Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 22:41     Subject: Re:DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OK, I've been running the numbers as an impartial third party (my field of expertise is school finance -- no children in any language immersion school). It seems that Oyster Adams receives $11,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. LAMB receives $20,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. Using the DC PCSB budget data, it seems that LAMB spends $3,638 on rent, depreciation, interest, utilities etc). Accounting for these extra expenses that DCPS schools do not bear, LAMB still has a per pupil allocation of $16,753.


Keep subtracting, you still aren't at an apples to apples comparison. Go back and look at all of the other things missing from the Oyster budget sheet like school lunches and everything else. Plus, I really don't think "discretionary spending" on the Oyster sheet is what you think it is, since it's just 2.7% of the budget. For example, I seriously doubt it actually does cover textbooks as claimed - and I likewise remember reading that DCPS central office manages the textbooks and many other things that would not be included in the Oyster budget.


Yes, PLEASE keep subtracting until you reach a number that puts Oyster’s per pupil funding below the immersion charters’ funding. I will NOT be satisfied until I can show that Oyster’s higher tests scores are due entirely to student funding (or its location, or its admissions policy, or its age, or…). That can be the only explanation damn it! Lol!


There's a lot of obfuscation and underreporting going on at DCPS, overall it's closer to $30,000 being spent per student in DCPS schools: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-mcshane/dc-public-schools-grossly_b_1638663.html - There's a lot more going to schools like Oyster than what the budget figure shows. Either that, or there is nearly $20,000 per student just completely vanishing into a black hole at DCPS central office. Per outside sources there's far more money going into DCPS schools. And before anyone makes any accusations about the accuracy or reliability of those sources of information, those spending numbers are also reflected in official Census Bureau statistics http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/10f33pub.pdf


For the love of God, why can’t you seem to grasp the fact that the $30-$35k amount is the AVERAGE amount, per pupil, spent across DCPS? You do understand what average means, right? DCPS has to educate special needs students, and they tend to ship the more serious cases off to very expensive private schools that can cost upwards of $40 or $50k. That amount RAISES the average amount spent per pupil. Got it?
It has already been proven that Oyster receives less money than LAMB, but its students perform much better on the CAS. I know that it pains you greatly to face this fact, but please try to come to grips with the truth. As someone mentioned above, you should be happy that DCPS has schools like Oyster that are actually delivering value for money. Why aren’t you happy that Oyster is doing well? Please direct your criticism towards schools that are far more deserving (i.e., Wilson).


For the love of God, when will you understand that it's not so much about Oyster as it is about comparing charters to DCPS schools.

And, for the love of God, when will you understand that the Oyster budget link that was provided does not include many big-ticket items, like facilities.

But if instead you want to stick to your guns and pretend that's the real cost for a DCPS school like Oyster, then given the average DCPS spending of kids of $30,000 that means that if you look at the math, then for every student that only costs DCPS $11,000, you'd to have other students elsewhere in the DCPS system that cost $50,000 or more in order to arrive at an average of $30,000 per student, which really does not help in the "DCPS vs. Charter" debate.

I'm sure you could pick any DCPS school out there and yet won't see any of them showing the real spending number of $30,000 per student, again it's hidden through underreporting and obfuscation - and pretending that those budget numbers are real isn't going to change the reality of it all.


You are truly a lost cause. Maybe you can get someone over at the Washington Post to investigate your conspiracy theories. Better yet, tell it to your therapist.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 22:24     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:Banneker is for Blacks and SWW is for whites. Did anyone notice that Eastern has the second highest test scores for the comprehensive schools. Wilson is number one but they have triple the tenth grade population in comparison to Eastern. Eastern came on strong and looks good on paper and that's nothing to sneeze at.


Wow, I didn't know that. Your loss if you think that way. I am Banneker's biggest fan. The administration is amazing! Banneker has a very high FARMS rate. Just think how smart the kids are and good those teachers are. Those kids are really going places. I love it!
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 21:53     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
From the U.S. Census Bureau's
Public Education Finances: 2011

"Revenue comparisons can also be misleading since pro-
grams funded by a local government in one state may be
funded by the state or federal government in another."

I'm betting that the extremely large difference between PPE in DC and the rest of the states is at least in part due to the district's unique position of being considered a district but also having to take on many of the responsibilities traditionally handled by states.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 18:49     Subject: Re:DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OK, I've been running the numbers as an impartial third party (my field of expertise is school finance -- no children in any language immersion school). It seems that Oyster Adams receives $11,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. LAMB receives $20,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. Using the DC PCSB budget data, it seems that LAMB spends $3,638 on rent, depreciation, interest, utilities etc). Accounting for these extra expenses that DCPS schools do not bear, LAMB still has a per pupil allocation of $16,753.


