Anonymous
02/23/2014 21:39
Subject: Re:Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just watched She's Having a Baby with the actress who plays Cora. Weird to see her in the earlier role and think of her current character.
If you really want a trip, watch Ordinary People where she played a teenager!
Or "The Handmaid's Tale" where she plays a rebellious girl turned prostitute. Great movie/book.
Anonymous
02/23/2014 15:25
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One thing that does bother me a little is that the American characters are always portrayed as loud and brash. Well, except for Cora. Stereotype much?
They are loud and brash. Cora was sent to the Continent to exchange family money for marriage to a peer. Clearly Martha Levinson is into the London social scene as she wants to return for Rose's debut. If the Levinsons are Jewish, as their name might suggest, this may have been an attempt to drop their Jewish roots. This was not uncommon at the time. Look at Madeliene Albright, for example
In contrast, Madeline Albright's family history and her discovery of her Jewish heritage has nothing to do with social climbing at all. Her grandparents and many members of her extended family were Holocaust victims. It was in the wake of their being placed in concentration camps that her parents converted to Catholicism. (She later became an Episcopalian when she married.)
Yes, people trying to distance themselves from their Jewish names just change their names outright. Just ask Allen Konigsberg, Jerome Silberman, and Natalie Hershlag. Otherwise known as Woody Allen, Gene Wilder, and Natalie Portman.
Anonymous
02/23/2014 13:10
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One thing that does bother me a little is that the American characters are always portrayed as loud and brash. Well, except for Cora. Stereotype much?
They are loud and brash. Cora was sent to the Continent to exchange family money for marriage to a peer. Clearly Martha Levinson is into the London social scene as she wants to return for Rose's debut. If the Levinsons are Jewish, as their name might suggest, this may have been an attempt to drop their Jewish roots. This was not uncommon at the time. Look at Madeliene Albright, for example
I do think Martha is drawn a little broadly. Yes, we know Cora was a bucaneer and that Martha clearly enjoys having ties to England and the upper crust. At the same time, she enjoys lampooning British reserve while singing the praises of American informality and egalitarianism. (Sometimes literally singing -- remember, how she insisted on livening up the dinner that Cora and Robert gave in her honor by serenading Violet with "Let Me Call You, Sweetheart"?). That said, though, there's no reason for her to be so gauche, and it actually makes the story a little weaker since it's hard to imagine how she was able to pass muster with the British elite and snag Robert for Cora.
In contrast, Madeline Albright's family history and her discovery of her Jewish heritage has nothing to do with social climbing at all. Her grandparents and many members of her extended family were Holocaust victims. It was in the wake of their being placed in concentration camps that her parents converted to Catholicism. (She later became an Episcopalian when she married.)
Anonymous
02/23/2014 13:07
Subject: Re:Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Just watched She's Having a Baby with the actress who plays Cora. Weird to see her in the earlier role and think of her current character.
If you really want a trip, watch Ordinary People where she played a teenager!
Anonymous
02/23/2014 13:01
Subject: Re:Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Just watched She's Having a Baby with the actress who plays Cora. Weird to see her in the earlier role and think of her current character.
Anonymous
02/23/2014 10:03
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:One thing that does bother me a little is that the American characters are always portrayed as loud and brash. Well, except for Cora. Stereotype much?
They are loud and brash. Cora was sent to the Continent to exchange family money for marriage to a peer. Clearly Martha Levinson is into the London social scene as she wants to return for Rose's debut. If the Levinsons are Jewish, as their name might suggest, this may have been an attempt to drop their Jewish roots. This was not uncommon at the time. Look at Madeliene Albright, for example
Anonymous
02/23/2014 09:33
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:One thing that does bother me a little is that the American characters are always portrayed as loud and brash. Well, except for Cora. Stereotype much?
Well....
Anonymous
02/23/2014 08:45
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:One thing that does bother me a little is that the American characters are always portrayed as loud and brash. Well, except for Cora. Stereotype much?
Yes! Shirley McLaine is so annoying. The American upper crust could be just as snobby as the Brits.
Anonymous
02/22/2014 22:10
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
One thing that does bother me a little is that the American characters are always portrayed as loud and brash. Well, except for Cora. Stereotype much?
Anonymous
02/22/2014 07:31
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:When the black musician showed up they showed some housemaids peeking into the room and giggling. So I guess we are supposed to assume they are there. Myabe they are day workers?
I noticed some doormen this season and other servants on the main floor. Funny hadn't seen any additional staff during previous seasons.
Anonymous
02/22/2014 07:06
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
When the black musician showed up they showed some housemaids peeking into the room and giggling. So I guess we are supposed to assume they are there. Myabe they are day workers?
Anonymous
02/22/2014 07:00
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The Cora's brother thing is kind of weird. Like was there a reason behind it all??
This is some thread that is just left hanging, out there, so there has got to be some tie-in, somehow. Maybe the Americans will descend on the estate because they have been bankrupt (but didn't the situation work out ok and that's why Lord Grantham returned?)
As of now, I don't know why they made a big deal out of the trip to America. It only advanced one story line and that is getting Thomas suspicious about why he got to go to America instead of Bates. That was a lot of footage/airtime just to further that and really unnecessary because Thomas could have been suspicious anyways--lord knows Anna was acting so weirdly. So I think there must be some other reason --some surprise--that comes out of that American trip story line that we don't know about.
Maybe they just bring some American stars on for the finale.
Anonymous
02/21/2014 23:20
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anna was the maid for all the daughters before Mary got married.
Whatever happened to the Abbey having actual maid staff? All of the downstairs characters are fairly elite service staff (butler, housekeeper, ladies' maids, valets, footmen, etc.) - what about the people who wash the dishes and do the laundry and empty the chamber pots and clean the fireplaces? In Season 1, Daisy was a "house maid" and had tasks like that (and wasn't allowed in rooms at the same time as upstairs residents), but then she got promoted to the kitchen and we haven't seen real service staff since.
There's background staff, but you just don't get to meet them. Look closely, you'll see under-maids, hall boys, etc.
At dinner, the lower servants don't get to have their dinner at the same time as the upper servants.
Also -- Thomas has been referring to layoffs, etc. Domestic servant numbers were declining steadily from the pre-war period through the 20s and 30s, what with all the labor-saving devices, the financial crises hitting the great houses, and competent domestic staff starting to work in the factories, etc. Of course the Depression will put a stake through the heart of most great houses.
Even though this is true, the Downton staff is bloated and doesn't show housemaids etc. and in the past everyone took their meals at the same time. The writers just weren't thinking logistically.
Thank you 15:24! I brought this point up before on a previous DA thread. It just really bugs me. I know the real DA is in incredible disrepair as are many historical houses like it b/c cost wise it's incredibly expensive to keep up. Maid service and household repairs definitely went by the wayside as time marched on, but no way in reality would you have 2 or 3 staff just to serve dinner and not have a scullery maid or two!
Repeat after me: it's a TV show.
I read an interview with Julian Fellowews where he indicated that they are very aware that they aren't showing the full number of staff that would be at a house the size of Downtown. But it's just not logistically possible to have that many actors inthe time allowed, plus it makes it just too complicated for viewers to keep up with.
+1
It's not a documentary, for crying out loud. I think they do a wonderful job of keeping things as historically accurate as possible while still telling a fictional tale.