Anonymous wrote:ah, nothing like 9:32, speaking from the infinite wisdom of a sample of just one child.

9:32 here, I have two children. I also know about a dozen people who trained at the same age with same degree of readiness. I was also trained at 18 months, as were my siblings as was common then. I don't know anyone who tried before 2 who was unable to train their kid within a couple of weeks. How many kids do you have?

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Anonymous wrote:My 11 year old son potty trained in 3 days when he was 3 years and 2 months. He had a pacifier til he was 3. He was a daycare baby and I let him CIO. Despite lessons he didn't get the hang of swimming until he was 6 and he started reading in first grade. Shocking bad parenting right!

This year he had straight As and was in the most advanced 7th grade math placement. He went to a foreign country by himself for a week on a school exchange trip and was the top scorer on his basketball team. He does his own laundry and bikes to school with a friend. He gets invited to parties, is a total sweetheart to his sister, makes me laugh every day and will earn his black belt soon. I have no idea when his friends lofty trained. You moms of little ones are so funny. In five years you will wonder why you got so worked up over minutiae.

Exactly!

Hey, OP, how long did it take you to become the perfect mom? How old are YOUR children?

My boy and girl twins are 2.5. They are both fully trained. I clearly have a different experience and philosophy on potty training than my SIL and sought unfiltered opinions about the subject. I am not sure how this translates into a claim of perfection for you but okay. I make judgments all day long about any number of things as do you and every other member of the human race. This does not mean I believe myself to be perfect.

You've been a mom for 2.5 loooooong years? LOL!

ah, nothing like 9:32, speaking from the infinite wisdom of a sample of just one child.

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Anonymous wrote:Where are you finding these preschools that "REQUIRE" potting training by age 3? I'd like names please.

None of the top preschools in NW DC have this requirement. I went on all the tours this spring and my child will attend one this fall. She's trained but the schools were all (every last one) willing to work with 3 year olds who weren't trained.

ALL DC public schools, and ALL DC charter schools require training before admittance to preschool 3. My son was still two when he joined PS3 (late birthday). School starts in August and they must turn 3 before end of Sept. He was trained before he turned 2. ALL his classmates were potty trained with the exception of one special needs girl who wore a pull up for the first few months.

We live in the suburbs and none of the (private, 3-mornings-a-week type) preschools we toured have some stringent requirements. But I wouldn't send any of my dc to an all-day preschool unless I needed it for daycare. I don't see how the best child-centered preschool practices can really be replicated in a public elementary school.

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For example, these are the same kids who don't swim well until later because the parents freak them out about it, don't climb to the top of the jungle gym, are picky eaters, etc.

Are you saying that all fearful anxious kids are late potty trainers? I don't think that is true. Some kids just have anxious personalities. It isn't always the parents' fault.

I think generally it is the parents who foster anxiety and behavior that is behind most other children by seizing on it and encouraging it, instead of dealing with it in a way that allows the child to cope and overcome obstacles. I generally think late potty training is a parenting issue. I also think, based on my own observations of many parents after having 2 children, that other instances of children being fearful of trying things and moving to the next level, etc., are the result of parenting. Of course, I understand that come children are fearful/cautious while others are intrepid; however, I think that generally when a child shuts down repeatedly due to fear and cannot accomplish the things his/her peers do, it is the result of how the parents handle new situations. I am sure most people on this board will disagree and say that their child "just wasn't ready" to use a toilet until 3.5, or swim underwater until 5, etc. I am saying that I believe these instances are the result of parenting/nurture and not nature (expect in extreme circumstances like special needs). I understand that makes people defensive.

Oh my goodness. Well, DS potty trained just shy of 2, easily. He's extremely articulate and does a ton of things well, but he's not an adventurer. By your standards he's a victim of anxious parenting, because we don't force him, at 3.5 to put his face in the water (and I'm an all-American swimmer, full college scholarship, and lifeguard for years, and I didn't put MY face into the water until well after 5 years old, incidentally) nor do we push him hard into things that scare him (though we do gently encourage) I just think your post is laughable. It goes to show what snap judgments are good for. I'm not defensive at all. I really don't care what some person, who doesn't seem terribly bright, thinks about my kids or my parenting.