Keep subtracting, you still aren't at an apples to apples comparison. Go back and look at all of the other things missing from the Oyster budget sheet like school lunches and everything else. Plus, I really don't think "discretionary spending" on the Oyster sheet is what you think it is, since it's just 2.7% of the budget. For example, I seriously doubt it actually does cover textbooks as claimed - and I likewise remember reading that DCPS central office manages the textbooks and many other things that would not be included in the Oyster budget.


Yes, PLEASE keep subtracting until you reach a number that puts Oyster’s per pupil funding below the immersion charters’ funding. I will NOT be satisfied until I can show that Oyster’s higher tests scores are due entirely to student funding (or its location, or its admissions policy, or its age, or…). That can be the only explanation damn it! Lol!


There's a lot of obfuscation and underreporting going on at DCPS, overall it's closer to $30,000 being spent per student in DCPS schools: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-mcshane/dc-public-schools-grossly_b_1638663.html - There's a lot more going to schools like Oyster than what the budget figure shows. Either that, or there is nearly $20,000 per student just completely vanishing into a black hole at DCPS central office. Per outside sources there's far more money going into DCPS schools. And before anyone makes any accusations about the accuracy or reliability of those sources of information, those spending numbers are also reflected in official Census Bureau statistics http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/10f33pub.pdf


For the love of God, why can’t you seem to grasp the fact that the $30-$35k amount is the AVERAGE amount, per pupil, spent across DCPS? You do understand what average means, right? DCPS has to educate special needs students, and they tend to ship the more serious cases off to very expensive private schools that can cost upwards of $40 or $50k. That amount RAISES the average amount spent per pupil. Got it?
It has already been proven that Oyster receives less money than LAMB, but its students perform much better on the CAS. I know that it pains you greatly to face this fact, but please try to come to grips with the truth. As someone mentioned above, you should be happy that DCPS has schools like Oyster that are actually delivering value for money. Why aren’t you happy that Oyster is doing well? Please direct your criticism towards schools that are far more deserving (i.e., Wilson).


For the love of God, when will you understand that it's not so much about Oyster as it is about comparing charters to DCPS schools.

And, for the love of God, when will you understand that the Oyster budget link that was provided does not include many big-ticket items, like facilities.

But if instead you want to stick to your guns and pretend that's the real cost for a DCPS school like Oyster, then given the average DCPS spending of kids of $30,000 that means that if you look at the math, then for every student that only costs DCPS $11,000, you'd to have other students elsewhere in the DCPS system that cost $50,000 or more in order to arrive at an average of $30,000 per student, which really does not help in the "DCPS vs. Charter" debate.

I'm sure you could pick any DCPS school out there and yet won't see any of them showing the real spending number of $30,000 per student, again it's hidden through underreporting and obfuscation - and pretending that those budget numbers are real isn't going to change the reality of it all.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 18:36     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:Room for improvement yes, but those score are good and show that things are improving. I've been listening/reading the debate about funding between the schools, and while it seems that Oyster receives a little less than Lamb per student, does it make for the huge gap in SES? By right, Oyster should be doing better with a higher SES, but their year over year change didn't move. Lamb's on the other hand grew at an 8% clip. Could it be the 5K extra? Maybe. Both schools have different approaches to education so its probably not an apples to apples comparison.


You do realize that FARMs students make up 29% of Oyster’s student body, right? LAMB is 31% FARMS (Yu Ying is 20% FARMS). If that is a huge gap in SES, then the $5k more, per pupil, that LAMB receives over Oyster is a huge gap in funding (well, actually it is…). While I will grant you that Oyster’s wealthy families are most likely far wealthier than the more well-off families at most of the charters, I don’t think the score gap is completely due to that fact. For example, Murch is in Chevy Chase and has far fewer FARMs students (9%) and ELL than Oyster, but its test scores are lower (80.8% combined reading/math score). Why is that? Although there are many theories, no one has figured out exactly what the special sauce is over at Oyster. However, we do know that the teachers/students/families (not that principal though) are doing something right. And yes, there is still room for improvement at Oyster.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 17:48     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
Room for improvement yes, but those score are good and show that things are improving. I've been listening/reading the debate about funding between the schools, and while it seems that Oyster receives a little less than Lamb per student, does it make for the huge gap in SES? By right, Oyster should be doing better with a higher SES, but their year over year change didn't move. Lamb's on the other hand grew at an 8% clip. Could it be the 5K extra? Maybe. Both schools have different approaches to education so its probably not an apples to apples comparison.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 17:16     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the point of this "who spends more (or less) per student is?

