Anonymous wrote:This thread originally started as "how do you afford DC." Then it morphed into "convince me to move away from a dirt-cheap area that I love."

I give up.

To be more precise, "Show me how you afford to live a decent life in DC, because when I run the numbers it looks as though we'll be totally poverty-stricken, live in a slum, and have to dig in the sofa cushions to take Metro to the great free/cheap stuff."

I used to know how to live in DC, because my salary bore some relationship to my housing costs. Now it just seems wildly abstract. We're packing now. How are we going to make this work?

PS - If you live in one of the most expensive cities in the country, everywhere else is not "dirt cheap." It's, like, normal to be able to buy a house for double-ish your annual income.

How do we afford it? Early to mid-30s. Saved like crazy for 6 years, then bought on the downslope of the housing boom (still really expensive though). Put 10% down when all our friends were putting much less down, and got a good interest rate. Still paid much more for the house than previous owners though.
I just can't imagine moving back home where all there is to do is football, movies, and chain restaurants as someone said back on page 5. Even if I could have a giant house and all kinds of toys for the kids- I'd go CRAZY.

This thread originally started as "how do you afford DC." Then it morphed into "convince me to move away from a dirt-cheap area that I love."

I give up.

OP. The only reason I am still in the DC area is because my DH family and my mom are here (we were raised here). I am the only family my mom has (only child). Job market is good here, but if circumstances were different - I would move. Housing is expensive and traffic is horrendous. In some places/times, what should be a 10 minutes commute could be an hour (standstill traffic). Dealing with the expense/crowds/traffic among other things makes people in the area not as friendly as should be (including me). BTW - I am in Fairfax, VA (not downtime DC).

Anonymous wrote:
People in small midwest towns don't typically make 300 grand a year. Just like small town folk close to hear don't either. So I think you assumed incorrectly.

I read the OP's post differently. The $330K figure was how much the HOUSE cost, not the HHI.

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I wasn't trying to exude smugness. I think everyone's wound up by previous snarky remarks. I was asking an innocent question. I'm genuinely curious about how people outside of major metro areas live. I was wondering if the arts are a part of their everyday lives. How much access do they have to it? That kind of thing. I got snippy when the other poster called me a moron for asking the question. Not much midwest charm there.

Our neighborhood is lousy with artists because they can afford real houses with work space. DC and I routinely hang out in working studios, and there are several nonprofit and low-cost arts and maker spaces within a few minutes, so it's omnipresent. There are a bunch of galleries in the neighborhood and pottery, writing, printmaking, photography, drama and dance programs for kids.

We have a gem of an art museum from the robber baron days, a solid MOCA, many smaller museums and galleries, science/natural history, history, and a great children's museum. Excellent zoo. Opera, ballet, symphony, chamber, early music, multiple chorales etc. More music than we know what to do with - have yet to go out on the spur of the moment and not find something unexpected. It's often more intimate, too - my favorite concert experiences ever have been here. Well known design school with many graduate businesses.

There's not as much as the big coastal cities, not by a long shot, but I never got around to everything available when I lived in DC and NYC, either. There's enough here to keep us busy and interested and not like, oh no, there again?

We do travel for events - take a three-day weekend and go to the Biennial or a first run play in NYC. We didn't get molecular gastronomy here for more than a year after some other cities, so we traveled to eat and then laughed our asses off.

There is a lot of regional tourism here. If you live in podunk and you care about art, you take a day or weekend trip to the nearest big city.

Anonymous wrote:

Again? You people are retarded. I am originally from Cincinnati and there are 4-5 major museums and plenty of small, storefront art gallery shops. The Cincinnati Art Museum is free and the Contemporary Arts Center is the ONLY major architectural building in the US designed by a woman (Zaha Hadid). The University of Cincinnati has more buildings designed my major architects than any other campus in the entire country. The Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park won the regional Tony a few years ago. We have a ballet, an opera, and a highly-regarded symphony. Findlay Market is like a smaller version of Eastern Market. There is a thriving music and theater scene. It's not DC or NY, but people there don't give a fuck. We have beautiful parks, major Fortune 500 companies, etc etc etc. The restaurant scene is lousy but what are you gonna do? No place is perfect.

I think I've talked myself into moving back. I am sick to fucking death of morons like you.

Was lousy. It is smaller with fewer choices, but you'd be surprised by what's opened in the last few years. OTR is radically different - still trying to find a DC meal as good as Senate or Local 127.

Anonymous wrote:
In contrast, my friends who stayed in the midwest have all been married 10 years, are friends with the same people we went to high school with, haven't seen the world, all have the same type of job/are stay at home moms, have kids in elementary school, don't really do anything on the weekends, and are quite frankly boring (and many of them have told me that they are bored). So despite the high cost of living here, I feel that I live a great life in DC that I could not get in the boring midwest.

