What are you doing for the next Relisha since you know so much about her? Or is "just kill 'em all" your motto.

I would be a troll if I was responding because I thought it was funny. This is not funny and it is nothing to troll about.

If you don't know who Relisha is you can get the fuck off this board, since if you don't you are clearly not a DC urban mom.

So what you are saying is that you lack the ability to have an intellectual conversation, and that you really cannot connect this girl you brought up to the subject at hand.

Therefore you are just throwing things at the wall, and hoping something sticks so that you don't have to address your bloodthirsty tendencies and lack of regard for innocent humans being slaughtered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disgusting. I would not support the murder of a baby.

We sit silently while innocent children are slaughtered and then wonder why people have no respect for human life when someone beats up an old person or runs over a child and keeps driving.

Stop patting yourself on the back OP. You are a terrible friend and a sorry excuse for a human being.

When I see a post like this, I feel many emotions. Mostly I'm just thankful I'm not so stupid and closed minded. Good luck with your future, weirdo child-like person who thinks life is black and white.

Yes, I am closed-minded to the idea of killing babies.

A society that has no respect for the most innocent of lives is a very dangerous society.

+1000

So do you also condemn those who do IVF?

Pro-life poster, why do you keep avoiding this question? Did you yourself murder babies as part of the cost of getting the family you thought you deserved?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First, I apologize to real DCUMers because I'm apparently entertaining a troll. Second, I ask not of this particular troll but of all abortion -related morons out there: Where were you for Relisha? What are you doing for the next Relisha?

Who is Relisha and what does she have to do with justifying killing babies? What are you doing for the next Relisha since you know so much about her? Or is "just kill 'em all" your motto.

I would be a troll if I was responding because I thought it was funny. This is not funny and it is nothing to troll about.

If you don't know who Relisha is you can get the fuck off this board, since if you don't you are clearly not a DC urban mom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today my friend who had an abortion says she wished her "support" person had made some effort to talk her out of it. There were other options.

She and a lot of people. Her voice won't drown out the extreme voices on either side. These women suffer silently and when she talks about it, it will be taboo. Her pro life friends will drown her with crap about Jesus and her pro choice friends will trivialize her feelings. Those with good professional experience like some OBs can understand. The pain is immense and she will never stop thinking about her child, her little friend, who only she knew.
The extreme views make it hard for any logic to come into this. In the end there are women who are being hurt by a system that refuses to be intellectually honest. There IS post abortion stress, no different than PTSD. And for some women, that is not worth it, they would have rather struggled with the child than live through that. And these are NOT religious people, they are just humans with normal emotions.

OP here. This is the category my friend falls into. She has always considered herself pro-choice but didn't think she could ever have an abortion personally. Then she got pregnant at a very inopportune time in an exceedingly bad relationship and health situation, and she made the choice that would spare the child a lifetime of difficulty. It was heartbreaking for her, and I doubt she will ever forget about the little life that was inside of her. There was another young woman in the waiting room who was also there to have an abortion. She started chatting with me while my friend was in the back. She was perfectly upbeat and it was pretty clear that this was just like any other doctor's appointment for her, she was just bummed that her boyfriend couldn't get off work so they could go to Five Guys after. There seems to be a huge range of feelings women have about this procedure. It doesn't do anyone any favors to diminish or hyperbolize the degree to which something like this can weigh on a person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro-life troll, please answer. Do you feel the same way about the baby killing bitches doing IVF?

NP. And please tell us how you feel about the baby-killing bitches like me who have terminated ectopic pregnancies.

Another pro-life poster. Aborting an ectopic pregnancy is nothing like aborting a normal healthy pregnancy. Do you honestly believe that pro-lifers would view it the same way?

Yes. Or is it "justifiable murder?" Either you're taking a life, or you're not. Or you're saying it's ok to take a life when x or y happens, but not z. You hypocrites.

The embryo in an ectopic pregnancy has NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL. Do you really think pro-lifers are that stupid?

Er, yes they are. Plenty of pro-lifers want ectopic pregnancies to take their natural course. The health of the mother is of no consequence.

Liar. You're full of shit. I don't believe you have ever heard a pro-life person anywhere say that.

