Anonymous
03/18/2025 12:23
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
How would they get more than 10 IB classes if the diploma programs is only 6? Did they already take some AP classes freshman’s sophomore? I’d be curious which ones.
The IB diploma is way more than 6 classes. 6 exams, maybe (each over 3 days) but it’s 2 math courses just to get to the one exam, and is the same in many of the subjects. If you are an IB candidate you are generally taking 6 IB classes junior year, and 6 more senior year.
I see, you count IB HL as two classes, but it’s only one exam, so for example IB math HL is two years of classes even if it’s the same as AP calculus BC, which is only one year of classes. So three HLs is 6 classes, plus 3 SLs, that’s a total of 9. Do you count ToK as the 10th?
Can someone give an example of courses for a typical student in the IB diploma program?
Here is Robinson's example path:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OOg0DlRcYdgafcpPBmzKwNBVfncWYUiv/view
Freshman/Sophomore year is a typical mix of honors and regular classes, though a few IB sequences can be started early if a student is ahead in math or wants to do both Chemistry and Physics at the IB level.
Junior year:
IB English Literature 1
IB Foreign Language 1
IB History 1
IB Science 1
IB Math 1
IB Theory of Knowledge
IB Elective or regular elective
Senior year:
IB English Lit 2 (SL or HL)
IB Foreign language 2 (SL or HL)
IB History of the Americas (HL) or IB Geography (SL)
IB Science 2 (SL or HL)
IB Math 2 (SL or HL)
IB Elective year 2 (HL) or 1 year IB Elective (SL)
You test after your year 2 HL or SL course, so no tests junior year (since those are generally year 1) for most and a LOT of 2-3 day exams senior year. You need 3 or 4 HL exams and 2 or 3 SL exams, with a certain number of points earned on all. Plus each of those year 2 classes requires a paper (with a certain minimum score), PLUS the whole program requires an "extended essay" (with a certain minimum score).
It's a lot. The AP criteria to be an "AP scholar" is much less, which is why I think there is so much disappointment at the low number of IB diplomas awarded, but it's an apples and oranges comparison. To get the top AP award, you just need to pass 5 exams. You can self study for the easier courses, you can get a C in the class, blow off the final, and pass the exam, etc. In IB, you must pass the class, the test, and the paper to get "credit" for the diploma.
The grading and assignment style is one of the reasons I dislike the IB program. It feels a lot like busywork and it is needlessly difficult. For math and sciences some of the assignments are even counterproductive, like writing a 4 pages of math essays, definitely busy work, and not relevant to how students are graded in college. At the end of the day the IB students don’t necessarily have a better understanding of the material than AP students. Taking AP Calculus BC after IB Math HL Analysis is not a good idea, too many missing topics and not enough depth.
Anonymous
03/17/2025 16:42
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
How would they get more than 10 IB classes if the diploma programs is only 6? Did they already take some AP classes freshman’s sophomore? I’d be curious which ones.
The IB diploma is way more than 6 classes. 6 exams, maybe (each over 3 days) but it’s 2 math courses just to get to the one exam, and is the same in many of the subjects. If you are an IB candidate you are generally taking 6 IB classes junior year, and 6 more senior year.
I see, you count IB HL as two classes, but it’s only one exam, so for example IB math HL is two years of classes even if it’s the same as AP calculus BC, which is only one year of classes. So three HLs is 6 classes, plus 3 SLs, that’s a total of 9. Do you count ToK as the 10th?
Can someone give an example of courses for a typical student in the IB diploma program?
Here is Robinson's example path:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OOg0DlRcYdgafcpPBmzKwNBVfncWYUiv/view
Freshman/Sophomore year is a typical mix of honors and regular classes, though a few IB sequences can be started early if a student is ahead in math or wants to do both Chemistry and Physics at the IB level.
Junior year:
IB English Literature 1
IB Foreign Language 1
IB History 1
IB Science 1
IB Math 1
IB Theory of Knowledge
IB Elective or regular elective
Senior year:
IB English Lit 2 (SL or HL)
IB Foreign language 2 (SL or HL)
IB History of the Americas (HL) or IB Geography (SL)
IB Science 2 (SL or HL)
IB Math 2 (SL or HL)
IB Elective year 2 (HL) or 1 year IB Elective (SL)
You test after your year 2 HL or SL course, so no tests junior year (since those are generally year 1) for most and a LOT of 2-3 day exams senior year. You need 3 or 4 HL exams and 2 or 3 SL exams, with a certain number of points earned on all. Plus each of those year 2 classes requires a paper (with a certain minimum score), PLUS the whole program requires an "extended essay" (with a certain minimum score).
It's a lot. The AP criteria to be an "AP scholar" is much less, which is why I think there is so much disappointment at the low number of IB diplomas awarded, but it's an apples and oranges comparison. To get the top AP award, you just need to pass 5 exams. You can self study for the easier courses, you can get a C in the class, blow off the final, and pass the exam, etc. In IB, you must pass the class, the test, and the paper to get "credit" for the diploma.
