Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just going to say this, during the government shutdown I was a sub at many Charters which most have not been mentioned in this thread due to their locations and they are terrible. I did sub at a few in the Ward 4 and 5 neighborhoods and they are not so great either. I question why some of the parents of the bright students let their kids remain.

If you want to put DCPS against Charters, stop pointing out a select few Charters that UMC parents cling to.

Go sub at DCPS in those same neighborhoods and get back to us.

Yea but bottom schools are all charters.

CHARTER CSI Schools (Bottom 5%):

Bridges PCS
Friendship PCS – Online Academy
Rocketship PCS – Legacy Prep
Roots PCS
Shining Stars Montessori Academy PCS

DCPS CSI Schools (Bottom 5%):
The data shows ZERO DCPS schools were designated as CSI (Comprehensive Support and Improvement) for low performance in the 2024 cycle.
This is a significant finding. While both sectors have schools at various performance levels:

All 5 of the lowest-performing Title I schools in DC (bottom 5%) are CHARTER schools
No DCPS schools fell into the bottom 5% for the 2024-25 designation cycle.

DCPS is not working miracles but they are OVERALL doing better. They are popular because the mayor has donors to please and the privatization of public schooling is lucrative. I know most non-teachers don’t give a crap about the politics but it’s here.

Truthfully DCPS would be doing better if they listen to the experts -teachers and the like, as well as valuable stakeholders outside of donors but parents. They make sure popular things like Spanish immersion, Reggio, Montessori, project-based learning, etc. are only at a handful of DCPS schools.

Then charters can sweep in like a beacon of hope, in W7/8 especially many DCPS schools are decrepit so why not choose the shiny looking charter?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just going to say this, during the government shutdown I was a sub at many Charters which most have not been mentioned in this thread due to their locations and they are terrible. I did sub at a few in the Ward 4 and 5 neighborhoods and they are not so great either. I question why some of the parents of the bright students let their kids remain.

If you want to put DCPS against Charters, stop pointing out a select few Charters that UMC parents cling to.

Go sub at DCPS in those same neighborhoods and get back to us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again for those who missed it: Stuart-Hobson has nearly identical CAPE scores and other quantitative metrics to DCI.

DCI has slightly more kids meeting or exceeding expectations in math (60.9% to 57.2%). S-H has slightly more kids meeting or exceeding expectations in ELA (59.9% to 56.8%).

They have near identical chronic absentee rates (just under 20% for both). S-H has a better teacher retention rate (84% to 73%).

S-H is easier to get into OOB than DCI is to get into without coming from a feeder. However, it's not that hard to access a feeder for either school -- if you are willing to change schools in 3rd/4th/5th, both have feeders where you are very likely or guaranteed a spot via lottery.

The biggest advantage of DCI is the HS. For MS, there is no advantage unless the language component is very important to you. If your preferred HS is a private or application school anyway, there's no real difference.

There is a huge advantage to DCI over SH because DCI is able to meet the top students where they are and challenge them. Kids are not in classes with other kids who are 3 or 4 grade levels apart. They actually work to place kids by ability with most subjects, and the only middle school in this city that I know that uses standardized test scores as part of this placement in addition to grades and teachers recs.

So the lower performing kids are not in the same classes as the top performing kids. The top kids get more depth and challenge to meet them where they are. In addition, based on standardized test scores, the lower kids automatically get more classes in ELA, math etc.. instead of an elective so more support. It is not optional, they are placed in it.

This is how DCI is able to meet the needs of both the high and low performing students. In addition, they have high standards to be placed in the higher ability classes. For instance the highest track math class, the requirement is 90% or higher in math on standardized tests. So there are no kids in the class who should not be in it and the class can go deeper and be much more challenging. Not so with DCPS middle schools where OSSE doesn’t believe in tracking because of equity. BTW, DCI has multiple levels of math classes.

Also you should look at test scores more. I suspect lots of kids at SH are getting tutors to try to get the kids up to speed. It sounds like the tutor in this post has lots of these kids from DCPS middle schools in CH.

Lastly, the high school is even better because there are multiple official tracks for kids to actually pick where their interests lies. The school also realizes that not all kids are destined for college and has some vocational tracks that will give kids the skills they need to get jobs after high school.

