Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are any worth it for pre med. or are the top ones only worth it for the pipeline to wall street / finance? son looking for pre-med and just not sure if a top 20 school makes a difference?

We chose it, but most don’t due to cost and that’s very fair. No regrets, it’s opened doors to make a really compelling resume for med school. They are so shooting for a top med school also and there is correlation, some I’ll just say it’s that they’d be to students anywhere and have same result though.

MD who has a med admissions consulting firm on the side, and experience in top-5 med admissions committee, as does one of my partners.
The T20ish unis/T5 LACs or so is a significant leg up for top MD programs and MD admissions in general, though whether that is correlation or causation is murky. These schools are far overrepresented among T20 med school students. Consider though these elite undergrad programs are the same ones that historically have the highest SAT ranges (well over half of the student body scoring 98%ile or higher on SAT when tests were required), and consequently list median MCAT scores of 516-518 among medical school applicants in a given year. They have upwards of 90% of applicants accepted to any med school and have "feeder" to Top Med schools reputation, many with over 25% of their admitted applicants landing at top-name research med schools. Med schools do use undergrad school (and program of study) as a factor in admissions, but it is not nearly as large as stem GPA and MCAT. The students at these top programs who use consultants are often below average at their school, 3.4-3.6 when the average undergrad GPA is 3.75-3.85 at elites. They often seek outside help because they do not like the advice of premed advising(do a postbacc or MS and get the stem grades up). Premed advising rarely gatekeeps at top schools anymore, as parents gave extreme pushback in the early 2010s. Parents involved in med apps is relatively new but it has massively affected undergraduate approach compared to pre-2000, when aggressive weeding out was common and expected.
Our advice is often the same as premed advising, but offers more hand-holding on the details of individualized plans. Top20ish students have much more success than 3.4-3.6 students from below T60 or so, but the MCATs are usually 512-514 rather than below 500. We get a lot of UVA students: they hang somewhere in the middle. The below-T60 group does not get into med school anywhere, nor do most of their 3.9 counterparts from the same undergrad, because they usually have 508-510. The age old question is do elite schools help with MCAT? Maybe. The science exams tend to be application of knowledge long-answer problem solving tests rather than almost entirely fill in the blank/multiple choice. I suspect that the more important difference is elite students are more likely to be students who have excellent study habits, are fast learners and excel on std tests.
Just my 2c, from years of application cycles.

Thank you for this, very interesting read. May I please ask a question on coursework. I read in a premed group where the med school advising and consensus is to not take AP credits and take intro bio and chem in college for pre-req for strong sGPA. At my child’s school this is really rare, and they place out of into and take upper level bio classes to satisfy and start in orgo 1 spring of freshman year. I know the prestige is one issue, but is rigor factor in at all when comparing sGPA’s? As that is also going to be a difference among schools I’d think as to what courses are norms. Really appreciate if you have time to answer, I couldn’t ask in group or I’d get annihilated as all say to take the intro classes.

DP: Taking AP courses in STEM in HS but repeating them for an "easy A" in college is done at many many universities with kids who are premed. Why not take an easy A versus replacing Bio 101 with Bio 325? It's been a know tactic for many years. Because your overall GPA and Prerequisite GPA does matter a lot for admissions to medical school

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are any worth it for pre med. or are the top ones only worth it for the pipeline to wall street / finance? son looking for pre-med and just not sure if a top 20 school makes a difference?

We chose it, but most don’t due to cost and that’s very fair. No regrets, it’s opened doors to make a really compelling resume for med school. They are so shooting for a top med school also and there is correlation, some I’ll just say it’s that they’d be to students anywhere and have same result though.

MD who has a med admissions consulting firm on the side, and experience in top-5 med admissions committee, as does one of my partners.
The T20ish unis/T5 LACs or so is a significant leg up for top MD programs and MD admissions in general, though whether that is correlation or causation is murky. These schools are far overrepresented among T20 med school students. Consider though these elite undergrad programs are the same ones that historically have the highest SAT ranges (well over half of the student body scoring 98%ile or higher on SAT when tests were required), and consequently list median MCAT scores of 516-518 among medical school applicants in a given year. They have upwards of 90% of applicants accepted to any med school and have "feeder" to Top Med schools reputation, many with over 25% of their admitted applicants landing at top-name research med schools. Med schools do use undergrad school (and program of study) as a factor in admissions, but it is not nearly as large as stem GPA and MCAT. The students at these top programs who use consultants are often below average at their school, 3.4-3.6 when the average undergrad GPA is 3.75-3.85 at elites. They often seek outside help because they do not like the advice of premed advising(do a postbacc or MS and get the stem grades up). Premed advising rarely gatekeeps at top schools anymore, as parents gave extreme pushback in the early 2010s. Parents involved in med apps is relatively new but it has massively affected undergraduate approach compared to pre-2000, when aggressive weeding out was common and expected.
Our advice is often the same as premed advising, but offers more hand-holding on the details of individualized plans. Top20ish students have much more success than 3.4-3.6 students from below T60 or so, but the MCATs are usually 512-514 rather than below 500. We get a lot of UVA students: they hang somewhere in the middle. The below-T60 group does not get into med school anywhere, nor do most of their 3.9 counterparts from the same undergrad, because they usually have 508-510. The age old question is do elite schools help with MCAT? Maybe. The science exams tend to be application of knowledge long-answer problem solving tests rather than almost entirely fill in the blank/multiple choice. I suspect that the more important difference is elite students are more likely to be students who have excellent study habits, are fast learners and excel on std tests.
Just my 2c, from years of application cycles.