Yes, there are a number of pro-life people who believe that abortion should be prohibited under all circumstances, even ectopic pregnancy. I've included links in case you want to see for yourself. From the website of American Right to Life:

"Abortion has so hardened the heart of the medical community that no thought is given to the unborn child who is growing outside of the uterus. While government and medical industry websites claim that the baby cannot survive ectopic pregnancy, in truth, hundreds of such babies are reported as surviving abdominal, ovarian, and tubal ectopic pregnancies. For the documentation of these babies wonderful survival, see the impeccably referenced meta study: Ectopic Personhood, by Bill Fortenberry. In situ and even by transplant to the uterus (as documented below), the ectopic child often can survive. In so many cases though, the child will die and so might the mother unless a physician intervenes. Those who desire to justify abortion claim that such a complication proves their point because proper medical treatment for an ectopic pregnancy requires the intentional killing of the embryo. As demonstrated extensively by a number of medical studies, by Fortenberry, and uniquely, below, this is not true. But consider their motivation and the form of their argument." http://americanrtl.org/life-of-the-mother-exception

From Bill Fortenberry's article on the Personhood Initiative website:

"As we can see, ectopic pregnancies are not necessarily fatal for either the mother or the child. The mother’s survival is almost certain, and the survival of the child is at least possible if not probable. Dr. Koop was correct. The personhood of the unborn child does not conflict with the need to protect the life of the mother for the simple reason that abortion is never necessary for that protection. There are other solutions available. More than one obstetrician has recommended that women with ectopic pregnancies should be placed under the constant vigil of a well equipped hospital until their children have developed enough to be delivered alive rather than sacrificed unnecessarily.[34] Ectopic pregnancies can be survived, and we can prohibit all abortions without any exceptions." http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.html

I'm the original ectopic pregnancy poster, and all I can say to that is WOW. I wonder at what point these people would have suggested a doctor transfer my abnormally-developing embryo from my Fallopian tube to my uterus during my first ectopic pregnancy. When I was hemorrhaging during my emergency laparotomy? I suppose with my second ectopic that a transfer of that abnormally-developing embryo should have been performed, and I should have spent the next 7.5 months in the hospital "under constant vigil", unable to take care of my toddler or work to support out family. That sounds like a recipe for success all around.

I am the PP who posted the info from American Right to Life and Fortenberry. I imagine those people would vilify me as a baby killer too, since I had to end a very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. I was induced, was in labor all day, and delivered a baby girl who could not survive the delivery. She was born sleeping and the hospital chaplain baptized her for us. I suppose I could have stayed in the hospital for weeks, been pumped with IV antibiotics, risking my life and my future fertility, only to deliver a baby with minimal chance of a healthy outcome. I can't think of any ethical doctor who practices science-based medicine who would agree to such an approach. And like the PP with the ectopic pregnancies, I wouldn't have been able to care for my 5 year old son or work to support my family (of course this is irrelevant to Fortenberry and his ilk). Together with my husband and my medical team, we made the only rational choice. It was heartbreaking and it was the darkest day of my life. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But it have never regretted it. I have always been pro-choice, but after this traumatizing experience, I am even more staunchly pro-choice. I wonder if any of these irrational, extremist anti-choice people (I can't even call them pro-life) have ever personally faced a crisis pregnancy. It's not black-and white. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes pregnancies can go horribly wrong. How they are resolved should be up to the woman, her family, her medical team, and her spiritual advisor if she chooses to consult one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to chime on on the "WHY DID SHE NOT JUST CHOOSE ADOPTION?" issue.

I had an abortion last year after my birth control failed (I was using it correctly, before you ask). I considered all my options. I considered continuing the pregnancy and raising the child, but financially, it would have been next to impossible. I considered continuing the pregnancy and putting the child up for adoption, but my assessment was that that would have been confusing and difficult for my daughter. Ultimately, I decided to terminate the pregnancy.

I wanted to say that specifically with regard to the adoption issue, it is not as easy as "just have the baby and put the baby up for adoption". My daughter is 4. She would have had a really hard time understanding why I was pregnant and then she didn't get a younger sibling. Pregnancy is also a physical event for the woman in question. It is not always easy, and those physical issues have ramifications on family life. When I was pregnant with DD, I was exhausted all the time for about 28 weeks. After she was born, it took me several weeks to recover physically from birth. I am trying to speak purely to the physical aspects that affect other people than me, because all to often I hear women who do not want to experience pregnancy and birth condemned as selfish for that desire.

Financially, a $400 abortion was cheaper than the $700 deductible I would have needed to pay to have the baby, or the numerous $20 office visit copays, or the rhogam shots, or anything else. If that had been the only issue, I would have figured out a way to make it work, but it wasn't.

I have observed that sometimes adoptive families think it's as easy as just deciding not to abort and then living life as usual for the next however many months. I had a relatively easy pregnancy the first time, but it was not without consequence to my life at that time either.

