Anonymous
06/24/2012 10:13
Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:
The emphasis on diversity does come at the expense of the learning: you would need more Chinese parents and kids for the school to teach the language and culture very effectively but nobody much at YY gives a hoot. The teachers are also polite and low key, not be confused with content.
Looks like the school chose 'diversity' over the 'benefits gained by having more bilingual kids' and for 4, 5, 6, 7 yr olds, I'll rather have the diversity - knowing and living it at a young age is a more valuable lesson for living in the U.S. and certainly trumps the benefits conferred by having more biligual and/or ethnic Chinese kids in a classroom especially for this age group.
I also know and like the new assistant principal.
The 2-way language model may work better for language and cultural knowledge and it would be a good thing for high school and later but I'll rather have the 1 way model for our child if it means he can have more diverse peers for elementary school.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 09:00
Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:To do that you'd have to have a nationwide search for leaders with vision, instead of hiring from within. The new asst principal has no experience in school leadership positions, her prof experience is teaching special education at YY, and her training was in a university where a founding parent teaches.
Another insular appointment.
This is business as usual in charters and a way to get people cheap.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 08:26
Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Another suggestion, have the PA lobby the YY board and charter board to scrap the policy of not hiring faculty and staff who have worked at other chinese immersion schools. Cross-pollination could go a long way toward educating the YY community about the myriad benefits, and logistical/political ins and outs, of 2-way immersion.
As a YY parent, you can always get on ProQuest at the Library of Congress to study up on what works elsewhere. There have been many recent studies by education experts as two-way language immersion elementary education, mainly for Spanish of course, has been catching on around the country.
As a YY parent, you can always get on ProQuest at the Library of Congress to study up on what works elsewhere. There have been many recent studies by education experts as two-way language immersion elementary education, mainly for Spanish of course, has been catching on around the country.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 08:02
Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Should the preferential treatment be given to Chinese ethnics, or should the preference be given to children who already speak mandarin. The Chinese ethnic population in this city do not overwhelmingly speak Mandarin they speak Cantonese. And, if the Cantonese families are speaking Cantonese and not Mandarin how is that a two-way immersion process.
Ask Chinese who speak both Mandarin and at least one another dialect for answers--there are more than a billion--to look for answers. Consider academic studies on the subject.
Scholars conclude that Chinese-speaking children and adults with a strong grounding in a dialect, any other dialect, can learn to speak and understand Mandarin by employing roughly 1/3 the time and effort needed by most students who don't speak Chinese.
These are not different languages, only distinct dialects using alternative pronunication and tones. This is why the government in Beijing is able to insist that schools in every province instruct kids only in Mandarin from kindergarten. The highest standards in government schools are found not in Mandarin-speaking regions, but in Shang'hai and Guangdong Province, where Shang'hai-ese and Cantonese are the main dialects respectively.
Sensible decisions can be made about dialect preferences, as has been done in setting policies governing admissions at Chinese immersion schools around the country. Study how these schools tackle the problem in a search for answers.
Ask Chinese who speak both Mandarin and at least one another dialect for answers--there are more than a billion--to look for answers. Consider academic studies on the subject.
Scholars conclude that Chinese-speaking children and adults with a strong grounding in a dialect, any other dialect, can learn to speak and understand Mandarin by employing roughly 1/3 the time and effort needed by most students who don't speak Chinese.
These are not different languages, only distinct dialects using alternative pronunication and tones. This is why the government in Beijing is able to insist that schools in every province instruct kids only in Mandarin from kindergarten. The highest standards in government schools are found not in Mandarin-speaking regions, but in Shang'hai and Guangdong Province, where Shang'hai-ese and Cantonese are the main dialects respectively.
Sensible decisions can be made about dialect preferences, as has been done in setting policies governing admissions at Chinese immersion schools around the country. Study how these schools tackle the problem in a search for answers.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 07:59
Subject: Sp or Ch language?
To do that you'd have to have a nationwide search for leaders with vision, instead of hiring from within. The new asst principal has no experience in school leadership positions, her prof experience is teaching special education at YY, and her training was in a university where a founding parent teaches.
Another insular appointment.
Another insular appointment.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 07:47
Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Stumble across one of these YY threads w/out a connection to the school and you're likely to get the impression that only Chinese parents would like to see 2 lotteries. Wrong!
There are in fact other parents who thoughtfully consider the 1-way vs. 2-way immersion model issues, arriving at the inconvenient truth that our kids are being short-changed by the charter board's myopia and political wimpiness on the subject, coupled with that of the non-Chinese admin team. I even know one who dropped in at the annual "Two-Way Bilingual Immersion and Dual Language Programs" conference in Newport Beach CA earlier this month when he was out on a business trip. http://twowaycabe.org/ Shame that neither YY's leadership nor the charter board's attended.
