Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, there are many Korean children in Fairfax (specifically Annandale) who move here with relatives or even family friends. One older aunt or other female adult who is paid a salary by the families in Korea to chaperone the students, and multiple siblings, cousins, or unrelated students per house living dorm style.

OK, here's a question: How is it that they "move" here? You know it's not easy to up and move to the U.S., right? Are you suggesting they come here and become illegal for a few years? If not, on what grounds/visa status do they come and stay? You know standard tourist visa is 6 months admission only, no right to public schooling, right? I find it very hard to believe that Korean families wealthy enough to fund the child's chaperoned stay here would be willing to essentially sentence their child to living underground for a number of years.

(1) Mom goes to NVCC taking a couple of classes a semester. Renting a house in Fairfax county. Children come here to accompany mom. Dad works hard in Korea to earn money to pay for this arrangement. Let's say it costs $50k per year which is about the cost for one student to go to private school - still a bargain.

(2) You will be surprised to find out how much (Asian) people are willing to pay to get their children into a good school. How many of you know the cost for a summer session at JHU (CTY), revolving SAT prep courses? Most don't nor should they.

(3) Believe it - Koreans in this country live in better houses, drive better cars (on average). Koreans (and most all Asians) have lot more money than an average person in Fairfax County. Most importantly, Asians are so much more willing to spend on education, or (e.g.) piano lessons than the population on average (maybe not more than those 1 percenters living in Great Falls or McLean).

To qualify for NVCC student visa, you need be enrolled full-time (about five classes). Non-resident tuition cost is approximately 20K annually.

Anonymous wrote:

Citizens or permanent residents only, huh? Okay. Let me offer you a few insights into your fine immigration system that classifies people into more boxes than the holy triad of citizen, permanent resident, illegal:

1. My household, two G4 employees of international organizations, here for 10+ years, children in FCPS. (Free Loader)
2. My neighbor, programmer in H1B status, here for 5 years, children in FCPS. (He/she actually pays into the system)
3. My gym class buddy, officer at XXX embassy, A2, here for 7+ years, children in FCPS (Free Loader)
4. And thousands more just like us with children in FCPS. Yes, we are here legally. No, we don't have green cards. Some of us pay taxes. Some of don't. Yes, our children go to FCPS.(some are free loaders just like you, some are not just like your neighbor - you are the one who try to muddy the waters)

You would not be blowing up the roof if you are not a free loader, taking advantage of a system that are paid for by others. Now you are telling me you do not understand what it means by paying into the system? Tell you what, if you pay a property tax, commonwealth of Virgina Income Tax - that's how you pay into the system.

Where in hell did you get the self-righteousness that you are entitled to having someone else pay your expenses? Why don't you move to other countries and see if you can enroll your kids in their public school for free?

You know, passion is not an argument, we are having a civilized discussion here. Let's take up your definition of "paying into the system". Households like mine pay property tax but no income tax. So, do we pay into the system or not - in your definition?

As to where we got our sense of entitlement - I guess it comes from international treaties, to which your fine country is a signatory, that exempts people like us from some tax liabilities. You, too, can become a foreign service officer, move to Denmark, and pay no taxes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, there are many Korean children in Fairfax (specifically Annandale) who move here with relatives or even family friends. One older aunt or other female adult who is paid a salary by the families in Korea to chaperone the students, and multiple siblings, cousins, or unrelated students per house living dorm style.

OK, here's a question: How is it that they "move" here? You know it's not easy to up and move to the U.S., right? Are you suggesting they come here and become illegal for a few years? If not, on what grounds/visa status do they come and stay? You know standard tourist visa is 6 months admission only, no right to public schooling, right? I find it very hard to believe that Korean families wealthy enough to fund the child's chaperoned stay here would be willing to essentially sentence their child to living underground for a number of years.

(1) Mom goes to NVCC taking a couple of classes a semester. Renting a house in Fairfax county. Children come here to accompany mom. Dad works hard in Korea to earn money to pay for this arrangement. Let's say it costs $50k per year which is about the cost for one student to go to private school - still a bargain.