Is the IB elective art? I thought that was one of the 6 areas you need to choose.
If you can only do 4 HLs, how does that compare to the AP path? Normally I’ve been told that in 11th and 12th you can take AP English Composition and AP English Literature then for math Calculus BC and Statistics so that’s already 4, just English and Math. For sciences you can take AP Chemistry in 11th and AP Physics C after calculus. For taking both IB chemistry and Physics, can it be done at HL level in both, and how early to start?
It just seems the IB system is needlessly complicated, and in the end you can’t take as many advanced classes as AP. I’ve been told SL classes don’t count as advanced for college credit. Looked up the diploma program for AP, it’s just any three AP exams plus AP seminar and AP research. I’d be interested to know how colleges look at IB vs AP diploma programs, and if they are considered equivalent.
Anonymous
03/17/2025 15:34
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
How would they get more than 10 IB classes if the diploma programs is only 6? Did they already take some AP classes freshman’s sophomore? I’d be curious which ones.
The IB diploma is way more than 6 classes. 6 exams, maybe (each over 3 days) but it’s 2 math courses just to get to the one exam, and is the same in many of the subjects. If you are an IB candidate you are generally taking 6 IB classes junior year, and 6 more senior year.
I see, you count IB HL as two classes, but it’s only one exam, so for example IB math HL is two years of classes even if it’s the same as AP calculus BC, which is only one year of classes. So three HLs is 6 classes, plus 3 SLs, that’s a total of 9. Do you count ToK as the 10th?
Can someone give an example of courses for a typical student in the IB diploma program?
This is from Marshall's website: https://marshallhs.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/inline-files/RecommendedSequenceofHonorsandIBCourses.pdf
Anonymous
03/17/2025 15:33
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
How would they get more than 10 IB classes if the diploma programs is only 6? Did they already take some AP classes freshman’s sophomore? I’d be curious which ones.
The IB diploma is way more than 6 classes. 6 exams, maybe (each over 3 days) but it’s 2 math courses just to get to the one exam, and is the same in many of the subjects. If you are an IB candidate you are generally taking 6 IB classes junior year, and 6 more senior year.
I see, you count IB HL as two classes, but it’s only one exam, so for example IB math HL is two years of classes even if it’s the same as AP calculus BC, which is only one year of classes. So three HLs is 6 classes, plus 3 SLs, that’s a total of 9. Do you count ToK as the 10th?
Can someone give an example of courses for a typical student in the IB diploma program?
Here is Robinson's example path:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OOg0DlRcYdgafcpPBmzKwNBVfncWYUiv/view
Freshman/Sophomore year is a typical mix of honors and regular classes, though a few IB sequences can be started early if a student is ahead in math or wants to do both Chemistry and Physics at the IB level.
Junior year:
IB English Literature 1
IB Foreign Language 1
IB History 1
IB Science 1
IB Math 1
IB Theory of Knowledge
IB Elective or regular elective
Senior year:
IB English Lit 2 (SL or HL)
IB Foreign language 2 (SL or HL)
IB History of the Americas (HL) or IB Geography (SL)
IB Science 2 (SL or HL)
IB Math 2 (SL or HL)
IB Elective year 2 (HL) or 1 year IB Elective (SL)
You test after your year 2 HL or SL course, so no tests junior year (since those are generally year 1) for most and a LOT of 2-3 day exams senior year. You need 3 or 4 HL exams and 2 or 3 SL exams, with a certain number of points earned on all. Plus each of those year 2 classes requires a paper (with a certain minimum score), PLUS the whole program requires an "extended essay" (with a certain minimum score).
It's a lot. The AP criteria to be an "AP scholar" is much less, which is why I think there is so much disappointment at the low number of IB diplomas awarded, but it's an apples and oranges comparison. To get the top AP award, you just need to pass 5 exams. You can self study for the easier courses, you can get a C in the class, blow off the final, and pass the exam, etc. In IB, you must pass the class, the test, and the paper to get "credit" for the diploma.
Anonymous
03/17/2025 15:18
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
AP is the better choice for more kids and if they are planning to redistrict it should be a no-brainer to convert the IB schools back to AP. More flexible, still better known to colleges, and less BS about creating “global citizens.”
Anonymous
03/17/2025 15:00
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
3-4 HL classes vs 0-15 AP classes? Not exactly a good substitute.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No idea why these IB boosters keep saying those who strongly prefer AP must not be familiar with IB. A lot of us either have first-hand experience with IB or did our homework. IB is a niche program not tailored to the needs of American students.
And it’s obvious from the fact that the top schools in FCPS are AP and that FCPS ceased converting AP schools to IB over a decade ago that the IB implementation in FCPS has been a failure. It would be far more sensible to convert the IB schools back to AP.
It’s obvious also from IB classes getting less college credit compared to AP ones. IB SL classes are a joke, same as Theory of knowledge and CAS.
Why are SL classes a joke? Are they not in depth? What is your experience with them? Not arguing, trying to understand IB better.
