Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fascinating cultural difference for me. It was a huge event when our parents, or other relatives, visited. We never expected them to do anything, beyond visiting. I can't imagine being so angry and hurt that they came to visit a newborn for two hours.

I can understand OP is hurt because she is comparing her parents to her in-laws, so she feels like her parents are letting her down. But, as they say, comparison is the thief of joy.

You are saying your would only visit your newborn grandkids for two hours then go on vacation for a week? How would that make your children feel?

Like their parents were people with independent lives who loved them enough to come to the hospital when their kids were born. You’re a greedy whiner. Are you looking forward to being a full time domestic servant for your old children the minute they have kids, saving all your money to give to them? I sure hope so.

Grandparents benefit their grandkids and grandkids benefit grandparents. Active and involved grandparents live longer and face slower decline (google the scientific studies). have you heard of the grandmother effect? Parenthood with grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins, etc. is the natural way of life, in a societies that don’t aim to create a worker bee out of every person for as long as humanly possible. Don’t make OP feel crazy because she feels something is off. Maybe the grandparents never really liked parenting either or they bought into the self-centered lifestyle that seems prevalent in this thread.

100% agree with this. Being involved in your grandkids lives does not mean engaging in unpaid childcare or sacrificing your own happiness. If you were an engaged and committed parent, loving and investing in your grandkids will feel like a natural and rewarding extension of that experience. Supporting the children you raised in being parents themselves (not doing it for them but being supportive and present in their lives as they enter that stage) is also a natural extension of a positive parent-child relationship.

When I see grandparents who are checked out and disinterested in their grandchildren, often saying things like "I already raised my kids, it's your turn," or prioritizing non-family relationships over relationships with kids and grandkids, I find these are also often people who didn't enjoy parenting in the first place. They talk about grandkids as a way to punish or get back at their own kids for having been... kids. With needs. They viewed parenting as thankless and unrewarding and want their children to have a similarly thankless and unrewarding experience so that they may feel validated. It's a pettiness and smallness that likely stems from having kids out of obligation and without passion or commitment. It is immaturity and selfishness.

Also the involved grandparents I know also all have hobbies and their own lives. They go on vacations (without kids or grandkids), have other friends, take care of their health, etc. And their kids also facilitate this, caring for them and providing help. And as their grandkids get older, they also provide this helper role. When everyone is self-aware and secure, and the relationships are functional, none of this feels like work or obligation. It's just caring for those who mean the most to you.

OP is fortunate to have that in her ILs, but I'm sure it's sad to learn her own parents/family isn't functional in that way. That would make me sad too. But all she can do is embrace the involved grandparents and seek to create a similar pattern between her and her kids so that they will not experience that same sadness or disappointment later on.

I do not expect family whom I invite to visit me to cook or clean and I don't offer to clean or cook when invited to their homes. If you are incapable of taking care of your children or your house then hire help. If you can't afford help then get off your entitled derriere hand clean your own house and take care of your own children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fascinating cultural difference for me. It was a huge event when our parents, or other relatives, visited. We never expected them to do anything, beyond visiting. I can't imagine being so angry and hurt that they came to visit a newborn for two hours.

I can understand OP is hurt because she is comparing her parents to her in-laws, so she feels like her parents are letting her down. But, as they say, comparison is the thief of joy.

You are saying your would only visit your newborn grandkids for two hours then go on vacation for a week? How would that make your children feel?

Like their parents were people with independent lives who loved them enough to come to the hospital when their kids were born. You’re a greedy whiner. Are you looking forward to being a full time domestic servant for your old children the minute they have kids, saving all your money to give to them? I sure hope so.

Yes, I am looking forward to helping out with the grandkids. I will gladly do this and why else would I save money other than for my children. I am already saving for their downpayment on their first house and planning to provide them with a sizable inheritance. I am not expecting my parents to be anything like my in laws (or give me any money) but at least pretend like you care about the grandkids. They literally only visited the newborn for 2 hours then left immediately for a week long vacation. They could have spent more time with their first grandchild but they chose not too because it was apparently more important for them to take a week long vacation than bond with their first grandchild. That is why I’m so irritated.

You are selfish. Parents to an adult aren’t supposed to be useful. They are supposed to be kind, loving and supportive. You sound like a user.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2 hours is plenty for a new-born! Most visits at that age are way shorter as the parents want to bond with their baby. Looks like you yourself are trying to avoid your baby like a plague, hoping that someone else changes their diapers and deals with them.

American women brainwashed to believe that a mother shouldn’t be cared for after she gives birth.