That's depressing. You had an abortion because it was about $500 cheaper than the abortion? Why not get your tubes tied if you absolutely can't stand the physical part of the pregnancy? I just can't understand why intelligent, educated women who do not want to get pregnant do in fact get pregnant.

Anonymous wrote:I am very much pro choice but I too would like to find ways to encourage more women to consider putting their babies up for adoption.

At this point, I think we need to 1) limit the time a birth mother can change her mind-maybe 3 days instead of 3 months and 2) just call a spade a spade and pay the birth mother and not pretend its just "expenses"-.... If 1000 white infants were available tomorrow for adoption, I know every single one would be adopted in a day or so. Same for AA infants...but a lot of folks don't allow for interacial adoptions. The whole systems is excruciating and painful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro-life troll, please answer. Do you feel the same way about the baby killing bitches doing IVF?

NP. And please tell us how you feel about the baby-killing bitches like me who have terminated ectopic pregnancies.

Another pro-life poster. Aborting an ectopic pregnancy is nothing like aborting a normal healthy pregnancy. Do you honestly believe that pro-lifers would view it the same way?

Yes. Or is it "justifiable murder?" Either you're taking a life, or you're not. Or you're saying it's ok to take a life when x or y happens, but not z. You hypocrites.

The embryo in an ectopic pregnancy has NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL. Do you really think pro-lifers are that stupid?

Er, yes they are. Plenty of pro-lifers want ectopic pregnancies to take their natural course. The health of the mother is of no consequence.

Liar. You're full of shit. I don't believe you have ever heard a pro-life person anywhere say that.

Yes, there are a number of pro-life people who believe that abortion should be prohibited under all circumstances, even ectopic pregnancy. I've included links in case you want to see for yourself. From the website of American Right to Life:

"Abortion has so hardened the heart of the medical community that no thought is given to the unborn child who is growing outside of the uterus. While government and medical industry websites claim that the baby cannot survive ectopic pregnancy, in truth, hundreds of such babies are reported as surviving abdominal, ovarian, and tubal ectopic pregnancies. For the documentation of these babies wonderful survival, see the impeccably referenced meta study: Ectopic Personhood, by Bill Fortenberry. In situ and even by transplant to the uterus (as documented below), the ectopic child often can survive. In so many cases though, the child will die and so might the mother unless a physician intervenes. Those who desire to justify abortion claim that such a complication proves their point because proper medical treatment for an ectopic pregnancy requires the intentional killing of the embryo. As demonstrated extensively by a number of medical studies, by Fortenberry, and uniquely, below, this is not true. But consider their motivation and the form of their argument." http://americanrtl.org/life-of-the-mother-exception

From Bill Fortenberry's article on the Personhood Initiative website:

"As we can see, ectopic pregnancies are not necessarily fatal for either the mother or the child. The mother’s survival is almost certain, and the survival of the child is at least possible if not probable. Dr. Koop was correct. The personhood of the unborn child does not conflict with the need to protect the life of the mother for the simple reason that abortion is never necessary for that protection. There are other solutions available. More than one obstetrician has recommended that women with ectopic pregnancies should be placed under the constant vigil of a well equipped hospital until their children have developed enough to be delivered alive rather than sacrificed unnecessarily.[34] Ectopic pregnancies can be survived, and we can prohibit all abortions without any exceptions." http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.html

I'm the original ectopic pregnancy poster, and all I can say to that is WOW. I wonder at what point these people would have suggested a doctor transfer my abnormally-developing embryo from my Fallopian tube to my uterus during my first ectopic pregnancy. When I was hemorrhaging during my emergency laparotomy? I suppose with my second ectopic that a transfer of that abnormally-developing embryo should have been performed, and I should have spent the next 7.5 months in the hospital "under constant vigil", unable to take care of my toddler or work to support out family. That sounds like a recipe for success all around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today my friend who had an abortion says she wished her "support" person had made some effort to talk her out of it. There were other options.

She and a lot of people. Her voice won't drown out the extreme voices on either side. These women suffer silently and when she talks about it, it will be taboo. Her pro life friends will drown her with crap about Jesus and her pro choice friends will trivialize her feelings. Those with good professional experience like some OBs can understand. The pain is immense and she will never stop thinking about her child, her little friend, who only she knew.
The extreme views make it hard for any logic to come into this. In the end there are women who are being hurt by a system that refuses to be intellectually honest. There IS post abortion stress, no different than PTSD. And for some women, that is not worth it, they would have rather struggled with the child than live through that. And these are NOT religious people, they are just humans with normal emotions.