Your post does not change my opinion that the reason your child will not jump into the pool from the edge is because of something you are doing. Regardless of whether it's a bad thing or not, you should take responsibility. This is another area where kids start getting embarrassed around 3.5/4 when their peers can swim. 5 is ridiculous.

You don't seem to understand how little I care about your opinion on my parenting. With every post you seem more like a loon. I do think you're probably just trolling, as I find it hard to believe anyone would be so adamant about their idiotic opinions. Save it for someone who cares about what you have to say? (Guessing nobody in real life does...)

All I am saying is that parents should take responsibility. My child used a sippy cup at home until age 4, which I think is way too long. I fully acknowledge that it was because I allowed it, and not because she was not "showing signs of readiness" to give it up. She probably would have drunk from that thing on the couch happily until 4th grade. It was my job as her mother to throw it away. So, I take full responsibility. If someone else had been in charge, maybe she would have given it up at age 2. JUST LIKE IF I WERE IN CHARGE, YOUR KID WOULD BE POTTY TRAINED WELL BEFORE THREE. I am saying your kid is fine and was ready at 2. IT'S YOU, and YOUR DECISION to wait. If you feel ok about that, great. But STOP BLAMING IT ON YOUR KID.

Hey dumbass, my kid was potty trained at 22 months. Try to remember what you're sniping at people for. You're hating on me because my 3.5 year old can't swim yet.

LOL

Look, do whatever you want, but your kid can't swim yet because of decisions you are making, not anything to do with your kid. If swimming is not a priority, fine, but most kids can do it by 3 if someone takes the time to teach them--kinda like potty training.

Are you some kind of serious idiot? I'm the person you're quarreling with. I am absolutely certain you are either trolling or just an absolute moron, but as a person who was a swim instructor (of kids who couldn't swim, of all ages, plus adults who could not swim) WSI certified, and a lifeguard through high school and college, not to mention an all American swimmer, I want to make sure nobody is taking you seriously. I taught swim lessons for about a decade, first as part of a program and later, on my own. Any parent, ANY parent, who believes that their three year old can "swim" is deluding themselves and putting their child in serious danger. No child can reliably swim at that age, and many parents are given a false sense of security by swim lessons. I hope you're keeping your three year old "swimmer" within arm's reach at all times. Seriously.

Now, some children can become very confident in the water and will swim for some amount of time and learn some basic skills that help their survival, and some parents feel the need to push these on their children because yes, you "can" force it. But, why? Your child is no safer than mine. As someone who also teaches fearful adults to swim, I can tell you that many adults avoid the water because of exactly these early swimming lessons. They learn to associate fear with water when you dunk them and push them and make them do things they are not at all ready for. This is not AT ALL the same as early potty training, where you take advantage of a child's (generally, I'm not such an idiot to think this will work on 100 percent of kids) compliant nature at around or just before age 2, in order to foster an early habit. Just like I took my child to the pool nearly every day in summer and weekly in winter and worked on swimming skills and just getting comfortable being in and around water, which is a lifelong trait - not transient as these early and sometimes damaging swim "lessons" are where children are forced to perform things they're afraid of.

Anyway, not one person on these boards, not even the people who agree with you on early potty training, seems to agree with any thing you're saying. Your opinions are pretty much invalid and irrelevant, so this is not for you, but for any others reading.

Now, I hope you grow up.

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Anonymous wrote:^^ so at 3 years old, the saint we had for a preschool teacher taught them. Twins. Ouch.

Our daycare potty-trains and has been doing it since he was 14 months. And still nothing. They tell me he's ready and I concur. When it happens, it happens.

It happens when you get rid of the diapers. That's the problem, while the kids are still wearing diapers unless they are MUCH older they WILL NOT potty train. Get rid of the diapers and take a weekend off and your kid will be trained.