Thank you for this, very interesting read. May I please ask a question on coursework. I read in a premed group where the med school advising and consensus is to not take AP credits and take intro bio and chem in college for pre-req for strong sGPA. At my child’s school this is really rare, and they place out of into and take upper level bio classes to satisfy and start in orgo 1 spring of freshman year. I know the prestige is one issue, but is rigor factor in at all when comparing sGPA’s? As that is also going to be a difference among schools I’d think as to what courses are norms. Really appreciate if you have time to answer, I couldn’t ask in group or I’d get annihilated as all say to take the intro classes.

DP: Taking AP courses in STEM in HS but repeating them for an "easy A" in college is done at many many universities with kids who are premed. Why not take an easy A versus replacing Bio 101 with Bio 325? It's been a know tactic for many years. Because your overall GPA and Prerequisite GPA does matter a lot for admissions to medical school

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are any worth it for pre med. or are the top ones only worth it for the pipeline to wall street / finance? son looking for pre-med and just not sure if a top 20 school makes a difference?

We chose it, but most don’t due to cost and that’s very fair. No regrets, it’s opened doors to make a really compelling resume for med school. They are so shooting for a top med school also and there is correlation, some I’ll just say it’s that they’d be to students anywhere and have same result though.

MD who has a med admissions consulting firm on the side, and experience in top-5 med admissions committee, as does one of my partners.
The T20ish unis/T5 LACs or so is a significant leg up for top MD programs and MD admissions in general, though whether that is correlation or causation is murky. These schools are far overrepresented among T20 med school students. Consider though these elite undergrad programs are the same ones that historically have the highest SAT ranges (well over half of the student body scoring 98%ile or higher on SAT when tests were required), and consequently list median MCAT scores of 516-518 among medical school applicants in a given year. They have upwards of 90% of applicants accepted to any med school and have "feeder" to Top Med schools reputation, many with over 25% of their admitted applicants landing at top-name research med schools. Med schools do use undergrad school (and program of study) as a factor in admissions, but it is not nearly as large as stem GPA and MCAT. The students at these top programs who use consultants are often below average at their school, 3.4-3.6 when the average undergrad GPA is 3.75-3.85 at elites. They often seek outside help because they do not like the advice of premed advising(do a postbacc or MS and get the stem grades up). Premed advising rarely gatekeeps at top schools anymore, as parents gave extreme pushback in the early 2010s. Parents involved in med apps is relatively new but it has massively affected undergraduate approach compared to pre-2000, when aggressive weeding out was common and expected.
Our advice is often the same as premed advising, but offers more hand-holding on the details of individualized plans. Top20ish students have much more success than 3.4-3.6 students from below T60 or so, but the MCATs are usually 512-514 rather than below 500. We get a lot of UVA students: they hang somewhere in the middle. The below-T60 group does not get into med school anywhere, nor do most of their 3.9 counterparts from the same undergrad, because they usually have 508-510. The age old question is do elite schools help with MCAT? Maybe. The science exams tend to be application of knowledge long-answer problem solving tests rather than almost entirely fill in the blank/multiple choice. I suspect that the more important difference is elite students are more likely to be students who have excellent study habits, are fast learners and excel on std tests.
Just my 2c, from years of application cycles.

Thank you for this, very interesting read. May I please ask a question on coursework. I read in a premed group where the med school advising and consensus is to not take AP credits and take intro bio and chem in college for pre-req for strong sGPA. At my child’s school this is really rare, and they place out of into and take upper level bio classes to satisfy and start in orgo 1 spring of freshman year. I know the prestige is one issue, but is rigor factor in at all when comparing sGPA’s? As that is also going to be a difference among schools I’d think as to what courses are norms. Really appreciate if you have time to answer, I couldn’t ask in group or I’d get annihilated as all say to take the intro classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are any worth it for pre med. or are the top ones only worth it for the pipeline to wall street / finance? son looking for pre-med and just not sure if a top 20 school makes a difference?

We chose it, but most don’t due to cost and that’s very fair. No regrets, it’s opened doors to make a really compelling resume for med school. They are so shooting for a top med school also and there is correlation, some I’ll just say it’s that they’d be to students anywhere and have same result though.