So wait. You kept in touch with the people you knew in high school - the ones who didn't try to do anything else. You haven't gone back home and tried to meet the people who are doing something. Do I understand you correctly? And... you know what all Midwesterners are like.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I *don't* live here, I don't have the data you have. I am trying to understand what makes it worthwhile.

So, I'm asking people who *do* live here and love it what makes it worthwhile for them. In response, people keep describing what I already have, and in some cases, less than what I already have, as though it's a mindblowing urban wonderland.

So I'm pointing that out so that they will stop assuming that everything in flyover country is McMansions and Applebee's, and describe more specifically what they find attractive about DC. I don't have trouble understanding why Paris is worth living rough. I do have trouble understanding what's special about DC. And I've spent a lot of time here trying to figure out what people see in it, and coming up short.

I am hoping to see some genuine distinction that will clue me in.

Is this a difficult concept?

If you don't see any distinction between a world class power city like DC and Kansas you are smoking something. If the only things that impress you are skyscrapers or most prominent world tourist destinations like Paris, it just shows your small town mentality. You won't enjoy it here, you are right. Stay where you are. Your lifestyle is not going to be different here and this is because of who you are and what you are looking for, not because of what this city can and cannot offer.

You're so funny. I'm from the East Coast and lived/worked/ate/drank/dated/consumed culture in DC for years. It was good. I liked many things about it, including the LOC. It was still a reasonably affordable place.

Then I moved to the Midwest for what was supposed to be a short sojourn on an interesting project, expecting to gut out my exile and come home as soon as possible. This city turned out to be much, much more fun than I imagined. It had everything I need to be happy - great bars, brilliant food (yes, including ethnic), music/theater/museums, parks and gorgeous natural areas and educated, talented, diverse, mostly down to earth people, at least one of them alarmingly hot. So, two years stretched into a decade. The schools were decent and we could afford a great house in a great neighborhood. And while I was working elsewhere, DC got crazy expensive and so much changed and was built and I thought the city would be even better. I figured if people were willing and able to pay $400K for little houses with big problems, there had to be a really good reason. And for personal reasons unrelated to where we live, we thought it might be good to be in the mid Atlantic. So we've been reading the paper every day and vacationing and going to the restaurants and theaters that are supposed to be better than ours and... we have this. I don't need to be completely bowled over, but I do need to feel as though we get something for what we give up. What we don't have is the Smithsonian/monuments/Mall, government and a *very* few cultural events we want and won't see here. But $1800/mo less in mortgage buys a lot of airfare and hotel. I hop on transit and am at DCA in a little over 2 hours door to door. Some of you have commutes almost that long.

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm puzzled. And because those personal reasons still hold, we're thinking we may still end up crapping out our QOL in myriad ways to live in the region. I keep hoping I am going see something that makes me not sad to be considering this option.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?

OP - I grew up in the midwest. I'm in my mid-30s recently married and no kids (yet). I make a lot of money, I've travelled a ton over the past 15 years, have been able to eat at amazing restaurants, drink at cool bars, go to museums, talks, parks, and have a lot of really awesome vacation spots within driving distance. On top of that, I've been able to meet really interesting people from a variety of places and in a variety of careers and have an amazingly cool and diverse group of friends. In contrast, my fr iends who stayed in the midwest have all been married 10 years, are friends with the same people we went to high school with, haven't seen the world, all have the same type of job/are stay at home moms, have kids in elementary school, don't really do anything on the weekends, and are quite frankly boring (and many of them have told me that they are bored). So despite the high cost of living here, I feel that I live a great life in DC that I could not get in the boring midwest.

As for salaries, most people in DC are NOT "wonks" as you say or lobbyists. Yes, we have an overabundence of lawyers and consultants here, but we also have a lot of people who get crappy staffer, non-profit or Fed salaries, too.

LMAO. Since you're on DCUM, I'm assuming you want children one day pp. When your first DC turns 1, don't forget to come back and tell us how exciting your life is then.

My kid is 2. We're constantly doing exciting activities around the city, visiting museums, and having a great time. So yes, it's possible to have a kid and take advantage of the city and *gasp* even have an exciting life.

I take my child to parks and museusms (didn't know that was exclusive to DC). But comparing a DINK lifestyle to a parent's lifestyle is apples and oranges and has no business in a "which city is better conversation".

How often do you go to museums with your child (assuming you're the op who lives in the midwest)? And how many are there in your city?

No, I'm not the OP from the midwest. I live in DC - in fact I can walk to the mall in 10 minutes. However, I would never be so smug as to think DC is the only city where I can find decent cultural attractions.