So happy that worked for you, but for others it HAS NOT worked. It was a tramatic experience for all involved. Maybe some endure the continuing stress and mess to prove they are tough or boss or whatever. Gold star for them, but others chose to listen to their kid who is clearly telling them they are not ready.

If you try before 2 and when the kid is showing physical signs (able to hold pee for a couple of hours or more) then it WILL work. If you leave it later you may have a problem. However, you still need to make sure that the child goes to the potty every couple of hours. That means regardless of whether they tell you they need to go, you take them, pull their pants down and put them on. After TWO days they WILL pee when put on the potty (IF you start early enough).

My son has been sitting on the potty every 1.5 hrs since 14 months old and while he sits on it happily, he still does nothing, and he's almost 3. That's quite a bit longer than two days. No, TWO days. I know it must be terribly difficult to believe that other children are different from yours, but do try.

What do you do when he's not sitting on the potty? Put him in diapers/pull ups? If you got rid of those diapers at 2 years old and followed him around the house naked for two days with a potty he would have got it. When he starts to pee, put him on the potty even if mid flow. Praise him heavily for even the smallest amount in the potty. At 2 he is trained, he's trained to pee in diapers, all you need to do is untrain him. Now, he's likely too old for that approach.

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Anonymous wrote:^^ so at 3 years old, the saint we had for a preschool teacher taught them. Twins. Ouch.

Our daycare potty-trains and has been doing it since he was 14 months. And still nothing. They tell me he's ready and I concur. When it happens, it happens.

It happens when you get rid of the diapers. That's the problem, while the kids are still wearing diapers unless they are MUCH older they WILL NOT potty train. Get rid of the diapers and take a weekend off and your kid will be trained.

So happy that worked for you, but for others it HAS NOT worked. It was a tramatic experience for all involved. Maybe some endure the continuing stress and mess to prove they are tough or boss or whatever. Gold star for them, but others chose to listen to their kid who is clearly telling them they are not ready.

If you try before 2 and when the kid is showing physical signs (able to hold pee for a couple of hours or more) then it WILL work. If you leave it later you may have a problem. However, you still need to make sure that the child goes to the potty every couple of hours. That means regardless of whether they tell you they need to go, you take them, pull their pants down and put them on. After TWO days they WILL pee when put on the potty (IF you start early enough).

My son has been sitting on the potty every 1.5 hrs since 14 months old and while he sits on it happily, he still does nothing, and he's almost 3. That's quite a bit longer than two days. No, TWO days. I know it must be terribly difficult to believe that other children are different from yours, but do try.

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Anonymous wrote:^^ so at 3 years old, the saint we had for a preschool teacher taught them. Twins. Ouch.

Our daycare potty-trains and has been doing it since he was 14 months. And still nothing. They tell me he's ready and I concur. When it happens, it happens.

It happens when you get rid of the diapers. That's the problem, while the kids are still wearing diapers unless they are MUCH older they WILL NOT potty train. Get rid of the diapers and take a weekend off and your kid will be trained.

So happy that worked for you, but for others it HAS NOT worked. It was a tramatic experience for all involved. Maybe some endure the continuing stress and mess to prove they are tough or boss or whatever. Gold star for them, but others chose to listen to their kid who is clearly telling them they are not ready.

If you try before 2 and when the kid is showing physical signs (able to hold pee for a couple of hours or more) then it WILL work. If you leave it later you may have a problem. However, you still need to make sure that the child goes to the potty every couple of hours. That means regardless of whether they tell you they need to go, you take them, pull their pants down and put them on. After TWO days they WILL pee when put on the potty (IF you start early enough).

OP, how old are your kids? If they are older than your niece and you are done with the potty-training stage, you could always offer to let your SIL borrow some of the potty training stuff that you used to train your kids. Even if you already threw it away and had to buy it new, you could act like you used it. I wouldn't see this as imposing, especially if you brought it up in a "hey, I was cleaning the basement and found DC's old potty....now that they are done with it, would you like me to bring it over for xxx" kind of way.