This part is ironic, because SH uses standardized test scores to track students (as do EH and Jefferson per their open houses).

So does Deal. In fact, my impression is that standardized tests are how DCPS tracks students as a general matter?

That's right. I think the DCI conversations get a little weird because virtually no family at DCI has experience with DCPS (since they all went into charter immersions feeders in ECE).

This whole conversation seems like a big cope for a DCI parent trying to justify to themselves that the years and years of ES and MS commutes were "worth it."

+1. I think this is one parent who posts extensively and persistently every time DCI is mentioned. They probably have a middle school Student that hasn’t even been there a year.

Someone posted (probably you): “I feel bad for the DCI families we know who live on the Hill IB for good elementaries and decent middles, who have spent the last 8 years commuting to Brookland or NW only to be disappointed in DCI. Their kids speak a second language, which is awesome and I know they value that, but it hasn't just solved education for them. All of the DCI families we know are looking at privates right now, just like we are. Which is too bad, honestly.”

I don’t know any family that regrets learning Spanish, French or Chinese but you sure seem to think it’s worthless. I also know of no family at DCI that is “looking at privates”. Don’t feel sorry for kids at DCI. They’re doing great.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just going to say this, during the government shutdown I was a sub at many Charters which most have not been mentioned in this thread due to their locations and they are terrible. I did sub at a few in the Ward 4 and 5 neighborhoods and they are not so great either. I question why some of the parents of the bright students let their kids remain.

If you want to put DCPS against Charters, stop pointing out a select few Charters that UMC parents cling to.

Go sub at DCPS in those same neighborhoods and get back to us.

Anonymous wrote:I'm just going to say this, during the government shutdown I was a sub at many Charters which most have not been mentioned in this thread due to their locations and they are terrible. I did sub at a few in the Ward 4 and 5 neighborhoods and they are not so great either. I question why some of the parents of the bright students let their kids remain.

If you want to put DCPS against Charters, stop pointing out a select few Charters that UMC parents cling to.

Anonymous wrote:Different poster: Stuart Hobson had a pretty long waitlist last year. It made substantially fewer OOB offers than Hardy. It is a dcps neighborhood school that serves the eastern side of town. I think it id not worth it to commute to DCI from that side of town, unless or even if you learning a second language is very important to you, someone in your family lives of works in that direction, of you feel that you absolutely must lock in a high school option.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again for those who missed it: Stuart-Hobson has nearly identical CAPE scores and other quantitative metrics to DCI.

DCI has slightly more kids meeting or exceeding expectations in math (60.9% to 57.2%). S-H has slightly more kids meeting or exceeding expectations in ELA (59.9% to 56.8%).

They have near identical chronic absentee rates (just under 20% for both). S-H has a better teacher retention rate (84% to 73%).

S-H is easier to get into OOB than DCI is to get into without coming from a feeder. However, it's not that hard to access a feeder for either school -- if you are willing to change schools in 3rd/4th/5th, both have feeders where you are very likely or guaranteed a spot via lottery.

The biggest advantage of DCI is the HS. For MS, there is no advantage unless the language component is very important to you. If your preferred HS is a private or application school anyway, there's no real difference.

There is a huge advantage to DCI over SH because DCI is able to meet the top students where they are and challenge them. Kids are not in classes with other kids who are 3 or 4 grade levels apart. They actually work to place kids by ability with most subjects, and the only middle school in this city that I know that uses standardized test scores as part of this placement in addition to grades and teachers recs.

So the lower performing kids are not in the same classes as the top performing kids. The top kids get more depth and challenge to meet them where they are. In addition, based on standardized test scores, the lower kids automatically get more classes in ELA, math etc.. instead of an elective so more support. It is not optional, they are placed in it.

This is how DCI is able to meet the needs of both the high and low performing students. In addition, they have high standards to be placed in the higher ability classes. For instance the highest track math class, the requirement is 90% or higher in math on standardized tests. So there are no kids in the class who should not be in it and the class can go deeper and be much more challenging. Not so with DCPS middle schools where OSSE doesn’t believe in tracking because of equity. BTW, DCI has multiple levels of math classes.

Also you should look at test scores more. I suspect lots of kids at SH are getting tutors to try to get the kids up to speed. It sounds like the tutor in this post has lots of these kids from DCPS middle schools in CH.

