Anonymous wrote:I think the problem here is that certain bigoted posters can't recognize that there's such a thing as bi. In their mind anyone who's ever had a m-m experience is a "secret gay." Presumably these guys aren't allowed to marry anyone because if they tried SSM then their husband would be able to accuse them of being a "secret straight."

Maybe because all the "bis" we knew became gays later. Just like Elton John and George Michael.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still trying to figure out why a gay guy would be trying to marry women and sleep with them. It would just complicate his gay life. Will someone please explain to me why a truly gay man would seek out women to marry and have sex with. Nobody has yet to explain that to me.

At the risk of sounding redundant, just because a man has had an isolated involvement or two with another guy does not make him gay. He may have done so out of a myriad of reasons: being intoxicated, wanting to experiment, being genuinely attracted to a guy, going through a dry period with women, etc. If you are of the mindset that any same sex involvement is indicative of being permanently gay, then you will not neither understand or accept what I am saying.

It is rare for a guy who is gay to get married especially in today's environment where the stigma to being gay is less of a factor. It happens but it is a rarity.

You're wrong. There's still a lot of family and societal pressure on guys, especially in certain professions, to be straight, married, with 2.1 children. Many of them do want to fit in and live the American dream family.

See:

Straight Spouse Network - for current and former straight spouses and partners of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people
www.ssnetwk.org/


AND

The Other Side of the Closet: The Coming-Out Crisis for Straight Spouses and Families http://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-Closet-Coming-Out-Straight/dp/0471021520
An invaluable book incorporating the author's seven years of research and interviews with hundreds of spouses with insights derived from her own teaching and counseling work. Contains stories and tactics for straight spouses and their families to constructively cope with a mate or family member who declares his/her homosexuality. Analyzes six key issues a straight spouse faces when a partner `comes out' including damaged sexuality, threatened marital relationships, conflicting spouse/parent roles, devalued self-concept, destroyed integrity and shattered belief systems.

Anonymous wrote:NP. So a straight man will get a hardon when he's in the presence of a women he wants to screw. A gay or bi male will get aroused when in the presence of a male that he wants to fuck/suck or vice versa.

Are you kidding me? You think the only reaons men (or boys for that matter) get hard ons is because they want to fuck something? You don't know jack shit about men/boys. They get hard ons for all kinds of reasons - or no reason at all.

Anonymous wrote:^^ Kinsey's research was bullshit. Read the other thread. Research methods were completely flawed.... Sorry, guys. You're gay. Just man up. Nobody on here is gay-bashing. We think it's wrong to pretend to be hetero and lie to the one person deserving of your thruths- your spouse.

+1

NP. So a straight man will get a hardon when he's in the presence of a women he wants to screw. A gay or bi male will get aroused when in the presence of a male that he wants to fuck/suck or vice versa.

Anonymous wrote:Bowie is bi. No one is saying that people are not bi. The question is can a man have sexual relationships with men and be straight?" The answer is NO!

ANY VOLUNTARY SEXUAL CONTACT WITH A MAN MAKES A MAN BISEXUAL OR GAY. NO STRAIGHT MAN HAS EVER HAD ANY VOLUNTARY SEXUAL CONTACT WITH ANY MAN. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A STRAIGHT MAN.

Just because you say something rloudly and repeatedly doesn't make it true. Actions don't make one gay, straight or bisexual, attraction does. Homesexual males are allowed to become Catholic priests but are expected to be celibate. A man can be a homosexual without every having had sexual experience. If someone no longer finds members of the same sex attractive, they are straight, not bisexual.

But, I'm sure you're going to keep repeating yourself and yelling - just remember that doesn't mean people are going to come around to your way of thinking.

Bowie is bi. No one is saying that people are not bi. The question is can a man have sexual relationships with men and be straight?" The answer is NO!

ANY VOLUNTARY SEXUAL CONTACT WITH A MAN MAKES A MAN BISEXUAL OR GAY. NO STRAIGHT MAN HAS EVER HAD ANY VOLUNTARY SEXUAL CONTACT WITH ANY MAN. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A STRAIGHT MAN.

I don't know. What do you people think about Bowie and Iman--they've been married 20 years now. He definitely smoked the bone back in the day.




So, there's that.

the men (the bi or experimental ones) here are tripping.

i think all this is being said to scare women or get them worked up. outside of me saying my little piece a few pages back, there arent that many other men responding refuting that experimenting with other men phase is some widely thing not talked about.

the few guys i knew in college who "experimented" turned out to be gay all along.they didnt go marrying women and what not.

but since this is gone on 13 pages, i guess everyone wants to treat this as gospel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever helps you guys sleep at night. At the very least you are bi and your DW should know that.

And if you, with a straight face, are trying to say that sexing both men and women is the equivalent of sexing both brunette women and blond women - uhhh - you might want to take Middle School sex ed again.

Well clearly you know better than I do. So what's it like "sexing" both? Hmmm?

I don't know....you tell me!! But what I do know is that the blonde and brunette in the previous example both have vaginas. Only a delusional person would equate having sex with someone who has a penis with having sex with someone who has a vagina.

Anonymous wrote:Whatever helps you guys sleep at night. At the very least you are bi and your DW should know that.

And if you, with a straight face, are trying to say that sexing both men and women is the equivalent of sexing both brunette women and blond women - uhhh - you might want to take Middle School sex ed again.

Well clearly you know better than I do. So what's it like "sexing" both? Hmmm?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem here is that certain bigoted posters can't recognize that there's such a thing as bi. In their mind anyone who's ever had a m-m experience is a "secret gay." Presumably these guys aren't allowed to marry anyone because if they tried SSM then their husband would be able to accuse them of being a "secret straight."

