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Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.

I was asking about “believers”.

How would you describe the tone of their posts?

As reflected in the observation that they usually just speak for themselves or their specific faith tradition, they have diverse tones. I am not comfortable with biblical literalism, proselytization or evangelism and don’t resonate with dogmatic takes from either religious people or atheists. I just see less less overarching dogma from the religious posters in this forum.

Dogma can be both secular and religious. The Latin word dogma means “philosophical tenet” derived from Ancient Greek (dógma, “opinion, tenet”).

I was curious if you were going to provide an objective observation. Guess not. You can't seem to respond without finding a way to trash atheists.

There are bible literalists pushing dogma. There absolutely is overarching dogma re: Christianity. And there are disrespectful believers with not an ounce of nuance.

DP. What would constitute an "objective observation" in this case? I've read PP to be saying that atheists on this forum (whom they differentiate from atheists IRL) are more dogmatic overall than religious posters, who they see as offering more variety of religious beliefs and tone of the comments. PP said they see "less overarching dogma from religious posters" which doesn't mean there isn't any, just that it appears less monolithic than atheists here. Did you want them to start quoting other threads? I'm not sure what else you're looking for.

Objectively sharing the negative behaviors of believers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this entire thread, and the only part I see atheists speaking for all atheists is stating that atheists believe in science rather than fairy tales.

It is disingenuous to say that atheists in this thread (or this forum) try to speak for all atheists. Just seems like another way the religious folk try to beat down anyone who doesnt believe like them - "othering" atheists. Annoying and transparent.

The bolded is terribly reductive. There are billions of people who believe in (at a minimum) hundreds of different religious sects on this planet. They can't all be the same - it's not possible.

Many religious people do the same "othering" with other religions. Religions tend to be very tribal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this entire thread, and the only part I see atheists speaking for all atheists is stating that atheists believe in science rather than fairy tales.

It is disingenuous to say that atheists in this thread (or this forum) try to speak for all atheists. Just seems like another way the religious folk try to beat down anyone who doesnt believe like them - "othering" atheists. Annoying and transparent.

Science and religion are not diametrically opposed. It's not a "science rather than religion" dichotomy and setting it up as such shows a lack of understanding of religion.

They just don't exist in the same space at all. One is based on reality and the other in supernatural forces.

Religion has been used to explain scientific phenomena for millennia. As we make more scientific discoveries, the need for religion becomes smaller.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this entire thread, and the only part I see atheists speaking for all atheists is stating that atheists believe in science rather than fairy tales.

It is disingenuous to say that atheists in this thread (or this forum) try to speak for all atheists. Just seems like another way the religious folk try to beat down anyone who doesnt believe like them - "othering" atheists. Annoying and transparent.

The bolded is terribly reductive. There are billions of people who believe in (at a minimum) hundreds of different religious sects on this planet. They can't all be the same - it's not possible.

When they say "religious" they mean "fundamentalist evangelical Christian." There aren't other religions or, if there are, they also happen to believe in a literal interpretation of the Christian Bible.

Anonymous wrote:I've read this entire thread, and the only part I see atheists speaking for all atheists is stating that atheists believe in science rather than fairy tales.

It is disingenuous to say that atheists in this thread (or this forum) try to speak for all atheists. Just seems like another way the religious folk try to beat down anyone who doesnt believe like them - "othering" atheists. Annoying and transparent.

Science and religion are not diametrically opposed. It's not a "science rather than religion" dichotomy and setting it up as such shows a lack of understanding of religion.

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Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.

I was asking about “believers”.

How would you describe the tone of their posts?

As reflected in the observation that they usually just speak for themselves or their specific faith tradition, they have diverse tones. I am not comfortable with biblical literalism, proselytization or evangelism and don’t resonate with dogmatic takes from either religious people or atheists. I just see less less overarching dogma from the religious posters in this forum.

Dogma can be both secular and religious. The Latin word dogma means “philosophical tenet” derived from Ancient Greek (dógma, “opinion, tenet”).

I was curious if you were going to provide an objective observation. Guess not. You can't seem to respond without finding a way to trash atheists.

There are bible literalists pushing dogma. There absolutely is overarching dogma re: Christianity. And there are disrespectful believers with not an ounce of nuance.

DP. What would constitute an "objective observation" in this case? I've read PP to be saying that atheists on this forum (whom they differentiate from atheists IRL) are more dogmatic overall than religious posters, who they see as offering more variety of religious beliefs and tone of the comments. PP said they see "less overarching dogma from religious posters" which doesn't mean there isn't any, just that it appears less monolithic than atheists here. Did you want them to start quoting other threads? I'm not sure what else you're looking for.

Anonymous wrote:I've read this entire thread, and the only part I see atheists speaking for all atheists is stating that atheists believe in science rather than fairy tales.

It is disingenuous to say that atheists in this thread (or this forum) try to speak for all atheists. Just seems like another way the religious folk try to beat down anyone who doesnt believe like them - "othering" atheists. Annoying and transparent.