Lastly, the high school is even better because there are multiple official tracks for kids to actually pick where their interests lies. The school also realizes that not all kids are destined for college and has some vocational tracks that will give kids the skills they need to get jobs after high school.

This part is ironic, because SH uses standardized test scores to track students (as do EH and Jefferson per their open houses).

The only track that DCPS middle schools do is math and at these schools like the ones at CH the higher track is just grade level. It’s not like the track is as advanced and kids are ready to take AP Cal by 10th grade.

Plus DCI uses standardized test scores to place in many of the other subjects too. That is not happening in DCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again for those who missed it: Stuart-Hobson has nearly identical CAPE scores and other quantitative metrics to DCI.

DCI has slightly more kids meeting or exceeding expectations in math (60.9% to 57.2%). S-H has slightly more kids meeting or exceeding expectations in ELA (59.9% to 56.8%).

They have near identical chronic absentee rates (just under 20% for both). S-H has a better teacher retention rate (84% to 73%).

S-H is easier to get into OOB than DCI is to get into without coming from a feeder. However, it's not that hard to access a feeder for either school -- if you are willing to change schools in 3rd/4th/5th, both have feeders where you are very likely or guaranteed a spot via lottery.

The biggest advantage of DCI is the HS. For MS, there is no advantage unless the language component is very important to you. If your preferred HS is a private or application school anyway, there's no real difference.

There is a huge advantage to DCI over SH because DCI is able to meet the top students where they are and challenge them. Kids are not in classes with other kids who are 3 or 4 grade levels apart. They actually work to place kids by ability with most subjects, and the only middle school in this city that I know that uses standardized test scores as part of this placement in addition to grades and teachers recs.

So the lower performing kids are not in the same classes as the top performing kids. The top kids get more depth and challenge to meet them where they are. In addition, based on standardized test scores, the lower kids automatically get more classes in ELA, math etc.. instead of an elective so more support. It is not optional, they are placed in it.

This is how DCI is able to meet the needs of both the high and low performing students. In addition, they have high standards to be placed in the higher ability classes. For instance the highest track math class, the requirement is 90% or higher in math on standardized tests. So there are no kids in the class who should not be in it and the class can go deeper and be much more challenging. Not so with DCPS middle schools where OSSE doesn’t believe in tracking because of equity. BTW, DCI has multiple levels of math classes.

Also you should look at test scores more. I suspect lots of kids at SH are getting tutors to try to get the kids up to speed. It sounds like the tutor in this post has lots of these kids from DCPS middle schools in CH.

Lastly, the high school is even better because there are multiple official tracks for kids to actually pick where their interests lies. The school also realizes that not all kids are destined for college and has some vocational tracks that will give kids the skills they need to get jobs after high school.

This part is ironic, because SH uses standardized test scores to track students (as do EH and Jefferson per their open houses).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the tutor from above. I will say I also tutor kids who are EXCELLENT and want further enrichment. So just because I tutor at your school doesn’t necessarily mean the kids are behind. But generally, sadly, dcps middle schools are not producing kids who are doing so well that they need enrichment, they’re producing kids who are so behind their parents notice and are rightly worried.

This is a confusing comment, especially when linked with your last one. And I say that as someone with serious reservations about our IB DCPS middle on the Hill.

First, what subject(s) do you tutor? If it's foreign language you need to state that up front because of course DCI is going to have kids kicking butt in foreign language and DCPS middle schools will have kids far behind that. Even kids at Deal and Hardy would be far behind DCI kids in foreign language. A lot of your comments have fixated on the foreign language opportunities at DCI, which I agree are pretty much the best in the city for public schools, but most parents are far less focused on foreign language than on core subjects like math and ELA.

Second, are you saying that the kids you tutor at DCI are all "EXCELLENT" and only getting tutoring for further enrichment, and the kids you tutor at Hill middle schools are all behind and their parents are hiring you because they are worried? That seems to be the implication but if so, just say that.

Third, how many kids do you tutor? Which Hill schools have you tutored kids at? All three? all three within the last couple years?