Don't have children if you can't afford to pay for help. Free child care from grandparents is a thing of the long ago past .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Relationships built on “usefulness” are not good relationships. Accusing your of using your kids for photographs and nothing more is more telling of your character than theirs. You sound spoiled and immature, unable to provide for your own kids.

The grandparents are building their relationship based on usefulness. They only come to take photos to stay a couple of hours a year and pretend they have a good relationship. They weigh each hour they spend on how useful it is to their life. OP feels used which is probably why she's saying they are useless. They are both using each other I suppose because there is no love to take the place. When you love someone relationship aren't this transactional and no one feels used because each person respects the boundaries someone sets and in the space in between they are there to love, not solely to get something out of the interaction.

OP called her parents useless because they are not taking care of her kids and giving her money.

No I called them useless for being terrible grandparents and not giving a crap about their grandkids. They stay at my house for 3 days, spend less than a hour a day with the grandkids, then leave for a weeklong vacation immediately after. They have plenty of time for weeklong vacations. Clearly the grandkids are an afterthought and they don’t care about them.

Maybe they simply cannot stand being around you.

Anonymous wrote:I’m really struggling here because my parents suck, but the kids other set of grandparents are amazing. My in-laws are helping us with the grandkids every way possible and they constantly visiting to help take care of our kids. They absolutely adore the grandkids, and provide significant financial support. They are willing to do anything to help us and support the grandkids. However, my parents are basically useless and they provide no help, but my parents are somehow under the impression that they are great grandparents. They only come to visit for short trips and don’t actually help much with taking care of the kids. My parents basically just want pictures to show their friends. After my baby was born my dad booked a hotel that was no where near where I was staying, and only visited the kids for 3 hours over the weekend. He spent most of the time traveling, and he even mentioned he is actually going on a week long vacation immediately after visiting my kids. This made me very angry because he clearly doesn’t prioritize the grandkids at all. My mother is not much better and she basically comes to visit only to see them without actually considering when we need really help. This situation has been very frustrating because my side of family contributes almost nothing to help with the grandkids and my in-laws are absolutely amazing people. The in-laws are very nice to me, but they are quite annoyed that my family does not even try to be helpful. The in-laws have never explicitly told me this, but I can tell they dislike my parents. The worst part of this situation is I completely understand why they feel this way because I would also dislike my kids in-laws if they acted similarly to my parents. It’s honestly gotten to the point where I’m not sure if I want them to visit at all because it just makes me angry how much they suck as grandparents.

Do you know what a paragraph is? You sound pathetic. Adults who choose to have children should have an idea of what having children changed your life! You and your DH are lazy and clueless.

It was your choice to have children so why do you need help? Your parents owe you zip for child care. Your in-laws are helping you so stop whining.

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to add that I have my adult child visiting in a few weeks and I'm planning to take them wine tasting to nearby wineries. I'll not plan to have them fix my faucet or clean my basement. I want them to come back to visit.

Good for you. I hope they spend their time with you telling you that they only have the afternoon and then have to hop off to meet other people in the evening, are on their phone half the time during the visit, and oh btw they can only spend Saturday with you because Sunday they booked a trip for a week with a friend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fascinating cultural difference for me. It was a huge event when our parents, or other relatives, visited. We never expected them to do anything, beyond visiting. I can't imagine being so angry and hurt that they came to visit a newborn for two hours.

I can understand OP is hurt because she is comparing her parents to her in-laws, so she feels like her parents are letting her down. But, as they say, comparison is the thief of joy.

You are saying your would only visit your newborn grandkids for two hours then go on vacation for a week? How would that make your children feel?

Like their parents were people with independent lives who loved them enough to come to the hospital when their kids were born. You’re a greedy whiner. Are you looking forward to being a full time domestic servant for your old children the minute they have kids, saving all your money to give to them? I sure hope so.

Grandparents benefit their grandkids and grandkids benefit grandparents. Active and involved grandparents live longer and face slower decline (google the scientific studies). have you heard of the grandmother effect? Parenthood with grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins, etc. is the natural way of life, in a societies that don’t aim to create a worker bee out of every person for as long as humanly possible. Don’t make OP feel crazy because she feels something is off. Maybe the grandparents never really liked parenting either or they bought into the self-centered lifestyle that seems prevalent in this thread.

But where do the parents fit in your system? Here the OP is complaining that her parents don't cook nor clean, didn't stay to take care of her children for a 2-week business trip, didn't stay to take care of her after birth... and in fact the ILs are cooking and cleaning and changing diapers because she's busy working. Seems that she expects the grandmothers to do the mother's job. And what does the father do? Not once is the father mentioned in this thread, it's as if he doesn't exist, just his parents who are busy hovering over everybody. It's as if the parents want someone else to do their job, so that they'd not have to do it.