Oyster and LAMB both have respectable scores on the DC CAS not that if matters to me since we did not get into either.


The point was that charters and DCPS schools were being compared on their CAS results as though all else was equal, yet DCPS receives far more money to spend per student than any charter does.

The other bogus comparison was in looking at an established DCPS school that's been around for over 40 years as compared to charter that's just opened its doors.

OF COURSE Oyster should have respectable scores. But some perspective is needed when stacking schools up relative to each other. All other factors are not always equal.



The point was that charters and DCPS schools were being compared on their CAS results as though all else was equal, yet DCPS receives far more money to spend per student than any charter does.

Have we not put this lie to bed yet? It has already been shown that Oyster receives LESS money than LAMB (about $5k less per pupil, after accounting for mortgage/rent).

The other bogus comparison was in looking at an established DCPS school that's been around for over 40 years as compared to charter that's just opened its doors.

Yes, Oyster has been bilingual for 40 years, but LAMB has been bilingual for 10 years. I don’t think that a decade qualifies as “just opened its doors.” If you don’t know what you’re doing after a decade, you don’t need to educate anyone’s child.

OF COURSE Oyster should have respectable scores. But some perspective is needed when stacking schools up relative to each other. All other factors are not always equal.

Let’s just be honest folks: Oyster’s scores (82.9% reading/math average) are good, but not excellent. However, LAMB’s scores are just ok (73.8%). Oyster and all of the immersion schools discussed here are doing fine with the population they serve; however, there is always room for improvement.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 17:10     Subject: Re:DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OK, I've been running the numbers as an impartial third party (my field of expertise is school finance -- no children in any language immersion school). It seems that Oyster Adams receives $11,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. LAMB receives $20,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. Using the DC PCSB budget data, it seems that LAMB spends $3,638 on rent, depreciation, interest, utilities etc). Accounting for these extra expenses that DCPS schools do not bear, LAMB still has a per pupil allocation of $16,753.


Keep subtracting, you still aren't at an apples to apples comparison. Go back and look at all of the other things missing from the Oyster budget sheet like school lunches and everything else. Plus, I really don't think "discretionary spending" on the Oyster sheet is what you think it is, since it's just 2.7% of the budget. For example, I seriously doubt it actually does cover textbooks as claimed - and I likewise remember reading that DCPS central office manages the textbooks and many other things that would not be included in the Oyster budget.


Yes, PLEASE keep subtracting until you reach a number that puts Oyster’s per pupil funding below the immersion charters’ funding. I will NOT be satisfied until I can show that Oyster’s higher tests scores are due entirely to student funding (or its location, or its admissions policy, or its age, or…). That can be the only explanation damn it! Lol!


There's a lot of obfuscation and underreporting going on at DCPS, overall it's closer to $30,000 being spent per student in DCPS schools: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-mcshane/dc-public-schools-grossly_b_1638663.html - There's a lot more going to schools like Oyster than what the budget figure shows. Either that, or there is nearly $20,000 per student just completely vanishing into a black hole at DCPS central office. Per outside sources there's far more money going into DCPS schools. And before anyone makes any accusations about the accuracy or reliability of those sources of information, those spending numbers are also reflected in official Census Bureau statistics http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/10f33pub.pdf


For the love of God, why can’t you seem to grasp the fact that the $30-$35k amount is the AVERAGE amount, per pupil, spent across DCPS? You do understand what average means, right? DCPS has to educate special needs students, and they tend to ship the more serious cases off to very expensive private schools that can cost upwards of $40 or $50k. That amount RAISES the average amount spent per pupil. Got it?
It has already been proven that Oyster receives less money than LAMB, but its students perform much better on the CAS. I know that it pains you greatly to face this fact, but please try to come to grips with the truth. As someone mentioned above, you should be happy that DCPS has schools like Oyster that are actually delivering value for money. Why aren’t you happy that Oyster is doing well? Please direct your criticism towards schools that are far more deserving (i.e., Wilson).
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 16:48     Subject: Re:DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If the link above was already addressed, why don’t you seem to comprehend it? It’s clear: Oyster spent $11,391 per pupil. The staffing figure includes custodial services/salaries which is a facilities expenditure. There is also $500,000 allocated for “Specialty Funds,” and $209,291 set aside for “Non Personnel Services.” How do you know that $709,291 isn’t used to pay for textbooks, facilities or “anything else”? Oh, that’s right, you don’t know. You’re just grasping at straws and trying to belittle Oyster’s success…a popular pastime on DCUM. You have no evidence to prove that DCPS is spending “almost twice as much per student” on Oyster as compared to other charters. I have facts and figures. All you have is your worthless opinion. As far as I’m concerned, Oyster spends less per pupil to educate its students than immersion charters (11K vs. 19k), and with better results. If you have links showing that more than $11,391 per pupil is spent at Oyster, then post them. Until then, please be quiet and have a seat.
Btw, there is no stability in DCPS funding either.


