Similarly, test prep for the AAP entrance exam by obtaining "the exact form of the test" by any means will severely impact the ability to measure the intelligence out of the test. Just like me throwing the football in a hurricane. I can not know how far I threw the ball, and the county can not know how much of the score was from intelligence, and how much is from prepping. (and how much was from ADD, distractions, puppies, etc). What the county is trying to measure is raw capability, not work ethic. They get that in the GBRS. And a high score on the CogAT does not make your kid smarted. It will not lead to more money. How will the county deal with this? The will ignore test scores. They will have no choice. Oh, and the county is the source on appropriate behavior in a county administered exam.

No you don't get it. Since you are so fascinated with the older Manning child, let me give an analogy using Peyton.

We want to know how far Peyton can throw the ball....How far the ball goes will be a function of the throw and the wind. If he throws 50 times in a closed stadium, the results will be meaningful. In a Hurricane, he may be able to throw the ball 100 yards down wind, or 10 yard up wind. In the storm, I could throw the ball 80 yards down wind. But inside, Peyton can throw the ball 60 years. That does not make me the better QB. The wind adds noise to the measurement. It reflects the reliability of the measurement.

Similarly, test prep for the AAP entrance exam by obtaining "the exact form of the test" by any means will severely impact the ability to measure the intelligence out of the test. Just like me throwing the football in a hurricane. I can not know how far I threw the ball, and the county can not know how much of the score was from intelligence, and how much is from prepping. (and how much was from ADD, distractions, puppies, etc). What the county is trying to measure is raw capability, not work ethic. They get that in the GBRS. And a high score on the CogAT does not make your kid smarted. It will not lead to more money. How will the county deal with this? The will ignore test scores. They will have no choice. Oh, and the county is the source on appropriate behavior in a county administered exam.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But it should be unnecessary for this particular test if your kids are smart enough.

Wow, you still don't get it. There are some who work hard and prepare not because they seek to be just smart enough to get by. It appears to you, if one is smart enough there is no reason to prep or study. Why study or prep if you are really intelligent and gifted?

You claim Peyton was born with unique gifts as an athlete and QB but he, too, wasn't dumb enough to take your advise, since he is supremely gifted and talented enough therefore hard work and prep is unnecessary

Your "smart enough" and "unnecessary prep" mantra is too low a bar for some individuals like Peyton, Phelps, brain surgeons and pilots. Just "good enough" and "prep unnecessary" doesn't quite hack it. It work in the kitchen but not in the OR, cockpit or Peyton's place. This has nothing to do with you infatuation with giftedness and the DNA of elite professionals but everything to do with attitude and frame of mind.

There are some for whom getting by on God given ability and giftedness is not the objective or aim. They work hard and prepare no matter how low the bar or which alphabet soup test of the day presents itself in a given year.

No you don't get it. Since you are so fascinated with the older Manning child, let me give an analogy using Peyton.

We want to know how far Peyton can throw the ball....How far the ball goes will be a function of the throw and the wind. If he throws 50 times in a closed stadium, the results will be meaningful. In a Hurricane, he may be able to throw the ball 100 yards down wind, or 10 yard up wind. In the storm, I could throw the ball 80 yards down wind. But inside, Peyton can throw the ball 60 years. That does not make me the better QB. The wind adds noise to the measurement. It reflects the reliability of the measurement.

Similarly, test prep for the AAP entrance exam by obtaining "the exact form of the test" by any means will severely impact the ability to measure the intelligence out of the test. Just like me throwing the football in a hurricane. I can not know how far I threw the ball, and the county can not know how much of the score was from intelligence, and how much is from prepping. (and how much was from ADD, distractions, puppies, etc). What the county is trying to measure is raw capability, not work ethic. They get that in the GBRS. And a high score on the CogAT does not make your kid smarted. It will not lead to more money. How will the county deal with this? The will ignore test scores. They will have no choice. Oh, and the county is the source on appropriate behavior in a county administered exam.

Anonymous wrote:

But it should be unnecessary for this particular test if your kids are smart enough.