But if your kids are younger, I don't think you can say anything. You could play dumb and ask "what age does potty training usually start" like you are asking for parenting advice but it doesn't mean you will actually get anywhere.

Anonymous wrote:Where are you finding these preschools that "REQUIRE" potting training by age 3? I'd like names please.

None of the top preschools in NW DC have this requirement. I went on all the tours this spring and my child will attend one this fall. She's trained but the schools were all (every last one) willing to work with 3 year olds who weren't trained.

ALL DC public schools, and ALL DC charter schools require training before admittance to preschool 3. My son was still two when he joined PS3 (late birthday). School starts in August and they must turn 3 before end of Sept. He was trained before he turned 2. ALL his classmates were potty trained with the exception of one special needs girl who wore a pull up for the first few months.

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Anonymous wrote:My 11 year old son potty trained in 3 days when he was 3 years and 2 months. He had a pacifier til he was 3. He was a daycare baby and I let him CIO. Despite lessons he didn't get the hang of swimming until he was 6 and he started reading in first grade. Shocking bad parenting right!

This year he had straight As and was in the most advanced 7th grade math placement. He went to a foreign country by himself for a week on a school exchange trip and was the top scorer on his basketball team. He does his own laundry and bikes to school with a friend. He gets invited to parties, is a total sweetheart to his sister, makes me laugh every day and will earn his black belt soon. I have no idea when his friends lofty trained. You moms of little ones are so funny. In five years you will wonder why you got so worked up over minutiae.

Exactly!

Hey, OP, how long did it take you to become the perfect mom? How old are YOUR children?

My boy and girl twins are 2.5. They are both fully trained. I clearly have a different experience and philosophy on potty training than my SIL and sought unfiltered opinions about the subject. I am not sure how this translates into a claim of perfection for you but okay. I make judgments all day long about any number of things as do you and every other member of the human race. This does not mean I believe myself to be perfect.

Where are you finding these preschools that "REQUIRE" potting training by age 3? I'd like names please.

None of the top preschools in NW DC have this requirement. I went on all the tours this spring and my child will attend one this fall. She's trained but the schools were all (every last one) willing to work with 3 year olds who weren't trained.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ so at 3 years old, the saint we had for a preschool teacher taught them. Twins. Ouch.

Our daycare potty-trains and has been doing it since he was 14 months. And still nothing. They tell me he's ready and I concur. When it happens, it happens.

It happens when you get rid of the diapers. That's the problem, while the kids are still wearing diapers unless they are MUCH older they WILL NOT potty train. Get rid of the diapers and take a weekend off and your kid will be trained.

So happy that worked for you, but for others it HAS NOT worked. It was a tramatic experience for all involved. Maybe some endure the continuing stress and mess to prove they are tough or boss or whatever. Gold star for them, but others chose to listen to their kid who is clearly telling them they are not ready.

All parents who talk about waiting until their kid has shown "signs of readiness" I can tell you that other than physically being able to hold your pee (happens about 12-18 months) none of the other signs matter. My kid was day trained at 23 months in three days (naked) with almost zero accidents after that (well 2 in the next three months), and these are the signs he was/wasnt' showing at 23 months:

Physical signs

Is coordinated enough to walk, and even run, steadily. YES

Urinates a fair amount at one time. YES

Has regular, well-formed bowel movements at relatively predictable times. NOT AT PREDICTIBLE TIMES

Has "dry" periods of at least two hours or during naps, which shows that his bladder muscles are developed enough to hold urine. YES

Behavioral signs

Can sit down quietly in one position for two to five minutes. OCCASIONALLY

Can pull his pants up and down. NOWHERE CLOSE

Dislikes the feeling of wearing a wet or dirty diaper. NEVER CARED

Shows interest in others' bathroom habits (wants to watch you go to the bathroom or wear underwear). NO INTEREST

Gives a physical or verbal sign when he's having a bowel movement such as grunting, squatting, or telling you. MADE A FACE ONLY