Charter schools have to pay rent &/or mortgages. Dumbass.


OK, I've been running the numbers as an impartial third party (my field of expertise is school finance -- no children in any language immersion school). It seems that Oyster Adams receives $11,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. LAMB receives $20,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. Using the DC PCSB budget data, it seems that LAMB spends $3,638 on rent, depreciation, interest, utilities etc). Accounting for these extra expenses that DCPS schools do not bear, LAMB still has a per pupil allocation of $16,753.


Keep subtracting, you still aren't at an apples to apples comparison. Go back and look at all of the other things missing from the Oyster budget sheet like school lunches and everything else. Plus, I really don't think "discretionary spending" on the Oyster sheet is what you think it is, since it's just 2.7% of the budget. For example, I seriously doubt it actually does cover textbooks as claimed - and I likewise remember reading that DCPS central office manages the textbooks and many other things that would not be included in the Oyster budget.


If you look at the Oyster budget I specifically linked to you will see a breakdown of the school's discretionary spending (i.e. $20,796 for classroom supplies, $12,000 for office supplies, $10,000 for custodial supplies, $800 for school health supplies, $40,000 for computers etc. etc. etc.). With regard to your issue about the managing the textbooks, once upon a time DCPS had a centralized warehouse where they kept the books. They were distributed by the central office but the cost of the books were charged to the schools. If you look at the breakdown of the non-personnel funding you will see there is a budget line for textbooks. Finally, the LAMB budget stipulates that they spend $171,000 on food purchases. That adds $650 per pupil to their expenses.

Like I said earlier, my kids aren't in any kind of language program so I have no agenda. However, there is so much misinformation passing for truth that I wanted to get the actual numbers out there. In this instance, the numbers stipulate that LAMB is amply funded.



Thank you! A voice of reason that actually uses (*gasp*) facts to support her/his position.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 16:45     Subject: Re:DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:OK, I've been running the numbers as an impartial third party (my field of expertise is school finance -- no children in any language immersion school). It seems that Oyster Adams receives $11,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. LAMB receives $20,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. Using the DC PCSB budget data, it seems that LAMB spends $3,638 on rent, depreciation, interest, utilities etc). Accounting for these extra expenses that DCPS schools do not bear, LAMB still has a per pupil allocation of $16,753.


Keep subtracting, you still aren't at an apples to apples comparison. Go back and look at all of the other things missing from the Oyster budget sheet like school lunches and everything else. Plus, I really don't think "discretionary spending" on the Oyster sheet is what you think it is, since it's just 2.7% of the budget. For example, I seriously doubt it actually does cover textbooks as claimed - and I likewise remember reading that DCPS central office manages the textbooks and many other things that would not be included in the Oyster budget.


Yes, PLEASE keep subtracting until you reach a number that puts Oyster’s per pupil funding below the immersion charters’ funding. I will NOT be satisfied until I can show that Oyster’s higher tests scores are due entirely to student funding (or its location, or its admissions policy, or its age, or…). That can be the only explanation damn it! Lol!


There's a lot of obfuscation and underreporting going on at DCPS, overall it's closer to $30,000 being spent per student in DCPS schools: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-mcshane/dc-public-schools-grossly_b_1638663.html - There's a lot more going to schools like Oyster than what the budget figure shows. Either that, or there is nearly $20,000 per student just completely vanishing into a black hole at DCPS central office. Per outside sources there's far more money going into DCPS schools. And before anyone makes any accusations about the accuracy or reliability of those sources of information, those spending numbers are also reflected in official Census Bureau statistics http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/10f33pub.pdf
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 16:36     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:Looks like DCUM gained an Oyster booster. Welcome. Oyster is the bestest! Provides the greatest immersion education in DC using the least amount of money, their DC CAS is the highest of all the immersion schools in the area, feeds into Wilson (is this still a +?), Michelle Rhee sent her kids there (or this?), can give preferences to Spanish speakers, etc, etc.

Feel free to add more.

As someone who comes here mostly for entertainment value, this really boring.

Where's the YY troll or wordsalad?