MD who has a med admissions consulting firm on the side, and experience in top-5 med admissions committee, as does one of my partners.
The T20ish unis/T5 LACs or so is a significant leg up for top MD programs and MD admissions in general, though whether that is correlation or causation is murky. These schools are far overrepresented among T20 med school students. Consider though these elite undergrad programs are the same ones that historically have the highest SAT ranges (well over half of the student body scoring 98%ile or higher on SAT when tests were required), and consequently list median MCAT scores of 516-518 among medical school applicants in a given year. They have upwards of 90% of applicants accepted to any med school and have "feeder" to Top Med schools reputation, many with over 25% of their admitted applicants landing at top-name research med schools. Med schools do use undergrad school (and program of study) as a factor in admissions, but it is not nearly as large as stem GPA and MCAT. The students at these top programs who use consultants are often below average at their school, 3.4-3.6 when the average undergrad GPA is 3.75-3.85 at elites. They often seek outside help because they do not like the advice of premed advising(do a postbacc or MS and get the stem grades up). Premed advising rarely gatekeeps at top schools anymore, as parents gave extreme pushback in the early 2010s. Parents involved in med apps is relatively new but it has massively affected undergraduate approach compared to pre-2000, when aggressive weeding out was common and expected.
Our advice is often the same as premed advising, but offers more hand-holding on the details of individualized plans. Top20ish students have much more success than 3.4-3.6 students from below T60 or so, but the MCATs are usually 512-514 rather than below 500. We get a lot of UVA students: they hang somewhere in the middle. The below-T60 group does not get into med school anywhere, nor do most of their 3.9 counterparts from the same undergrad, because they usually have 508-510. The age old question is do elite schools help with MCAT? Maybe. The science exams tend to be application of knowledge long-answer problem solving tests rather than almost entirely fill in the blank/multiple choice. I suspect that the more important difference is elite students are more likely to be students who have excellent study habits, are fast learners and excel on std tests.
Just my 2c, from years of application cycles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid 300K+ for my DS to graduate from Princeton in May 2024, and he is still looking for a job. YMMV.

Job market is awful right now. I feel for any recent grad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid 300K+ for my DS to graduate from Princeton in May 2024, and he is still looking for a job. YMMV.

That is difficult. On the other hand, you might have had a lot of "what-ifs" if you hadn't sent him there. I know I would.

I wish your DS luck and hope he is able to find something good.

Anonymous wrote:Hot take: none. Zero.

Go to the best in-state college you can afford.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People that have saved 400,000 for their child's education don't force or encourage their kid to go to a cheaper school. They let their kid pick the school that they want to attend.

This is us. One kid has some learning challenges and would do great at a small liberal arts school with small class sizes where they can play their sport at the D3 level. Getting through college will be hard enough; grad school isn't happening. So, if we need to use their "fully funded" 529 plan to pay for a small but expensive liberal arts school that is not highly ranked, fine. I'm glad we can. We have another kid who is super bright and motivated and says they want to attend medical school, so we might encourage them to be more selective and cost-conscious so they have some money to contribute toward medical school.

Anonymous wrote:We paid 300K+ for my DS to graduate from Princeton in May 2024, and he is still looking for a job. YMMV.

Anonymous wrote:We paid 300K+ for my DS to graduate from Princeton in May 2024, and he is still looking for a job. YMMV.

Anonymous wrote:People that have saved 400,000 for their child's education don't force or encourage their kid to go to a cheaper school. They let their kid pick the school that they want to attend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid 300K+ for my DS to graduate from Princeton in May 2024, and he is still looking for a job. YMMV.

Job market is awful right now. I feel for any recent grad.

Anonymous wrote:We paid 300K+ for my DS to graduate from Princeton in May 2024, and he is still looking for a job. YMMV.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If rich can afford it, it's "worth" it. If it was affordable at $200,000/year, would be "worth" it.

As a practical matter, paying $91,000 for only 5 classes per semester seems steep. High schools spend $19,000 per student. Even if universities spent triple the salaries, that would be $57,000/year. Plus public schools don't have endowments. I guess universities spend big bucks on other things, esthetics, events, speakers, research.

High schools have limited offerings and of course you can't really major in anything. They also don't need endowments because they are provided all the funding that has been agreed for the upcoming current school year. That said, many public schools in wealthy areas have outside PTA-type organizations that raise a decent amount of $$$s.

If college basically only offered Math, Western History, English and General Science (i.e., no real depth in any of the sciences like HS)...with a narrow smattering of electives...then yes, one would think they would spend a ton less and cost less.

Finally, many high schools have fairly small physical plants. You do see some private schools with sprawling campuses like college...but they are private. Of course, those private / boarding schools, no surprise, charge anywhere from $60k - $90k per year.