I wasn't trying to exude smugness. I think everyone's wound up by previous snarky remarks. I was asking an innocent question. I'm genuinely curious about how people outside of major metro areas live. I was wondering if the arts are a part of their everyday lives. How much access do they have to it? That kind of thing. I got snippy when the other poster called me a moron for asking the question. Not much midwest charm there.

Okay. You're not a moron, just ignorant as fucking hell despite being overeducated. City snobs always assume the "bumpkins" din't know anything about the city. Obviouly this ignorance goes both ways.

OP, the truth is, high COL places don't pay significantly higher when you are already at a high range of salary for your lower COL area. Even if you get equivalent job in NYC or Bay Area you are not likely to make much more and you definitely won't double your salary. Please think about the motive of your move. Do you want to move because you are getting slightly more money? Or is the real reason is that you want to experience new pastures and you want to explore? it is silly for you to take this offer if you are mostly concerned about money and are happy living where you are. If your place offers you what you need then stay there, you will save a lot less here. Only move here because you want to and if you don't find DC attractive option and can't understand why it would be different, maybe it's not the place for you. I didn't understand from any of your posts what exactly you are looking for and what would make a city attractive for you or interesting or worth moving to. Don't know what you are looking for really. You sort of have to have an open mind when you explore different places and take the good with the bad.

Anonymous wrote:Because I *don't* live here, I don't have the data you have. I am trying to understand what makes it worthwhile.

So, I'm asking people who *do* live here and love it what makes it worthwhile for them. In response, people keep describing what I already have, and in some cases, less than what I already have, as though it's a mindblowing urban wonderland.

So I'm pointing that out so that they will stop assuming that everything in flyover country is McMansions and Applebee's, and describe more specifically what they find attractive about DC. I don't have trouble understanding why Paris is worth living rough. I do have trouble understanding what's special about DC. And I've spent a lot of time here trying to figure out what people see in it, and coming up short.

I am hoping to see some genuine distinction that will clue me in.

Is this a difficult concept?

If you don't see any distinction between a world class power city like DC and Kansas you are smoking something. If the only things that impress you are skyscrapers or most prominent world tourist destinations like Paris, it just shows your small town mentality. You won't enjoy it here, you are right. Stay where you are. Your lifestyle is not going to be different here and this is because of who you are and what you are looking for, not because of what this city can and cannot offer.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?

Like several of the other posters, I grew up here (in a NoVA suburb), so the crazy COL always seemed normal to me. I moved into DC after college and lived the dirt poor nonprofit worker lifestyle. I love living in the city, and my now-DH and I decided early on that it was worth the trade offs. He makes about $125K. I was only making about $45K (again, nonprofit), and I became a SAHM after we had a child. You really have to know what sort of trade offs you are willing to make? We live in a 2 bedroom, 1,000 SF condo. We don't have a yard, but on the other hand there are tons of kids and parks around us, and with less than a 5 minute walk to the metro (and we only have 1 car), we pretty much consider the whole city to be our backyard. Even without the metro we can walk to the zoo, library, grocery shopping, 5 or 6 playgrounds and parks, and about 200 restaurants. Our condo is not fancy and our local school is average, but we love our fun, walkable neighborhood, and DS spends his days having fun at museums, parks, the zoo, etc. By DC standards we don't make a lot of money, but we love our lifestyle.

What is comes down to, OP, is what sort of lifestyle do you and your family want? What are your non-negotiables? What are you willing to sacrifice?

Btw, don't listen to the snarkers who hate living here. No place is perfect of course, but DC is a great place to live if you are looking for that lifestyle.

Sounds nice, but still waiting for you to name something we don't have, and for a quarter of the price. The salary bump is not close to the differential. I would understand if our HHI were going to quadruple, or even double, but it won't, so I am genuinely trying to understand what makes this worthwhile. Some of you must be in jobs that simply don't exist, or not in adequate numbers, elsewhere - but if you're not a wonk or a lobbyist, why?

Okay, so now OP is getting snarky!!

OP - I grew up in the midwest. I'm in my mid-30s recently married and no kids (yet). I make a lot of money, I've travelled a ton over the past 15 years, have been able to eat at amazing restaurants, drink at cool bars, go to museums, talks, parks, and have a lot of really awesome vacation spots within driving distance. On top of that, I've been able to meet really interesting people from a variety of places and in a variety of careers and have an amazingly cool and diverse group of friends. In contrast, my friends who stayed in the midwest have all been married 10 years, are friends with the same people we went to high school with, haven't seen the world, all have the same type of job/are stay at home moms, have kids in elementary school, don't really do anything on the weekends, and are quite frankly boring (and many of them have told me that they are bored). So despite the high cost of living here, I feel that I live a great life in DC that I could not get in the boring midwest.

