Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 07:32     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I do not have firsthand knowledge, but piecing together from this thread and what I've read elsewhere on DCUM, it sounds like their charter was threatened recently when the many stories of this dual lottery were not going away, and they reluctantly now are clear that they only have one lottery and do not give language preference (which is the part that is against the charters). If they are still cheating, I'd guess they are risking their charter, but that is basically just a guess given what I've read here and heard elsewhere.


Lamb, like YY, is one of the charter boards darlings. Nothing will happen to them if they continue to circumvent the process and cheat. Are you kidding, the DCUM crowd may do something violent. And, I am a parent of one of these charters.



Wrong. The question put them in jeopardy, so they removed it. You clearly have no firsthand experience with the PCSB,


And yet they continue to ask verbally "for their records." Shut them down!
Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 07:32     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:RE: LAMB, when we applied last year there was a place on the application to indicate whether Spanish was spoken at home (don't remember the exact wording).


I rest my case. LAMB has been told to stop asking that question for separate lotteries, but they have no fear of repercussions. I think I will tell my sister to use my DC address and apply for my niece who resides in Maryland. She's 18 months and live in downtown Silver Spring. If she gets a spot, my sister can drop her off on her way to work. Easy commute



Obviously, you don't. Have you considered learning to read?
Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 07:27     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I do not have firsthand knowledge, but piecing together from this thread and what I've read elsewhere on DCUM, it sounds like their charter was threatened recently when the many stories of this dual lottery were not going away, and they reluctantly now are clear that they only have one lottery and do not give language preference (which is the part that is against the charters). If they are still cheating, I'd guess they are risking their charter, but that is basically just a guess given what I've read here and heard elsewhere.


Lamb, like YY, is one of the charter boards darlings. Nothing will happen to them if they continue to circumvent the process and cheat. Are you kidding, the DCUM crowd may do something violent. And, I am a parent of one of these charters.



Wrong. The question put them in jeopardy, so they removed it. You clearly have no firsthand experience with the PCSB,
Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 06:56     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Your FARMs students are not doing very well on CAS, so I'll take that bet.



Our scores could be better, true, we're working on it. At least we don't dump them onto a non-immersion apartheid track. Oh, but I almost forgot, 2 white kids were dumped there, too, before their furious parents pulled them out.

Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 06:40     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th

Honestly, most parents who already have their kids in the immersion charter of their choice don't care. After all, their kids are already in.

Speak for yourself, YY mom or dad. Here at Stokes we don't appreciate how tough dcpc makes it for us to harness the bilingual inputs our school needs to offer high quality programs. In the suburbs, native speakers don't end up on a waiting lists running to 1,000 names for immersion programs! MD & VA do not need 2 lotteries like we do. Just because my kid is IN doesn't mean that I've lost my vision for 2-way immersion. I'll leave that to the YY boosters. They can be relied on to reject cultural inputs that don't come from nervous teachers on 1-year work visas.
Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 06:26     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

As long as you're part of the system, you have to play by the rules.


Spare us your holier than thou rant. Get back to me at AP language test time and college acceptances season. That's when our FARMs Spanish and English speakers are going to shine.

Your FARMs students are not doing very well on CAS, so I'll take that bet.



Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 06:06     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:

As long as you're part of the system, you have to play by the rules.


Spare us your holier than thou rant. Get back to me at AP language test time and college acceptances season. That's when our FARMs Spanish and English speakers are going to shine.





Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 06:03     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
0:6 you don't know as much about MoCo immersion programs as you indicate.

College Gardens + Potomac are loaded with Cantonese and other dialect speakers. Technically, yes, 2nd is the first test-in year, and Mandarin is the only dialect tested, but, in the big picture, these programs bend over backwards to keep the ratio of Chinese to English speakers as close to 50-50 as they can.
There is little controversy about how they go about it - parents who don't speak Chinese want bilingual kids (and not just Mandarin speakers) in a big way, and some of the administrators (and all the testers) speak not just Mandarin, but dialects.

Also, MoCo continues with partial immersion into MS, and allows Chinese heritage language schools to use MCPS facilities on weekends to help maintain good relations with the local Chinese community, which embraces the immersion programs as their own. Same with immersion programs for other languages. Plenty to emulate.







Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 05:37     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:Lamb parent who does care, really cares, among many others.

I turned down a YY PreK spot. Strange school where most of the admins don't even speak the target language, a bilingual kid is hard to find and, yes, few parents seem to care. If DC Charter moves to revoke Lamb's charter, which won't surprise me, many of us here say bring it on. There are dual-immersion public school Spanish programs in this very city with 2 lotteries at a time when the lines between DCPC and DCPS are starting to blur. If DC Charter doesn't want us, maybe DCPS does and we'd be better off under their auspices long-term. Our admins feel strongly enough about keeping the percentage of native speakers high, with parental support, that they don't fear the future.



As long as you're part of the system, you have to play by the rules.
Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 05:35     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Lamb parent who does care, really cares, among many others.

I turned down a YY PreK spot. Strange school where most of the admins don't even speak the target language, a bilingual kid is hard to find and, yes, few parents seem to care. If DC Charter moves to revoke Lamb's charter, which won't surprise me, many of us here say bring it on. There are dual-immersion public school Spanish programs in this very city with 2 lotteries at a time when the lines between DCPC and DCPS are starting to blur. If DC Charter doesn't want us, maybe DCPS does and we'd be better off under their auspices long-term. Our admins feel strongly enough about keeping the percentage of native speakers high, with parental support, that they don't fear the future.