I don't really think it works this way. I think in healthy involved families people want to be together. As a result they want to help out because that's what we do as humans. We might come by every Sunday and spend the day talking and cooking and playing some with the kids. Living life. Chores are a part of it I assume but also just hanging out. The idea is that you come and you spend the day with them or you are available 2 nights a week and you come and you spend dinner with your family. Or your family with the baby comes to you and does the same. Maybe they are helping you with your faucet or something. Help go through the basement clutter. What is so weird to me is that people of any age want to spend life with others but don't ever want to do any work with each other. Isn't work just part of life that can be enjoyed by doing it together? Are we so warped that work is the enemy after living in a capitalistic society that we can't see this basic reality? So we all do our own work and never spend time together. Makes sense in a warped society I guess.

Ideally adults should be self-sufficient. What you describe might somewhat work, if people all get along, if you live near-by in the same village/town/city and are enmeshed/co-dependent. Most people don't, they live at a distance and see each other infrequently. They live far from each other because that's where their work, interests, schooling, spouse has taken them. Meaning, when you then see each other (say 2-3 times a year), you don't want to do another person's household chores. Also, you sound young. By middle-age most people get tired of solving other people's problems as they have their own plates full. An adult who constantly needs help with basic daily functioning has not really matured and instead of help (i.e. enabling) may need mental health counseling or other help to actually teach those chores (like we teach kids how to brush their teeth). I personally don't have time nor desire to go through my adult child's basement clutter and I don't know anyone who does. I also don't expect my adult child to deal with my basement clutter, and if I would ask, they would certainly refuse. I'm also just about to call a repairman to fix my faucet as none of us a plumbers. Most people I know want to spend time pleasantly over a good meal and laughs, maybe some sightseeing and travel, and certainly not cleaning their relative's basement over the weekend. In fact you sound completely ridiculous with your expectations.

I was thinking about the elderly parent needing clutter cleanup. You sound very young and elitest. Most people don't have the money to constantly hire someone to do things. That's why poorer families are more enmeshed. They don't have the funds to spend all of their time with family sightseeing and traveling and also call others to help with with every task.

I'm going to add that I have my adult child visiting in a few weeks and I'm planning to take them wine tasting to nearby wineries. I'll not plan to have them fix my faucet or clean my basement. I want them to come back to visit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fascinating cultural difference for me. It was a huge event when our parents, or other relatives, visited. We never expected them to do anything, beyond visiting. I can't imagine being so angry and hurt that they came to visit a newborn for two hours.

I can understand OP is hurt because she is comparing her parents to her in-laws, so she feels like her parents are letting her down. But, as they say, comparison is the thief of joy.

You are saying your would only visit your newborn grandkids for two hours then go on vacation for a week? How would that make your children feel?

Like their parents were people with independent lives who loved them enough to come to the hospital when their kids were born. You’re a greedy whiner. Are you looking forward to being a full time domestic servant for your old children the minute they have kids, saving all your money to give to them? I sure hope so.

Grandparents benefit their grandkids and grandkids benefit grandparents. Active and involved grandparents live longer and face slower decline (google the scientific studies). have you heard of the grandmother effect? Parenthood with grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins, etc. is the natural way of life, in a societies that don’t aim to create a worker bee out of every person for as long as humanly possible. Don’t make OP feel crazy because she feels something is off. Maybe the grandparents never really liked parenting either or they bought into the self-centered lifestyle that seems prevalent in this thread.

But where do the parents fit in your system? Here the OP is complaining that her parents don't cook nor clean, didn't stay to take care of her children for a 2-week business trip, didn't stay to take care of her after birth... and in fact the ILs are cooking and cleaning and changing diapers because she's busy working. Seems that she expects the grandmothers to do the mother's job. And what does the father do? Not once is the father mentioned in this thread, it's as if he doesn't exist, just his parents who are busy hovering over everybody. It's as if the parents want someone else to do their job, so that they'd not have to do it.

I don't really think it works this way. I think in healthy involved families people want to be together. As a result they want to help out because that's what we do as humans. We might come by every Sunday and spend the day talking and cooking and playing some with the kids. Living life. Chores are a part of it I assume but also just hanging out. The idea is that you come and you spend the day with them or you are available 2 nights a week and you come and you spend dinner with your family. Or your family with the baby comes to you and does the same. Maybe they are helping you with your faucet or something. Help go through the basement clutter. What is so weird to me is that people of any age want to spend life with others but don't ever want to do any work with each other. Isn't work just part of life that can be enjoyed by doing it together? Are we so warped that work is the enemy after living in a capitalistic society that we can't see this basic reality? So we all do our own work and never spend time together. Makes sense in a warped society I guess.