I ask because I know a couple very impressive students at S-H (I also know many mediocre students there) and I know a couple mediocre kids at DCI (I also know of very talented kids there). Because DCI is a charter that most people get into via immersion charters, I am certain DCI has more well-resourced kids than S-H and thus probably has more kids likely to have parents hiring tutors just to push and enrich. But when I look at the test scores at the two schools, it doesn't look like DCI is blowing S-H out of the water. In fact they look comparable. Given that and my personal knowledge of kids at both schools, I'm not sure how your observation that only DCI has excellent kids ready for enrichment while ALL the Hill DCPS kids you tutor are behind makes sense. It is contrary to test scores and personal observation. There may in fact be more kids excelling at DCI but it's not the sharp dichotomy you describe. Is it possible that your exposure is too limited to draw these kinds of conclusions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not heard good things about DCI. Their test scores are better than other public MS and HS in the city, but you would expect that based on demographics. From parents who actually have kids there, I have heard that there are staffing issues, the kids spend too much time on Chromebooks, and that beyond the language opportunities which of course are highly valued by families who attend DCI charters, people are not very impressed. There is a perception it is better than their IB MS and HS, but we are talking about families who live in Brookland, LeDroit Parks etc. -- they don't have good IB options for elementary school, much less MS and HS.

As for Capitol Hill families (of which we are one), the main advantage of DCI is the HS option, given how weak Eastern continues to be. However, for MS, DCI seems no better than Stuart-Hobson, beyond the language options. If you look at the "growth to proficiency" ratings on the report card site, S-H and DCI have similar scores. For us, S-H is much closer and offers my kids the option of attending school with neighbors, and participating in activities with kids they've known since they were in kindergarten. S-H has the clear edge.

Neither of these school is amazing, and there are both charter and DCPS options that are worse (I wouldn't send my kid to Two Rivers Young or to Wheatley Education Campus for middle, for instance).

You can find better test scores at upper NW schools though for white and students who are not economically disadvantaged, Deal and Hardy don't do much better -- they just have smaller percentages of students who are economically disadvantaged.

I don't say this to boost S-H -- we are looking at privates for MS and if we get into Latin for 5th we're going there (on the fence about BASIS, I think I'm leaning towards S-H but I don't know, it's a tough choice). Latin is appealing to me because I really like their HS program and like the overall educational approach which is academically challenging but not insanely intense, with good balance. But I don't look at DCI and wish we'd sent our kids to one of the immersion characters we did in fact get into for PK, which would have required long commutes and where I have some reluctance about foundational academics.

So from my perspective as a DC parent, charters have no real advantage over DCPS. There are some good charters but they aren't light years better than our DCPS option -- they are about the same for elementary and middle and then better for HS but not light years better.

I feel bad for the DCI families we know who live on the Hill IB for good elementaries and decent middles, who have spent the last 8 years commuting to Brookland or NW only to be disappointed in DCI. Their kids speak a second language, which is awesome and I know they value that, but it hasn't just solved education for them. All of the DCI families we know are looking at privates right now, just like we are. Which is too bad, honestly.

Public education in DC is hard.

I don’t believe anyone is really looking at privates as it is just cheaper to move and/or get a tutor or Mathnesium/Kumon etc. From my experience, kids at dci can learn 3 languages, not just 2. Math and stem is very strong at DCI, and it offers a strong arts program as well. Plus it has a great feeder with IB Diploma. I don’t know a single family at dci who is “disappointed” but I’m sure they exist. I tutor a lot of kids around the city and the language program at dci is excellent. You can take multiple classes in a foreign language, not just language classes. I do think dci caters to the top and bottom and ignores the middle. In contrast, Latin is great for a middle of the road kid academically. Not too tough but good enough. I heard amazing things about what they can do for the kids at the bottom. They’re doing some great things. Basis is great academically not great for anything else IMHO. I don’t know anything about Hill elementary schools really but I do know a ton about Hill middle schools sadly. I would not characterize them as decent. Every family I tutor is (rightly) concerned that their child is not getting the education they need. If you’re worried about “foundational academics” i would be really worried about any of the Hill middle schools. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:Im the tutor from above. I will say I also tutor kids who are EXCELLENT and want further enrichment. So just because I tutor at your school doesn’t necessarily mean the kids are behind. But generally, sadly, dcps middle schools are not producing kids who are doing so well that they need enrichment, they’re producing kids who are so behind their parents notice and are rightly worried.