Anonymous
Post 02/13/2013 00:06     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:PPs are getting lost in the weeds on lottery issues. The language immersion schools tend to play games in their efforts to enroll bilingual kids because they are stuck between a rock and a hard place where admissons are concerned. With few native speakers on board, such schools aren't in a great position to carry out their missions. They clearly need to form some sort of consortium, with the DCPS programs involved, joining hands to lobby the charter board and city council education committee for the admissions policies they need to raise standards, and they need to do it year in and year out until sensible compromises have been reached. Nearby MoCo offers reasonable models for replacing language immersion drop-outs from K+ which could be replicated in DC, probably with little resistance on the ground. Just because the powers that be aren't biting in 2013 doesn't mean they won't next year, or the year after. The first DC charters didn't come in until the late 90s. It's worth remembering that these schools don't have long histories, so nothing is set in stone. I'd like to see media attention to the issue to build momentum for change.




MoCo allows test-in lottery for grades 2nd and higher. They get more attrition from their immersion programs b/c there are many other acceptable options including great neighborhood schools, g&t programs as well as bus service for most students. Some neighborhoods in DC like Ward 5 does not even have a middle school never mind the quality or test-in gifted programs of any kind or bus service.

Population wise, MoCo is nearly twice DC's size with a much different demographic. Also, testing-in for their Mandarin program for 2nd grade and higher is only for Mandarin not Cantonese, Shanghainese, or any other dialect. Since it's 2nd grade that these kids will be sufficiently literate in Mandarin.

DC already allows dual lotteries for dual language programs like at Oyster which MoCo does not do for any of their immersion programs. Perhaps one day, DC may allow the immersion charters to have the same test-in option like MoCo but it'll probably come after they allow DCPS and charters to have a test-in G&T program and allows schools like Bridges to give preference to SN kids in their admissions.
In other words, you're going to have a long wait but since you're so adamant about change, go lobby the charter board. Honestly, most parents who already have their kids in the immersion charter of their choice don't care. After all, their kids are already in. So instead of vehemently criticizing YY and other charters for following charter rules, go do the work for change yourself since you care so much. Good luck!

Anonymous
Post 02/12/2013 23:36     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Anonymous wrote:Ok so YY is a terrible school because a) it makes no effort to attract Chinese speakers, b) it fraudulently gives preference to Chinese speakers or c) it refuses to fraudulently give preference to Chinese speakers. Can someone please clarify? Or maybe it's d) because 20 people on DCUM think it is.


^This. YY is very transparent. Holds a public lottery, anyone interested can attend, and posts the waitlist on-line for all the world to see.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2013 23:11     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
PPs are getting lost in the weeds on lottery issues. The language immersion schools tend to play games in their efforts to enroll bilingual kids because they are stuck between a rock and a hard place where admissons are concerned. With few native speakers on board, such schools aren't in a great position to carry out their missions. They clearly need to form some sort of consortium, with the DCPS programs involved, joining hands to lobby the charter board and city council education committee for the admissions policies they need to raise standards, and they need to do it year in and year out until sensible compromises have been reached. Nearby MoCo offers reasonable models for replacing language immersion drop-outs from K+ which could be replicated in DC, probably with little resistance on the ground. Just because the powers that be aren't biting in 2013 doesn't mean they won't next year, or the year after. The first DC charters didn't come in until the late 90s. It's worth remembering that these schools don't have long histories, so nothing is set in stone. I'd like to see media attention to the issue to build momentum for change.


Anonymous
Post 02/12/2013 22:38     Subject: Re:Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Th
Anonymous wrote:
Why go private now. Did the school not measure up?


If you really want to know, Chinese instruction isn't our concern. We both studied some in college and DC's Mandarin seems fine. But we agree with PPs who think that these admins are not the right ones, and that having so few bilingual kids at YY is a problem (but disagree with those claiming that the lottery and small number of native speakers in the District explain the tiny number).

We're tired of hearing about the lovely, welcoming atmosphere when we voice concerns. It's an in-bred school where constructive criticism tends to be viewed as dissent. We're busy professionals without the stamina to challenge. Above all, we're not happy with the non-Chinese curriculum. You can't speak freely about the issues when most of the children who struggle are low-SES AA. I don't believe that such kids, other than a few gifted ones, belong in a Chinese immersion school, and don't like the way DCPC lets in many then fails to provide those it has with the inputs needed to thrive. It all sounds wonderful, but isn't a practical approach. Our kid is already bored too much in classes disrupted by rowdy kids who can't handle the work.

It's a like it or lump it program and most parents do love it, at least before around 3rd grade. Sidwell or wherever for us with our spot remainining empty when a Chinese-speaking kid could take it if the calculus weren't absurdly politicized. We can afford a more serious school where our input is more likely to be valued, and can find the Mandarin elsewhere.

THIS.



Anonymous
Post 02/12/2013 21:06     Subject: Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
Does LAMB not have a public lottery? Seems like this would be difficult to do if people were watching.