(2) You will be surprised to find out how much (Asian) people are willing to pay to get their children into a good school. How many of you know the cost for a summer session at JHU (CTY), revolving SAT prep courses? Most don't nor should they.

(3) Believe it - Koreans in this country live in better houses, drive better cars (on average). Koreans (and most all Asians) have lot more money than an average person in Fairfax County. Most importantly, Asians are so much more willing to spend on education, or (e.g.) piano lessons than the population on average (maybe not more than those 1 percenters living in Great Falls or McLean).

Citizens or permanent residents only, huh? Okay. Let me offer you a few insights into your fine immigration system that classifies people into more boxes than the holy triad of citizen, permanent resident, illegal:

1. My household, two G4 employees of international organizations, here for 10+ years, children in FCPS. (Free Loader)
2. My neighbor, programmer in H1B status, here for 5 years, children in FCPS. (He/she actually pays into the system)
3. My gym class buddy, officer at XXX embassy, A2, here for 7+ years, children in FCPS (Free Loader)
4. And thousands more just like us with children in FCPS. Yes, we are here legally. No, we don't have green cards. Some of us pay taxes. Some of don't. Yes, our children go to FCPS.(some are free loaders just like you, some are not just like your neighbor - you are the one who try to muddy the waters)

You would not be blowing up the roof if you are not a free loader, taking advantage of a system that are paid for by others. Now you are telling me you do not understand what it means by paying into the system? Tell you what, if you pay a property tax, commonwealth of Virgina Income Tax - that's how you pay into the system.

Where in hell did you get the self-righteousness that you are entitled to having someone else pay your expenses? Why don't you move to other countries and see if you can enroll your kids in their public school for free?

I thought it was odd that TJ was now 2/3 Asian, but then I looked up all the elite magnet schools in NYC .. many my friends attended and they are up to 70% Asian. These schools include Stuyvusant, Bronx Science, etc. So knowing that, I think this is just the way it is now unless they do something to make it more diverse. I doubt the kids coming here from abroad to go to TJ are significant in number.

Does anyone know or have personal experience with how other countries handle these situations? A military friend said that her children could go to the British public schools for free (but they did not use them because the system is so different from the US). Others have told me that in Russia and Australia they would have to pay tuition as a non citizen.
As a US citizen, which countries could I move to and get a free secondary education for my children? In which would I need to pay tuition? And what about the selective schools: the same rules or different?

Last spring, TJ announced it was hiring an English as a Second Language teacher for the students who were admitted to the school but are not able to write and read in English at suitable level. It's a little hard to imagine that American kids would find such accommodations in an elite (by admissions only) magnet school in another country.

The Korean student dorm with a female house mother is real. They move over here around 7- 8 grade.

Anonymous wrote:Actually, there are many Korean children in Fairfax (specifically Annandale) who move here with relatives or even family friends. One older aunt or other female adult who is paid a salary by the families in Korea to chaperone the students, and multiple siblings, cousins, or unrelated students per house living dorm style.

OK, here's a question: How is it that they "move" here? You know it's not easy to up and move to the U.S., right? Are you suggesting they come here and become illegal for a few years? If not, on what grounds/visa status do they come and stay? You know standard tourist visa is 6 months admission only, no right to public schooling, right? I find it very hard to believe that Korean families wealthy enough to fund the child's chaperoned stay here would be willing to essentially sentence their child to living underground for a number of years.

Anonymous wrote:PP, great that you point out that there are legal visa statuses other than PR.

IMO its not a bad idea that admissions for specialist magnet schools (TJ is the only example in NoVa) be reserved for those who pay into the system and their kids. Non-resident legal or illegal status children are welcome to go to the local school pyramid. Is it fair? No, but this trend of some Asians gaming the system is not fair either.

This is all theoretical anyway, as the current law does not allow it.

The problem with your approach is that you can never define what it means to pay into the system, and track who does it and who doesn't by visa status. By the way, "paying into the system" and "legal status" does not even necessarily go together.

Examples:

My husband and I, employed by an international organization. We pay no income taxes on primary income, no SS or FICA. Yet we own several properties in Ffx County and pay real estate taxes (which I believe fund the schools) and property taxes. No TJ for for our kids?