OP here. This is the category my friend falls into. She has always considered herself pro-choice but didn't think she could ever have an abortion personally. Then she got pregnant at a very inopportune time in an exceedingly bad relationship and health situation, and she made the choice that would spare the child a lifetime of difficulty. It was heartbreaking for her, and I doubt she will ever forget about the little life that was inside of her. There was another young woman in the waiting room who was also there to have an abortion. She started chatting with me while my friend was in the back. She was perfectly upbeat and it was pretty clear that this was just like any other doctor's appointment for her, she was just bummed that her boyfriend couldn't get off work so they could go to Five Guys after. There seems to be a huge range of feelings women have about this procedure. It doesn't do anyone any favors to diminish or hyperbolize the degree to which something like this can weigh on a person.

Why didn't she consider adoption?

Yeah. I am the 12:02 poster. Why DIDN'T she consider adoption? Why don't MORE women in this situation consider adoption? I am an adoptive mom of one, waiting on #2, and wonder this CONSTANTLY!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to chime on on the "WHY DID SHE NOT JUST CHOOSE ADOPTION?" issue.

I had an abortion last year after my birth control failed (I was using it correctly, before you ask). I considered all my options. I considered continuing the pregnancy and raising the child, but financially, it would have been next to impossible. I considered continuing the pregnancy and putting the child up for adoption, but my assessment was that that would have been confusing and difficult for my daughter. Ultimately, I decided to terminate the pregnancy.

I wanted to say that specifically with regard to the adoption issue, it is not as easy as "just have the baby and put the baby up for adoption". My daughter is 4. She would have had a really hard time understanding why I was pregnant and then she didn't get a younger sibling. Pregnancy is also a physical event for the woman in question. It is not always easy, and those physical issues have ramifications on family life. When I was pregnant with DD, I was exhausted all the time for about 28 weeks. After she was born, it took me several weeks to recover physically from birth. I am trying to speak purely to the physical aspects that affect other people than me, because all to often I hear women who do not want to experience pregnancy and birth condemned as selfish for that desire.

Financially, a $400 abortion was cheaper than the $700 deductible I would have needed to pay to have the baby, or the numerous $20 office visit copays, or the rhogam shots, or anything else. If that had been the only issue, I would have figured out a way to make it work, but it wasn't.

I have observed that sometimes adoptive families think it's as easy as just deciding not to abort and then living life as usual for the next however many months. I had a relatively easy pregnancy the first time, but it was not without consequence to my life at that time either.

That's depressing. You had an abortion because it was about $500 cheaper than the abortion? Why not get your tubes tied if you absolutely can't stand the physical part of the pregnancy? I just can't understand why intelligent, educated women who do not want to get pregnant do in fact get pregnant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to chime on on the "WHY DID SHE NOT JUST CHOOSE ADOPTION?" issue.

I had an abortion last year after my birth control failed (I was using it correctly, before you ask). I considered all my options. I considered continuing the pregnancy and raising the child, but financially, it would have been next to impossible. I considered continuing the pregnancy and putting the child up for adoption, but my assessment was that that would have been confusing and difficult for my daughter. Ultimately, I decided to terminate the pregnancy.

I wanted to say that specifically with regard to the adoption issue, it is not as easy as "just have the baby and put the baby up for adoption". My daughter is 4. She would have had a really hard time understanding why I was pregnant and then she didn't get a younger sibling. Pregnancy is also a physical event for the woman in question. It is not always easy, and those physical issues have ramifications on family life. When I was pregnant with DD, I was exhausted all the time for about 28 weeks. After she was born, it took me several weeks to recover physically from birth. I am trying to speak purely to the physical aspects that affect other people than me, because all to often I hear women who do not want to experience pregnancy and birth condemned as selfish for that desire.

Financially, a $400 abortion was cheaper than the $700 deductible I would have needed to pay to have the baby, or the numerous $20 office visit copays, or the rhogam shots, or anything else. If that had been the only issue, I would have figured out a way to make it work, but it wasn't.

I have observed that sometimes adoptive families think it's as easy as just deciding not to abort and then living life as usual for the next however many months. I had a relatively easy pregnancy the first time, but it was not without consequence to my life at that time either.

That's depressing. You had an abortion because it was about $500 cheaper than the abortion? Why not get your tubes tied if you absolutely can't stand the physical part of the pregnancy? I just can't understand why intelligent, educated women who do not want to get pregnant do in fact get pregnant.