Demonstrates a desire for independence. NOT REALLY

Takes pride in his accomplishments. PERHAPS

Isn't resistant to learning to use the toilet. WHO KNOWS

Is in a generally cooperative stage, not a negative or contrary one. YES (THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT AND WHY TRAINING BEFORE TWO IS IDEAL)

Cognitive signs

Understands the physical signals that mean he has to go and can tell you before it happens or even hold it until he has time to get to the potty. NO

Can follow simple instructions, such as "go get the toy." NO

Understands the value of putting things where they belong. YES

Has words for urine and stool. NO (LATE TALKER WITH BARELY ANY WORDS AT ALL)

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For example, these are the same kids who don't swim well until later because the parents freak them out about it, don't climb to the top of the jungle gym, are picky eaters, etc.

Are you saying that all fearful anxious kids are late potty trainers? I don't think that is true. Some kids just have anxious personalities. It isn't always the parents' fault.

I think generally it is the parents who foster anxiety and behavior that is behind most other children by seizing on it and encouraging it, instead of dealing with it in a way that allows the child to cope and overcome obstacles. I generally think late potty training is a parenting issue. I also think, based on my own observations of many parents after having 2 children, that other instances of children being fearful of trying things and moving to the next level, etc., are the result of parenting. Of course, I understand that come children are fearful/cautious while others are intrepid; however, I think that generally when a child shuts down repeatedly due to fear and cannot accomplish the things his/her peers do, it is the result of how the parents handle new situations. I am sure most people on this board will disagree and say that their child "just wasn't ready" to use a toilet until 3.5, or swim underwater until 5, etc. I am saying that I believe these instances are the result of parenting/nurture and not nature (expect in extreme circumstances like special needs). I understand that makes people defensive.

Oh my goodness. Well, DS potty trained just shy of 2, easily. He's extremely articulate and does a ton of things well, but he's not an adventurer. By your standards he's a victim of anxious parenting, because we don't force him, at 3.5 to put his face in the water (and I'm an all-American swimmer, full college scholarship, and lifeguard for years, and I didn't put MY face into the water until well after 5 years old, incidentally) nor do we push him hard into things that scare him (though we do gently encourage) I just think your post is laughable. It goes to show what snap judgments are good for. I'm not defensive at all. I really don't care what some person, who doesn't seem terribly bright, thinks about my kids or my parenting.

Your post does not change my opinion that the reason your child will not jump into the pool from the edge is because of something you are doing. Regardless of whether it's a bad thing or not, you should take responsibility. This is another area where kids start getting embarrassed around 3.5/4 when their peers can swim. 5 is ridiculous.

You don't seem to understand how little I care about your opinion on my parenting. With every post you seem more like a loon. I do think you're probably just trolling, as I find it hard to believe anyone would be so adamant about their idiotic opinions. Save it for someone who cares about what you have to say? (Guessing nobody in real life does...)

All I am saying is that parents should take responsibility. My child used a sippy cup at home until age 4, which I think is way too long. I fully acknowledge that it was because I allowed it, and not because she was not "showing signs of readiness" to give it up. She probably would have drunk from that thing on the couch happily until 4th grade. It was my job as her mother to throw it away. So, I take full responsibility. If someone else had been in charge, maybe she would have given it up at age 2. JUST LIKE IF I WERE IN CHARGE, YOUR KID WOULD BE POTTY TRAINED WELL BEFORE THREE. I am saying your kid is fine and was ready at 2. IT'S YOU, and YOUR DECISION to wait. If you feel ok about that, great. But STOP BLAMING IT ON YOUR KID.

Hey dumbass, my kid was potty trained at 22 months. Try to remember what you're sniping at people for. You're hating on me because my 3.5 year old can't swim yet.

LOL

Look, do whatever you want, but your kid can't swim yet because of decisions you are making, not anything to do with your kid. If swimming is not a priority, fine, but most kids can do it by 3 if someone takes the time to teach them--kinda like potty training.

NP here, this argument is ridiculous. Plenty of ADULTS can't swim. All adults (absent a disability) are potty trained.