As for salaries, most people in DC are NOT "wonks" as you say or lobbyists. Yes, we have an overabundence of lawyers and consultants here, but we also have a lot of people who get crappy staffer, non-profit or Fed salaries, too.

LMAO. Since you're on DCUM, I'm assuming you want children one day pp. When your first DC turns 1, don't forget to come back and tell us how exciting your life is then.

My kid is 2. We're constantly doing exciting activities around the city, visiting museums, and having a great time. So yes, it's possible to have a kid and take advantage of the city and *gasp* even have an exciting life.

Eh, your kid is 2. When your kids reach elementary school, your free time will revolve around their schedule.

Different poster here. But that happens everywhere! It's not any less likely in Ohio or Montana than in DC.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?

OP - I grew up in the midwest. I'm in my mid-30s recently married and no kids (yet). I make a lot of money, I've travelled a ton over the past 15 years, have been able to eat at amazing restaurants, drink at cool bars, go to museums, talks, parks, and have a lot of really awesome vacation spots within driving distance. On top of that, I've been able to meet really interesting people from a variety of places and in a variety of careers and have an amazingly cool and diverse group of friends. In contrast, my friends who stayed in the midwest have all been married 10 years, are friends with the same people we went to high school with, haven't seen the world, all have the same type of job/are stay at home moms, have kids in elementary school, don't really do anything on the weekends, and are quite frankly boring (and many of them have told me that they are bored). So despite the high cost of living here, I feel that I live a great life in DC that I could not get in the boring midwest.

As for salaries, most people in DC are NOT "wonks" as you say or lobbyists. Yes, we have an overabundence of lawyers and consultants here, but we also have a lot of people who get crappy staffer, non-profit or Fed salaries, too.

LMAO. Since you're on DCUM, I'm assuming you want children one day pp. When your first DC turns 1, don't forget to come back and tell us how exciting your life is then.

My kid is 2. We're constantly doing exciting activities around the city, visiting museums, and having a great time. So yes, it's possible to have a kid and take advantage of the city and *gasp* even have an exciting life.

I take my child to parks and museusms (didn't know that was exclusive to DC). But comparing a DINK lifestyle to a parent's lifestyle is apples and oranges and has no business in a "which city is better conversation".

How often do you go to museums with your child (assuming you're the op who lives in the midwest)? And how many are there in your city?

No, I'm not the OP from the midwest. I live in DC - in fact I can walk to the mall in 10 minutes. However, I would never be so smug as to think DC is the only city where I can find decent cultural attractions.

I wasn't trying to exude smugness. I think everyone's wound up by previous snarky remarks. I was asking an innocent question. I'm genuinely curious about how people outside of major metro areas live. I was wondering if the arts are a part of their everyday lives. How much access do they have to it? That kind of thing. I got snippy when the other poster called me a moron for asking the question. Not much midwest charm there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?

OP - I grew up in the midwest. I'm in my mid-30s recently married and no kids (yet). I make a lot of money, I've travelled a ton over the past 15 years, have been able to eat at amazing restaurants, drink at cool bars, go to museums, talks, parks, and have a lot of really awesome vacation spots within driving distance. On top of that, I've been able to meet really interesting people from a variety of places and in a variety of careers and have an amazingly cool and diverse group of friends. In contrast, my friends who stayed in the midwest have all been married 10 years, are friends with the same people we went to high school with, haven't seen the world, all have the same type of job/are stay at home moms, have kids in elementary school, don't really do anything on the weekends, and are quite frankly boring (and many of them have told me that they are bored). So despite the high cost of living here, I feel that I live a great life in DC that I could not get in the boring midwest.

As for salaries, most people in DC are NOT "wonks" as you say or lobbyists. Yes, we have an overabundence of lawyers and consultants here, but we also have a lot of people who get crappy staffer, non-profit or Fed salaries, too.

LMAO. Since you're on DCUM, I'm assuming you want children one day pp. When your first DC turns 1, don't forget to come back and tell us how exciting your life is then.

My kid is 2. We're constantly doing exciting activities around the city, visiting museums, and having a great time. So yes, it's possible to have a kid and take advantage of the city and *gasp* even have an exciting life.

I take my child to parks and museusms (didn't know that was exclusive to DC). But comparing a DINK lifestyle to a parent's lifestyle is apples and oranges and has no business in a "which city is better conversation".

How often do you go to museums with your child (assuming you're the op who lives in the midwest)? And how many are there in your city?

No, I'm not the OP from the midwest. I live in DC - in fact I can walk to the mall in 10 minutes. However, I would never be so smug as to think DC is the only city where I can find decent cultural attractions.

Thank you. You've partially redeemed this city for me, at least for today. Where ARE people like you?