I imagine that being attracted to both sexes is probably like being attracted to different types of women. For a long time my preferred type was brunettes but I always winded up dating blondes. Then I had a series of Asian girlfriends. I wound up marrying someone with English-Scottish heritage (reddish-medium brown hair fwiw).

I still find many brunettes and Asians attractive, but to say that somehow my wife has to worry about them because she can never be that is just stupid and juvenile. I chose to be with her, and I quite literally agreed to forsake all others. I'm not going to cheat because there's an attractive brunette or Asian in my office. My guess is that bi guys who marry women can do the same thing.

The problem isn't whether someone once touched a penis, it's character. You should have judged the character of your guy before you married him, and if you would divorce him because he once did something you think is icky, you're a shallow POS and he's better off without you.

...Said like a true gay man. Good for you, PP. For the record, there's a HUGE difference between hair color in women and big sack of hairy balls. Anyone else out there willing to say you can understand the similarities between these? You're GAY!

Oh good lord, I think that's probably the third time you've called me gay on this thread. Sorry, I'm confident enough in my sexuality that some anonymous bigot can't shake it sorry.

And hey, one wonders why it is that you're so obessed with calling others gay? Isn't it always the gay bashers who are sucking ___ on the side? Are you even a woman? Or do you just like to fantasize about being one?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Showed this thread to my proudly openly gay brother.

He said it was odd that the posters who are calling gay actually seem more reasonable about it. He said that the people who are going out of their way to insist that certain conduct was not gay seem to be in denial – like they are afraid of the label. He said that these people seem to be buying into the negative connotation more than the seemingly “close minded” people who only see gay and straight.

He also said that he sure he knows some of your DHs.

That's interesting. I showed it to my gay BIL and he says a few homosexual experiences aren't enough to make one 'gay'. He said that if people have attraction to only one sex, that's homosexual. If they're attracted to both sexes, they're bisexual. He also said it's not unusual for a person to be bisexual at one time and then change to either gay or heterosexual. Preferences can change.

I don't think anyone making the non-gay argument is a bigot or has problems with the 'label', it's just not the correct label. My kids have special needs and I feel this issue keenly. I have no problem with people knowing what my kids' 'labels' because that's how their disabilities are best described. There are overlapping symptoms between different 'labels' (think ADHD and ASD) that may lead a person to think my child has a different label than the one diagnoses but that would be incorrect. In the same way, homosexual experience doesn't necessarily indicate sexual preference. "Gay" describes someone's preference, not their experience.

I am the PP you are responding to. I have a DC with SN, so I somewhat understand your analogy and I appreciate your measured reasoned response. But maybe you could help me with one piece of what you said because this thread has confused me. We hear all the time that LGBT are "born" that way - that is who they are. I have internalized that concept and whenever I had to defend my brother or advocated for friends, that was my lead arguement - that is who they are - it is a basic part of their identity and personality. My brother thinks that also. In this thread, I am reading words like "preference" which implies choice. That is why I am struggling with the whole concept. I hope no one jumps on me because I am really trying to understand. Isn't the concept that someone is "born" gay (and that is their being) in conflict with saying that "although I chose to have a few homosexual experiences, I am not gay?" Seems like it is a nature/nurture type dicussion. Hope I did not offend.

I’m the PP you’re asking (I really do have a gay BIL and I’m glad you haven’t been flamed). I very much believe that people are born with their sexual orientation but that it is a ‘spectrum’ much the way ASD/ADHD are spectrums. As a PP noted, some people are at one end (completely heterosexual) or the other (completely homosexual) and there are some people in between. With brain maturity and interventions (which help the brain make new/different brain connections) the symptoms of ASD/ADHD may lessen or may even seem to disappear over time. That doesn’t mean the person never had or no longer has ASD/ADHD, it just means that maturity/interventions moved that person to a different point on the spectrum.

I see this as completely congruent with the thinking on sexual orientation. It IS something that you’re born with but the intensity/preference can move along the spectrum as a person matures and has experiences. Of course, you always will have those people who say X, Y, Z therapy cured their DC of ASD or that sexual orientation can be changed through therapy. But you can’t. All you can do is move it along a continuum but you can never truly eliminate a preference. Regardless of one’s sexual preference, I do believe that we should expect monogamy and fidelity in our committed relationships – but that’s a different issue and not related to sexual preference. Does that help?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My wife read this and agreed with the posters saying that they don't want a man who has been with other men. She echoes everything you guys were saying.

She even said "That's why I married you, you're not into that stuff - 100% all man."

I used to mess around with a gay guy I worked with in college.

You should feel so good for yourself, scumbag. I hope someone spits in your food or cums on your pizza and serves it to you. You'd never know, right. So, it shouldn't matter. You're the worst kind of douche. Go back to craigslist and troll there. It's just gross to have you on here!

Scratch the cum on pizza part. You'd know that and would actually like it.

Bahahaha! But yeah that guy is a fucking asshole. And gay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My wife read this and agreed with the posters saying that they don't want a man who has been with other men. She echoes everything you guys were saying.

She even said "That's why I married you, you're not into that stuff - 100% all man."

I used to mess around with a gay guy I worked with in college.

You should feel so good for yourself, scumbag. I hope someone spits in your food or cums on your pizza and serves it to you. You'd never know, right. So, it shouldn't matter. You're the worst kind of douche. Go back to craigslist and troll there. It's just gross to have you on here!

Scratch the cum on pizza part. You'd know that and would actually like it.