Why the obsession with Oyster? It seems to be one of the dcps school that actually delivers value for the money. Where are the tough questions about the schools receiving much more money and resulting in much lower scores?
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 16:31     Subject: Re:DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If the link above was already addressed, why don’t you seem to comprehend it? It’s clear: Oyster spent $11,391 per pupil. The staffing figure includes custodial services/salaries which is a facilities expenditure. There is also $500,000 allocated for “Specialty Funds,” and $209,291 set aside for “Non Personnel Services.” How do you know that $709,291 isn’t used to pay for textbooks, facilities or “anything else”? Oh, that’s right, you don’t know. You’re just grasping at straws and trying to belittle Oyster’s success…a popular pastime on DCUM. You have no evidence to prove that DCPS is spending “almost twice as much per student” on Oyster as compared to other charters. I have facts and figures. All you have is your worthless opinion. As far as I’m concerned, Oyster spends less per pupil to educate its students than immersion charters (11K vs. 19k), and with better results. If you have links showing that more than $11,391 per pupil is spent at Oyster, then post them. Until then, please be quiet and have a seat.
Btw, there is no stability in DCPS funding either.


Charter schools have to pay rent &/or mortgages. Dumbass.


OK, I've been running the numbers as an impartial third party (my field of expertise is school finance -- no children in any language immersion school). It seems that Oyster Adams receives $11,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. LAMB receives $20,391 per pupil in combined federal and district allocations. Using the DC PCSB budget data, it seems that LAMB spends $3,638 on rent, depreciation, interest, utilities etc). Accounting for these extra expenses that DCPS schools do not bear, LAMB still has a per pupil allocation of $16,753.


Keep subtracting, you still aren't at an apples to apples comparison. Go back and look at all of the other things missing from the Oyster budget sheet like school lunches and everything else. Plus, I really don't think "discretionary spending" on the Oyster sheet is what you think it is, since it's just 2.7% of the budget. For example, I seriously doubt it actually does cover textbooks as claimed - and I likewise remember reading that DCPS central office manages the textbooks and many other things that would not be included in the Oyster budget.


If you look at the Oyster budget I specifically linked to you will see a breakdown of the school's discretionary spending (i.e. $20,796 for classroom supplies, $12,000 for office supplies, $10,000 for custodial supplies, $800 for school health supplies, $40,000 for computers etc. etc. etc.). With regard to your issue about the managing the textbooks, once upon a time DCPS had a centralized warehouse where they kept the books. They were distributed by the central office but the cost of the books were charged to the schools. If you look at the breakdown of the non-personnel funding you will see there is a budget line for textbooks. Finally, the LAMB budget stipulates that they spend $171,000 on food purchases. That adds $650 per pupil to their expenses.

Like I said earlier, my kids aren't in any kind of language program so I have no agenda. However, there is so much misinformation passing for truth that I wanted to get the actual numbers out there. In this instance, the numbers stipulate that LAMB is amply funded.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 16:05     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Looks like DCUM gained an Oyster booster. Welcome. Oyster is the bestest! Provides the greatest immersion education in DC using the least amount of money, their DC CAS is the highest of all the immersion schools in the area, feeds into Wilson (is this still a +?), Michelle Rhee sent her kids there (or this?), can give preferences to Spanish speakers, etc, etc.

Feel free to add more.

As someone who comes here mostly for entertainment value, this really boring.

Where's the YY troll or wordsalad?
/quote]

Your post is boring. If you expect to be entertained…you should at least be entertaining. Don’t quit your day job troll.


Yeah, I have no talent as a troll. Boring but I fit in nicely into this snoozefest of a thread. The only truly laughable thing are some of the scores. Need more coffee.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 15:59     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
Anonymous wrote:Looks like DCUM gained an Oyster booster. Welcome. Oyster is the bestest! Provides the greatest immersion education in DC using the least amount of money, their DC CAS is the highest of all the immersion schools in the area, feeds into Wilson (is this still a +?), Michelle Rhee sent her kids there (or this?), can give preferences to Spanish speakers, etc, etc.

Feel free to add more.

As someone who comes here mostly for entertainment value, this really boring.

Where's the YY troll or wordsalad?
/quote]

Your post is boring. If you expect to be entertained…you should at least be entertaining. Don’t quit your day job troll.
Anonymous
Post 08/02/2013 15:52     Subject: DC CAS popular schools summary
With Wilson, maybe it is the Hardy students that are bringing the scores down. They are mostly OOB, right? Wilson didn't accept OOB last year (rexcept sibling preference), so it can't be from that and Deal's scores are still good, so it has to be Hardy.