Ideally adults should be self-sufficient. What you describe might somewhat work, if people all get along, if you live near-by in the same village/town/city and are enmeshed/co-dependent. Most people don't, they live at a distance and see each other infrequently. They live far from each other because that's where their work, interests, schooling, spouse has taken them. Meaning, when you then see each other (say 2-3 times a year), you don't want to do another person's household chores. Also, you sound young. By middle-age most people get tired of solving other people's problems as they have their own plates full. An adult who constantly needs help with basic daily functioning has not really matured and instead of help (i.e. enabling) may need mental health counseling or other help to actually teach those chores (like we teach kids how to brush their teeth). I personally don't have time nor desire to go through my adult child's basement clutter and I don't know anyone who does. I also don't expect my adult child to deal with my basement clutter, and if I would ask, they would certainly refuse. I'm also just about to call a repairman to fix my faucet as none of us a plumbers. Most people I know want to spend time pleasantly over a good meal and laughs, maybe some sightseeing and travel, and certainly not cleaning their relative's basement over the weekend. In fact you sound completely ridiculous with your expectations.

Ideally the OP and the parents should sit down and discuss how much they want to be involved in each other's lives and then when they are with each other the topic and effort shouldn't be about something else that is perceived to be more pleasurable and the time with family just a duty or a means to some other end. If you constantly act like you are being taken advantaged of and have that mindset the relationship will fail.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fascinating cultural difference for me. It was a huge event when our parents, or other relatives, visited. We never expected them to do anything, beyond visiting. I can't imagine being so angry and hurt that they came to visit a newborn for two hours.

I can understand OP is hurt because she is comparing her parents to her in-laws, so she feels like her parents are letting her down. But, as they say, comparison is the thief of joy.

You are saying your would only visit your newborn grandkids for two hours then go on vacation for a week? How would that make your children feel?

Like their parents were people with independent lives who loved them enough to come to the hospital when their kids were born. You’re a greedy whiner. Are you looking forward to being a full time domestic servant for your old children the minute they have kids, saving all your money to give to them? I sure hope so.

Grandparents benefit their grandkids and grandkids benefit grandparents. Active and involved grandparents live longer and face slower decline (google the scientific studies). have you heard of the grandmother effect? Parenthood with grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins, etc. is the natural way of life, in a societies that don’t aim to create a worker bee out of every person for as long as humanly possible. Don’t make OP feel crazy because she feels something is off. Maybe the grandparents never really liked parenting either or they bought into the self-centered lifestyle that seems prevalent in this thread.

But where do the parents fit in your system? Here the OP is complaining that her parents don't cook nor clean, didn't stay to take care of her children for a 2-week business trip, didn't stay to take care of her after birth... and in fact the ILs are cooking and cleaning and changing diapers because she's busy working. Seems that she expects the grandmothers to do the mother's job. And what does the father do? Not once is the father mentioned in this thread, it's as if he doesn't exist, just his parents who are busy hovering over everybody. It's as if the parents want someone else to do their job, so that they'd not have to do it.

I don't really think it works this way. I think in healthy involved families people want to be together. As a result they want to help out because that's what we do as humans. We might come by every Sunday and spend the day talking and cooking and playing some with the kids. Living life. Chores are a part of it I assume but also just hanging out. The idea is that you come and you spend the day with them or you are available 2 nights a week and you come and you spend dinner with your family. Or your family with the baby comes to you and does the same. Maybe they are helping you with your faucet or something. Help go through the basement clutter. What is so weird to me is that people of any age want to spend life with others but don't ever want to do any work with each other. Isn't work just part of life that can be enjoyed by doing it together? Are we so warped that work is the enemy after living in a capitalistic society that we can't see this basic reality? So we all do our own work and never spend time together. Makes sense in a warped society I guess.

Anonymous wrote:

Grandparents benefit their grandkids and grandkids benefit grandparents. Active and involved grandparents live longer and face slower decline (google the scientific studies). have you heard of the grandmother effect? Parenthood with grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins, etc. is the natural way of life, in a societies that don’t aim to create a worker bee out of every person for as long as humanly possible. Don’t make OP feel crazy because she feels something is off. Maybe the grandparents never really liked parenting either or they bought into the self-centered lifestyle that seems prevalent in this thread.

+ It's the OP who is self-centered here.