What you need to understand if you're on the outside looking in is that YY parents are like a group of refugees who don't feel it would be good manners to complain about the quality of the relief being provided by an aid agency, or to question how the international humanitarian system works. They're just counting their lucky stars to have escaped a "complex emergency" (diabolical IB schools).
As YY parents, we owe it to our kids, or maybe just the next generation in the city, to have more a vision, to challenge the many who do feel threatened by the savvy of the small bilingual group, to educate our leadership and community members.
There are in fact other parents who thoughtfully consider the 1-way vs. 2-way immersion model issues, arriving at the inconvenient truth that our kids are being short-changed by the charter board's myopia and political wimpiness on the subject, coupled with that of the non-Chinese admin team. I even know one who dropped in at the annual "Two-Way Bilingual Immersion and Dual Language Programs" conference in Newport Beach CA earlier this month when he was out on a business trip. http://twowaycabe.org/ Shame that neither YY's leadership nor the charter board's attended.
What you need to understand if you're on the outside looking in is that YY parents are like a group of refugees who don't feel it would be good manners to complain about the quality of the relief being provided by an aid agency, or to question how the international humanitarian system works. They're just counting their lucky stars to have escaped a "complex emergency" (diabolical IB schools).
As YY parents, we owe it to our kids, or maybe just the next generation in the city, to have more a vision, to challenge the many who do feel threatened by the savvy of the small bilingual group, to educate our leadership and community members.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 07:43
Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Just wait until Sela opens.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 07:32
Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Let's see, who should get preferential treatment? Should the preferential treatment be given to Chinese ethnics, or should the preference be given to children who already speak mandarin. The Chinese ethnic population in this city do not overwhelmingly speak Mandarin they speak Cantonese. And, if the Cantonese families are speaking Cantonese and not Mandarin how is that a two-way immersion process.
FWIW, I am a Black parent with a student at YY who have asked for a separate lottery for children who have Mandarin speaking parents. Alternatively, I have asked why the charter could not be amended to allow for older students admittance via a language assessment. I actually see the value in the two way immersion. I draw the line in simply allowing a student automatic admittance simply because a child is ethnic Chinese, but do not speak the language. What about the little Chinese girls with with adopted parents? Which lottery would they enter, speaking ink Mandarin.
And although I am not a fan of either the principal or executive director, I am offended for them by the tone of this thread. Their personalities and perhaps bedside manners are indeed lacking. However, they are qualified in their respective positions. They took a little known school and has made it known internationally. I think there is a lot of haterism going on in this thread. If any of you think you can do a better job, DC is not lacking for more good quality schools. Build your school. Get the financing and purchase your building. Build your program and market it to the prospective parents. If you are good, the parents will come. Is it possible for YY to become better? I definitely hope so, but you people are crazy.
Everyone at the school are not there because of terrible IB schools. We initially were, but from entry until now my family has moved. There are students IB for JKLM, Brent and other cap hill clusters attending YY. We are currently IB for Deal. Depending on the next couple of years and the progression of our son, as a family we will make a decision between YY's new international school, Basis, Deal or private. The bottom line is that not everyone has terrible IB choices and yet still chose YY.
FWIW, I am a Black parent with a student at YY who have asked for a separate lottery for children who have Mandarin speaking parents. Alternatively, I have asked why the charter could not be amended to allow for older students admittance via a language assessment. I actually see the value in the two way immersion. I draw the line in simply allowing a student automatic admittance simply because a child is ethnic Chinese, but do not speak the language. What about the little Chinese girls with with adopted parents? Which lottery would they enter, speaking ink Mandarin.
And although I am not a fan of either the principal or executive director, I am offended for them by the tone of this thread. Their personalities and perhaps bedside manners are indeed lacking. However, they are qualified in their respective positions. They took a little known school and has made it known internationally. I think there is a lot of haterism going on in this thread. If any of you think you can do a better job, DC is not lacking for more good quality schools. Build your school. Get the financing and purchase your building. Build your program and market it to the prospective parents. If you are good, the parents will come. Is it possible for YY to become better? I definitely hope so, but you people are crazy.
Everyone at the school are not there because of terrible IB schools. We initially were, but from entry until now my family has moved. There are students IB for JKLM, Brent and other cap hill clusters attending YY. We are currently IB for Deal. Depending on the next couple of years and the progression of our son, as a family we will make a decision between YY's new international school, Basis, Deal or private. The bottom line is that not everyone has terrible IB choices and yet still chose YY.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 07:26
Subject: Sp or Ch language?