My neighbor, the programmer. Pays income taxes, pays SS and FICA (and may I add, is prohibited by the U.S. law from drawing from the system - even though he pays into it). Pays real estate taxes, property taxes and all taxes that the citizens pay. No TJ for his kids?

A more complicated example:

In my misguided youth, I had a night job at a restaurant waiting tables, obviously illegally because students can't legally work. All the taxes were withheld from my paychecks, I paid income taxes, SS and FICA. Legal? Not exactly. Paying into the system? You bet. No TJ for me kids?

Do you see the problem with this approach?

PP, great that you point out that there are legal visa statuses other than PR.

IMO its not a bad idea that admissions for specialist magnet schools (TJ is the only example in NoVa) be reserved for those who pay into the system and their kids. Non-resident legal or illegal status children are welcome to go to the local school pyramid. Is it fair? No, but this trend of some Asians gaming the system is not fair either.

This is all theoretical anyway, as the current law does not allow it.

Anonymous wrote:(1) TJ is a tax payer funded school. The student should be county residents with citizenship or permanent resident (i.e, green card) status. This means that their families actually pay taxes or within the documented tax base that funds the school. In the current situation, not only these foreign/migrant students do not pay out-of-state tuition, they do not pay in-state tuition, period. I can only blame the school system for creating such a situation that tax payers are taken advantage of. Can anyone from Virginia if they can go to, say Penn State or Georgia Tech, and not pay a dime to attend the school? A scholarship maybe - But our "TJ scholarship" paid for by county tax payers is automatic for anyone. This is absurd!

Citizens or permanent residents only, huh? Okay. Let me offer you a few insights into your fine immigration system that classifies people into more boxes than the holy triad of citizen, permanent resident, illegal:

1. My household, two G4 employees of international organizations, here for 10+ years, children in FCPS.
2. My neighbor, programmer in H1B status, here for 5 years, children in FCPS.
3. My gym class buddy, officer at XXX embassy, A2, here for 7+ years, children in FCPS
4. And thousands more just like us with children in FCPS. Yes, we are here legally. No, we don't have green cards. Some of us pay taxes. Some of don't. Yes, our children go to FCPS.

The irony is only certified lazy idiots would dare label others who prepare and work hard cheaters. Alas, excuses made only by the weak and inferior.

Same here. My kids are 1/2 asian, 1/2 white. I'll check whichever one makes it harder for the racists. For college, he's going to be white for sure.

The white half (me) is Irish and I know my parents never, never, ever, thought hard work and preparation was cheating. It's why my Father worked in the mines and I own my own business. I'm really glad they tought me their work ethic.

Gotta go, I have a big meeting at work tomorrow and I'll be up half the night preparing....if that's OK....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all the asians (mostly Korean and Indian) are born & raised here.

source?

My kids are Asian sometimes (they're mixed) they were born & raised here. Most of their friends are Asian and all are born here. I don't know if the publish birth places anywhere but the majority of the minority that's in the majority in TJ is born here I'm sure.

To the complainers: What is your solution? Limit yellow people? Quotas? Eliminate the merit based tests and give it to the politically correct class?

Sometimes? What are they the rest of the time?

They are mixed all the time. The authorities often don't like that so we have to pick one of the others and make them fit into some bureaucrats nice little box so sometimes we pick white (they are 50%) and sometimes we pick Asian (they are 50%). Is that OK with you?

My DC's are 1/4 white 3/4 chinese. Sometimes I check white, sometimes chinese, or asian or other. I think we will check other when it comes to applying for colleges. Will definitely not check Chinese.

I was wondering if other countries provide free education in selective programs to non-citizens and didn't find exactly what I was looking for but came across this interesting article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/oct/11/grammar-schools-tuition-private-tutor

So, the whole standardized prepping thing is happening in England as well. Interesting comment by an educator:

"Parents of five-year-olds have rung the National Grammar Schools Association (NGSA) to ask when they should start tutoring arrangements. "It is not just weeks before the 11-plus that parents are thinking about this, it is years," said Jenny Jones a former grammar school head and secretary of the association. The risk, she added, was that children passed the exams because they had been drilled to do so and then could not cope once they entered the school."

Very much like Fairfax County!