Wow, you still don't get it. There are some who work hard and prepare not because they seek to be just smart enough to get by. It appears to you, if one is smart enough there is no reason to prep or study. Why study or prep if you are really intelligent and gifted?

You claim Peyton was born with unique gifts as an athlete and QB but he, too, wasn't dumb enough to take your advise, since he is supremely gifted and talented enough therefore hard work and prep is unnecessary

Your "smart enough" and "unnecessary prep" mantra is too low a bar for some individuals like Peyton, Phelps, brain surgeons and pilots. Just "good enough" and "prep unnecessary" doesn't quite hack it. It work in the kitchen but not in the OR, cockpit or Peyton's place. This has nothing to do with you infatuation with giftedness and the DNA of elite professionals but everything to do with attitude and frame of mind.

There are some for whom getting by on God given ability and giftedness is not the objective or aim. They work hard and prepare no matter how low the bar or which alphabet soup test of the day presents itself in a given year.

But it should be unnecessary for this particular test if your kids are smart enough.

Anonymous wrote:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

What does this bureaucratic gibberish have to do with children who prepare their educational foundation through systematic study? This is irrelevant to the discussion of children prepping for their studies and tests.

If kids stole Cogat exam papers (or SAT exam papers) then a potential crime was committed. FCPS should prosecute those concerned for theft in a court of law with due process. Studying and educational preparation is neither unethical nor a crime. Teachers, parents and their children have been doing so for decades. Please do not conflate stealing exam papers with children who are sky high academic performers who also are well schooled and prepped.

Anonymous wrote:

Defensive much? Or is it just that you have problems with reading comprehension?

It's fine to quiz and probe your child's intellect, experience or understanding. It's not cheating even if you read (or misread) it on the FCPS-AAP website.

If this makes you anxious or puts pressure on your or your children it's fine to desist and follow your natural inclinations.

It is not fine to impose your natural inclinations on others. I am fine with children or parents who like to read, study, play or sleep. These activities should not provoke such heightened anxiety and concern.


Nice defense of probing child's intellect, but what does this have to do with prepping specifically for AAP?

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

Defensive much? Or is it just that you have problems with reading comprehension?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, at least one has a misunderstanding about this, or simply pretends to misunderstand. No one suggests that anything is wrong with hard work and preparation.
People are suggesting that it is inappropriate for people to "prep" kids by using materials that attempt to recreate the AAP identification tests. Prepping kids in this way makes the scores unreliable to the point that some schools are simply not using them anymore. These particular tests are not meant to be prepped for and prepping results in scores that are not useful to the schools.

These threads are only about prepping for the AAP identification tests. They are not about prepping for any other type of testing, nor are they about effective ways to teach math.

More nuaunced malarky. Now we have to have the identification committees throughout the land adjudicate the legality or ethics of preparation on the basis of an identification test. Will this be at the federal level or shall will let each state do their own thing?

What rubbish.

No rubbish, and no malarky. If you read the the OP for most of these threads, they involve the AAP identification testing. Not even terribly nuanced, just fact.

Right, and here's what FCPS says about this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

Anonymous wrote:

I wouldn't classify the majority of 7-year-olds as serious students, as much as many parents in this area seem to want to opt out of childhood for their kids.

Nor does FCPS wait till the night before for the prep it authorizes. The teachers show kids what the test creators recommend they see beforehand -- sample problems to give them an idea of what to expect. They're not supposed to need any other advanced preparation.

Academic prep and discipline in children is about learning. It has nothing to do with AAP. Why do you think families that value education and spend valuable time with their children in this endeavor at an early age are necessarily preparing for AAP. These families could give a hoot about the low AAP bar or what is needed for that particular test. There is no need to steal test questions for this or any test.
For these families their engagement in education is far deeper than AAP or what is needed for the test or a goon night's sleep followed by ham and eggs.

For folk like Phelps and Peyton (with all their superlative gifts you are drooling over) their preparation, discipline and hard work is not about their work ethic and habits...that they will crush their opponent is immaterial. They are simply wired to prep and work hard...plain and simple. That their approach to life. One doesn't have to invoke stealing the other team's play book and cheating to explain why some children and their families work hard and prep. You don't have to join them. There is free choice.