I am not a YY parent but considering it. Personally I certainly wish there were more native speakers (any dialect) but I understand that the charter law doesn't allow preference. I suspect most YY parents also wish there were more native speakers and understand the benefits of two-way immersion, as I do. But there aren't other options for Chinese immersion in DC.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 06:39
Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
This smart post appeared on a Feb thread under the heading "The DC International Public Charter School." I'm not Chinese, but strongly suspect that this PP is correct in predicting that, a decade hence, YY will have moved on from the one-way immersion model (kids only learning the language/culture from teachers) to the "two-way" model (learning from peers and their parents, and teachers/staff) mainly because the latter is far more effective. No shortage of academic studies proving this. The YY admin team, supported by a big group of vocal non-Chinese parents won't be around forever, the DC Charter law isn't immutable, and Asian immigrants are coming into their own in this country (Pew report out this week identifying them as the fastest growing group, recently passing Latinos).
A friend contacted Bill Turque at the WaPo, who likes to wax enthusiastic about the "YY Model," steering him to this thread, and the other mentioned below. He's agreed to take a look, admitting that he hadn't considered the one-way vs. two-way model issues yet.
17:13: Dip into the long November thread about Yu Ying only having a handful of bilingual students, although there are probably hundreds in DC (if you include Chinese dialect speakers who don't speak Mandarin), for an education on the subject.
My guess is that many parents who don't speak the immersion language, or necessarily know much about the culture behind it, are threatened by those who do and, hence, don't want to see bilingual kids being given preferential treatment in the admissions process. Really too bad when you consider that academics who study bilingual immersion programs (e.g. Canadian educators looking at French programs) have found that the "two-way" immersion model, where kids learn language from one another as much as from instructors, is more effective than the "one-way" model, where kids only learn the immersion language from teachers (e.g. Yu Ying).
If you're looking for immersion language models for DC to emulate, look around the country at Chicago, NYC and LA, where language immersion charters are permitted to strive to admit 50% Native English speakers and 50% Native speakers of the immersion language. Going out of your way to admit bi and tri-lingual kids to language immersion programs is a no-brainer elsehwere, but, it seems, taboo in this city thus far, where concerns about any policy that might keep some low-income kids out of a particular charter trump all others. In a decade, things will surely be different here, with these schools hosting two lotteries, one for English speakers, one for the bi and tri-lingual kids.
A friend contacted Bill Turque at the WaPo, who likes to wax enthusiastic about the "YY Model," steering him to this thread, and the other mentioned below. He's agreed to take a look, admitting that he hadn't considered the one-way vs. two-way model issues yet.
17:13: Dip into the long November thread about Yu Ying only having a handful of bilingual students, although there are probably hundreds in DC (if you include Chinese dialect speakers who don't speak Mandarin), for an education on the subject.
My guess is that many parents who don't speak the immersion language, or necessarily know much about the culture behind it, are threatened by those who do and, hence, don't want to see bilingual kids being given preferential treatment in the admissions process. Really too bad when you consider that academics who study bilingual immersion programs (e.g. Canadian educators looking at French programs) have found that the "two-way" immersion model, where kids learn language from one another as much as from instructors, is more effective than the "one-way" model, where kids only learn the immersion language from teachers (e.g. Yu Ying).
If you're looking for immersion language models for DC to emulate, look around the country at Chicago, NYC and LA, where language immersion charters are permitted to strive to admit 50% Native English speakers and 50% Native speakers of the immersion language. Going out of your way to admit bi and tri-lingual kids to language immersion programs is a no-brainer elsehwere, but, it seems, taboo in this city thus far, where concerns about any policy that might keep some low-income kids out of a particular charter trump all others. In a decade, things will surely be different here, with these schools hosting two lotteries, one for English speakers, one for the bi and tri-lingual kids.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 04:30
Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
How do you know the SES of 700 applicants?
Easy, look at the % of FARMs kids at YY year after year. Low ndeed for DC Charter. I'm a statistician who does the FARMs lottery math in my head.
Anonymous
06/24/2012 04:24
Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
The school is "Chinese for White people" and AA, Hispanic, Asians who don't have a Chinese heritage are getting in while many Chinese families can't get a spot.
How do you know that many Chinese families can't get a spot? As has been mentioned, the school doesn't collect this data, which I don't like. You talk to a lot of DC Chinese families? We do, and know very few who apply. The conventional view in the Chinese area community IS that YY doesn't care if it has Chinese families, other than some token assimilated professional types.
I'm a YY Chinese parent who's tired of hearing about how happy we are as a group. What YY parents don't know about Chinese and Chinese-American culture, even many of those who think they know plenty, could fill not just a book, but a 3-volume set. We're not raised to emote in public, we're brought up to be polite and low key, which shouldn't be confused with happy. I'm at YY because my IB school is bad, feeling jealous of those NYC and San Fran Chinese parents at better run immersion schools than YY. The emphasis on diversity does come at the expense of the learning: you would need more Chinese parents and kids for the school to teach the language and culture very effectively but nobody much at YY gives a hoot. The teachers are also polite and low key, not be confused with content.