The bolded is terribly reductive. There are billions of people who believe in (at a minimum) hundreds of different religious sects on this planet. They can't all be the same - it's not possible.

I've read this entire thread, and the only part I see atheists speaking for all atheists is stating that atheists believe in science rather than fairy tales.

It is disingenuous to say that atheists in this thread (or this forum) try to speak for all atheists. Just seems like another way the religious folk try to beat down anyone who doesnt believe like them - "othering" atheists. Annoying and transparent.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.

I was asking about “believers”.

How would you describe the tone of their posts?

As reflected in the observation that they usually just speak for themselves or their specific faith tradition, they have diverse tones. I am not comfortable with biblical literalism, proselytization or evangelism and don’t resonate with dogmatic takes from either religious people or atheists. I just see less less overarching dogma from the religious posters in this forum.

Dogma can be both secular and religious. The Latin word dogma means “philosophical tenet” derived from Ancient Greek (dógma, “opinion, tenet”).

I was curious if you were going to provide an objective observation. Guess not. You can't seem to respond without finding a way to trash atheists.

There are bible literalists pushing dogma. There absolutely is overarching dogma re: Christianity. And there are disrespectful believers with not an ounce of nuance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.

I was asking about “believers”.

How would you describe the tone of their posts?

As reflected in the observation that they usually just speak for themselves or their specific faith tradition, they have diverse tones. I am not comfortable with biblical literalism, proselytization or evangelism and don’t resonate with dogmatic takes from either religious people or atheists. I just see less less overarching dogma from the religious posters in this forum.

Dogma can be both secular and religious. The Latin word dogma means “philosophical tenet” derived from Ancient Greek (dógma, “opinion, tenet”).

Just look at the diversity of "believer" opinions in the "submit to your husbands" thread. Yes, there are some believers over there who are arguing that traditional marriage is good, but many of the religious posters there have explained that:
-there are different interpretations of the verse that are less trad-wife-y
-the verse is part of the liturgy of their wedding day, but doesn't actually play a part in their marriage (goes in one ear and out the other for the couple at the altar)
-Paul is problematic
-Most Christians are not fundamentalists
-the context of the time in which Jesus lived and the Gospels were written matters
-the full verse matters

The religious posters on that thread are usually identifying their specific religion. It's notable then, that OP didn't identify what denomination of Christianity (since it's from Paul, it must have been a Christian wedding) the wedding was.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.

Lol, do you not see the irony of your post?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.

I was asking about “believers”.

How would you describe the tone of their posts?

As reflected in the observation that they usually just speak for themselves or their specific faith tradition, they have diverse tones. I am not comfortable with biblical literalism, proselytization or evangelism and don’t resonate with dogmatic takes from either religious people or atheists. I just see less less overarching dogma from the religious posters in this forum.

Dogma can be both secular and religious. The Latin word dogma means “philosophical tenet” derived from Ancient Greek (dógma, “opinion, tenet”).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.

I was asking about “believers”.

How would you describe the tone of their posts?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.

Yes, this is what I've been saying all along! Religious posters usually identify themselves by their specific religion. Even if/when they speak for their entire religion, they're only speaking as a Catholic or a Unitarian Universalist, and not for everyone who is "religious." Atheist posters speak for all atheists, even though I know lots of atheists in real life who aren't so angry and judgmental and ignorant about world religions. I do think it's just a few loud atheists here giving everyone else a bad name.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The atheists who post here are usually far more close minded and tedious than the atheists I know in real life. They engage in patronizing, gross oversimplifications and reductive thinking that actually puts me off atheism. I remain open to agnosticism since we can’t prove metaphysical beliefs one way or the other.

You've expressed your opinion, and now I'll express mine: I don't care if your characterization of anything anyone says here "puts you off atheism". I hope no one is religious or non-religious because they were "put off" by someone. I think being put off by someone is a terrible reason for believing or not believing.

We know a tree by the fruits it bears.

I pay a lot of attention to character. Not a religious literalist and don’t resonate with dogmatism in either religion or atheism.

There's no dogmatism in atheism because there's no dogma. It's simply lack of belief in theism (any religion).

.

Many of the atheists who post here are extremely dogmatic, patronizing and unnecessarily antagonistic.

If you are a religious person who is sure you are right, despite total lack of evidence and lots of faith, then simply ignore anyone who doesn't see things your way.

I have good friends and family members IRL who are atheists. We have wonderful relationships based on mutual respect.

Many atheists who post in this forum are extremely patronizing and disrespectful with a disdain for nuance.

How would you describe the "believers" who post often on this forum?

One glaring difference I have noticed is that a majority of religious posters speak only for themselves and their path to religion while many atheist posters appear to speak for not only for themselves, but for all of atheism and the many different kinds of religious beliefs and experiences. Further religion as a whole is conflated with evangelism and biblical literalists.

This could be just a few obsessed atheists doing other atheists a disservice though.