IB SL classes generally don’t get any college credit. So if you’re set on taking an advanced class a la carte, it makes most sense to take the AP class instead.
Or take IB HL (higher level) classes. AP isn’t your only option for college credit.
Anonymous
03/17/2025 14:54
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Don't you have software for making master schedules?Anonymous wrote:Robinson employee: I think most staff would be supportive of switching to AP, but the demand has to come from parents. Grading IAs is miserable (requires sub days), creating IB rubrics is a time suck, and creating a master schedule that supports so many different versions of any given course is a beast. Year 1, SL II, HL II…every year it’s a nightmare of one off classes.
I wish I knew how to get change going.
Anonymous
03/17/2025 11:19
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
How would they get more than 10 IB classes if the diploma programs is only 6? Did they already take some AP classes freshman’s sophomore? I’d be curious which ones.
The IB diploma is way more than 6 classes. 6 exams, maybe (each over 3 days) but it’s 2 math courses just to get to the one exam, and is the same in many of the subjects. If you are an IB candidate you are generally taking 6 IB classes junior year, and 6 more senior year.
I see, you count IB HL as two classes, but it’s only one exam, so for example IB math HL is two years of classes even if it’s the same as AP calculus BC, which is only one year of classes. So three HLs is 6 classes, plus 3 SLs, that’s a total of 9. Do you count ToK as the 10th?
Can someone give an example of courses for a typical student in the IB diploma program?
Anonymous
03/16/2025 21:48
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Robinson employee: I think most staff would be supportive of switching to AP, but the demand has to come from parents. Grading IAs is miserable (requires sub days), creating IB rubrics is a time suck, and creating a master schedule that supports so many different versions of any given course is a beast. Year 1, SL II, HL II…every year it’s a nightmare of one off classes.
I wish I knew how to get change going.
I wish I knew how to get change going.
Anonymous
03/16/2025 21:43
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
How would they get more than 10 IB classes if the diploma programs is only 6? Did they already take some AP classes freshman’s sophomore? I’d be curious which ones.
The IB diploma is way more than 6 classes. 6 exams, maybe (each over 3 days) but it’s 2 math courses just to get to the one exam, and is the same in many of the subjects. If you are an IB candidate you are generally taking 6 IB classes junior year, and 6 more senior year.
Anonymous
03/16/2025 19:43
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
How would they get more than 10 IB classes if the diploma programs is only 6? Did they already take some AP classes freshman’s sophomore? I’d be curious which
If AP were started next year, kids could easily get 10+ AP or IB credits. Plenty have three by the end of 10th. Also, most IB classes are two year sequences that count as 2 IB classes, one in junior (IB HL 1) and 1 in senior year (IB HL 2). Some SLs are 1 year.
Anonymous
03/16/2025 18:57
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
How would they get more than 10 IB classes if the diploma programs is only 6? Did they already take some AP classes freshman’s sophomore? I’d be curious which ones.
Anonymous
03/16/2025 16:09
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Another Robinson IB parent here. My child will start the diploma next year, but I would have no issue with Robinson switching to AP today. My child would probably still end up with more than 10 IB/APs. Just keep IB for the rising seniors.
Anonymous
03/16/2025 13:48
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Robinson parent. While parents I know, myself included, are happy with the school overall and wouldn’t transfer our kids, I think most of us would prefer AP for the school over IB. There would be a couple of messy years to grandfather in IB if there were a switch (for kids to finish out diplomas, finish second year of two-year courses). But I don’t think a switch would be that disruptive given most kids don’t begin IB classes until junior year.
Also a Robinson parent. Totally agree. Why haven't we made this happen??
Some Lewis (Lee at the time) parents tried some time ago to get the county to switch back to AP and they did manage to get some AP classes. But the county absolutely refused to budge on IB overall. And that is a school with much less IB success than Robinson.
So unless you get a massive parent movement together to fight for AP, you are not likely to get the county to budge at Robinson (one of the more successful IB programs).
Most parents aren’t savvy enough to understand the differences, and there’s the inertia of going with what is offered. The small percentage of parents that care the most, are involved, and take the initiative to change schools, overwhelmingly vote with their feet and switch from IB to AP schools.
Anonymous
03/13/2025 17:04
Subject: Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Robinson parent. While parents I know, myself included, are happy with the school overall and wouldn’t transfer our kids, I think most of us would prefer AP for the school over IB. There would be a couple of messy years to grandfather in IB if there were a switch (for kids to finish out diplomas, finish second year of two-year courses). But I don’t think a switch would be that disruptive given most kids don’t begin IB classes until junior year.
Also a Robinson parent. Totally agree. Why haven't we made this happen??
Some Lewis (Lee at the time) parents tried some time ago to get the county to switch back to AP and they did manage to get some AP classes. But the county absolutely refused to budge on IB overall. And that is a school with much less IB success than Robinson.
So unless you get a massive parent movement together to fight for AP, you are not likely to get the county to budge at Robinson (one of the more successful IB programs).